Sounds like a newbie question, but really isn't!

[homerpez]

Simple/not so simple one... I consider myself a veteran but this one has me stumped...

If I capture 480x480 (square, no apsect ratio) from an NTSC source, which INPUT aspect ratio should I apply to it in TMPGEnc? 4:3 Display? Or, 4:3 NTSC 525-line?

To add to the complication, I'm going from Huffy AVI (480x480) to TMPGEnc to resize/source range, then VFAPI-frameserving to CCE.

End result? Looks fine on computer, but something just "isn't right" on my good ol' NTSC TV. Mostly not noticable, but people appear somewhat wider...

TMPGEnc generates 4:3 Display OUTPUT, without choice for TV lines. I also thought CCE made 4:3 output that looked fine on a TV. Apparently I have been misled!

Anyone have a difinitive answer? Does this mean I have to do all my DVD's at "16:9 525-line NTSC" if I'm aiming for TV as the playback device?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2002-01-14 22:27:48 ]</font>

[kinneera]

You've already answered your own question...

Yes, it should be 4:3 (525 line). Not quite sure what the generic 4:3 does, but I would guess it uses 1:1 pixels rather than TV-form pixels, which would explain the slight inconsistency you describe.

I believe for DVDs, you want your Source Aspect ratio to be 16:9, but keep the ouput 4:3 (525 line) and use Preserve Aspect Ratio (assuming you want to keep the letterboxing). However, some DVDs are already encoded into the 4:3 frame (DVD2AVI should tell you), in which case source and output aspect ratio should be the same.

[Truman]

Source aspect ratio 1:1(VGA).

[Truman]

avi pixel aspect ratio is 1:1
NTSC 525 line pixel aspect ratio is 10:11
NTSC generatic 4:3 pixel aspect ratio is 8:9
More details here:
http://toolbox.sgi.com/TasteOfDT/documents/video/lurker/pixelaspect.html

[homerpez]

Now I'm really confused...

kineera... with yours, it makes sense, except for the part about DVD's... for them, it's OK to leave it simple "Display" is that's what it is?

Truman... with yours... if I pick 1:1 Source aspect, it plasters a box-shaped video onto a 4:3 Display field, right in the middle... not the effect I'm going for.

What my difficulty is with the INPUT ONLY... because output size is not an option! (Only 4:3 DISPLAY is visible, not 4:3 525-line). And CCE does whatever's fed into it, so I would assume I have to correct this all in TMPGEnc...

Running tests... please wait...


See! This is why this isn't a "newbie" question, with a "textbook" answer!

---------------------------------------------->

Capture with V-Dub, 480x480, interlaced, NTSC

1:1 Source Aspect = Box, plastered in middle of 480x480 res 4:3 Display frame.

4:3 525-line NTSC = Box, plastered in middle of 480x480 res 4:3 Display frame. But this one is slightly SKINNIER than the 1:1 test. Why? Who knows.

4:3 Display = Displays just fine on PC, but ever-so-slightly wider on TV!

According to these tests, there is no solution!

Maybe I'm just out of luck here... I'll have to watch people with fat heads...

The last, and only thing, I can think of, is...

Does CCE convert everything to 4:3 aspect by default? Then I could leave source as 1:1, and output as 1:1... maybe?

[kinneera]

I think this is what you want to do:

Since you are capturing at 480x480 (NTSC video, I presume), you will want to set the source aspect ratio in TMPGEnc to 4:3 525 line. TMPGEnc is a little inconsistent in this regard, as 1:1 seems to make more sense, but in reality is only intended for VGA inputs such as Divx and computer-rendered video. The key is that the video being captured is supposed to be 4:3, and aspect ratio is technically independent of resolution. Now, here's the critical part: set the arrange method to "full screen" WITHOUT preserve aspect ratio! This should resolve the "box" issue you describe.

Then you want to set the output aspect ratio as 4:3 (525 line) if MPEG1, and regular 4:3 if MPEG2. (This inconsistency exists because DAR settings were revised for MPEG2 to simplify encoding and leave more discretion to the decoder to handle the video system it is operating in). Assuming both input (capture) and output are intended to be fullscreen, this should work for you. If DVD rips (ie. widescreen) are involved, or widescreen/fullscreen conversions, it gets a little more complicated.

As for the pixelform, refer to Truman's information, as he clearly knows more than I in that regard. The short of it though, is that non CG-generated video will always look slightly squeezed on your computer screen, since the pixelform is different. The raw 480x480 capture will probably look very squeezed, as no DAR is associated with AVIs.

CCE does not do any resizing (unless you enable DVD-compatibility, in which case it resizes to 720x480).

[homerpez]

I almost forgot about this thread, glad I searched!

I was thinking this might be a way...

I never had any problems before with this, with DVD's or even other captures... at least none I noticed. Too many caps I'm doing are cartoons, and it's not exactly the best gauge of stretching... I only noticed this during a live-action segment of one of them...

So 4:3 (525-line) would be the input, I will NOT preserve source aspect ratio, I will output to 4:3 Display and all is well with the world...

Thanks for the reply back on this one, this one little thing was driving me bonkers...