Interlaced or not?

[vertical]

Hi,

Could you please advise whether the image (it is a movie) is interlaced or not? Here is a pic from VDM (zoomed 300%):



If it is interlaced, how can I deinterlace it?

Thank you!

[FulciLives]

It sure looks interlaced.

But the real question should be ... do I do an IVTC or do I de-interlace?

But before that you have to give us more information.

1.) What is the source. A DVD Rip or a capture of some sort and what video format etc.
2.) What format do you want to put it in?
3.) It is NTSC or PAL?

Also I suggest you go to http://www.rapidshare.com/ and upload a short video sample there. The file size can be up to 100MB so make it at least 5 - 10 seconds long or so.

You will get more and better advice if we have an actual video sample as opposed to a still.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

Also I suggest you go to http://www.rapidshare.com/ and upload a short video sample there.

And make it an unprocessed source, straight from the DVD. 10-15 seconds will be enough. You can get the M2V from DGIndex, without sound, to cut down on the size a bit.

[vertical]

It is a DVD rip and it is PAL. I want to put it in NTSC as usually.

Here is the link to upload: http://rapidshare.com/files/5401120/Sample1.demuxed.m2v.html

[jagabo]

It's interlaced but from a 25 fps progressive source encoded with the fields out of phase. The AVISynth Telecide() filter can easily fix it.

[FulciLives]

You need to downloaded the decomb filter for AviSynth. You can get that at the following website:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

Here is the script you would to use:

LoadPlugin("C:\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\decomb.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Sample1.demuxed.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
Telecide()
LanczosResize(720,480)
Crop(12,70,-4,-54)
AddBorders(8,62,8,62)

This outputs a 720x480 resolution 16x9 WS NTSC video at 25fps (progressive) ... use DGPulldown to do the 25fps ---> 29.970fps option.

Good Luck !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

Guys, thank you!

John, I tried to create my own script (without FitToDisc) before I saw your post. I've got the following:

LanczosResize(720,480)
crop(8,68,-8,-54)
AddBorders(8,68,8,54)

(I provide just major part - without Plugins)

Why crop should be 12 and -4 but not 8 as in yesterday example? Why the borders should be 62 but not jsut the size of original balck: 68/54?

And if I am not too annoying, Why is it so important to replace the "old" black with the "fresh" black?

Thank you!

[FulciLives]

Guys, thank you!

John, I tried to create my own script (without FitToDisc) before I saw your post. I've got the following:

LanczosResize(720,480)
crop(8,68,-8,-54)
AddBorders(8,68,8,54)

(I provide just major part - without Plugins)

Why crop should be 12 and -4 but not 8 as in yesterday example? Why the borders should be 62 but not jsut the size of original balck: 68/54?

And if I am not too annoying, Why is it so important to replace the "old" black with the "fresh" black?

Thank you!

You need to cut at least 10 if not 12 from the left hand side to completely remove the black. I like the keep the sides equal so I cut 4 from the right to make a total of 16 which is 8 on either side to center it. You could cut 12 on the left and replace it and leave it at that.

I get 68 on the top but that just barely does it ... I like to cut ALL the black so I usually go an extra 2 so that is how I got 70 and not 68. The bottom is 54 (52 doesn't really "cut it" all). When you add 70+54 you get 124 which is 62 on the top and bottom because again I am centering the image.

You replace the black because it was encoded once and you don't want to re-encode it and it's just black so you replace it with fresh black. Doesn't that make sense?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

It does. Thanks a lot!

Do I understand right that cropping slightly increases the picture quality as it decreases the picture area to be encoded?

I cannot believe that finally I created something close to a script -)

[FulciLives]

Here is what my image looks like with my script:

My script:



My script with resizing but no cropping/addborders:



See how the image from my script is centered?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Please note I kinda "screwed up" and didn't capture the exact same frame with both images although I think I am only a frame or two off.

[vertical]

John, thanks. I've got it.

I tried to make it exactly the way it was and it was wrong.

[vertical]

John, I've just noticed the new stuff:

AssumeTFF()
Telecide()

What is it for? Please, kindly advise.

And the most important question: how do we determine that "it's interlaced but from a 25 fps progressive source encoded with the fields out of phase"?

Thanks.

[manono]

Come on, man, read the manuals. From the Decomb Tutorial:

It is essential to set the field order properly for correct rendering. The field order is obtained from Avisynth and can be set using the AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() functions in your script before invoking Telecide().

So, with the latest version of Decomb, you should start with a TFF or BFF. Further reading:

First decide if your source clip is PAL. If it is, and if it has progressive content, you can almost invariably set guide=2 to use PAL pattern guidance.

and:

AviSource("your_clip.avi")#you use MPEG2Source, as it's from a DVD
AssumeTFF()
Telecide(guide=2)

It's all spelled out.

You have a movie. Movies aren't interlaced. If it appears to be interlaced, you have to figure out why, and undo it (without doing something stupid like just deinterlacing). One way is to separate the fields, or apply a SmartBobber like LeakKernelBob. If you do that, you'll find that each field is repeated once, 2:2 pulldown, and that's proof of the shifted fields. Ordinarily the fields are lined up like so (where cap letters=top field and small letters=bottom field):

A B C D E F
a b c d e f

When the fields are shifted you get:

A B C D E F
b c d e f g

and you see interlacing. Telecide by itself will set it straight again, will line up the fields properly again.

[vertical]

manono, thank you very much for the advice.

I would be happy to read the manual. But the problem is how do I know that it should be the manual for Decomb?

[manono]

What? Included in the Decomb package (also including Decomb.dll which has inside Telecide, Decimate, and FieldDeinterlace), are 3 really excellent manuals, DecombTutorial.html, DecombReferenceManual.html, and the DecombFAQ.html. Read them, memorize them, and maybe you'll be able to figure some of these things out for yourself, instead of all the time coming here for help. Also read the docs included in the DGMPGDec package.

[vertical]

manono, thank you. I really appreciate your assistance but please do not be so tough on me.

I have no background in the stuff and it is all new for me. I told you once: I am not a lazy guy but pretty often I am overwhelmed and confused with completely new information.

I am looking for reading manuals instead of bugging you and other guys but again how do I know that it is about Decomb if I did not understand the whole thing?

[manono]

...but again how do I know that it is about Decomb if I did not understand the whole thing?

To be able to use Telecide, you loaded the Decomb.dll, didn't you? Look, none of us, not I, not jagabo, not FulciLives, not guns1inger, not anyone around here, minds helping. All we ask is that you meet us half way. One way you do that is by reading everything you can get your hands on about the subject. The subject may be AviSynth, or encoding using various encoders, or the various tools you (we) use when working with DVD. All these tools come with manuals. Some are better than others. But Donald Graft (aka neuron2, developer of DGPulldown, the DGMPGDec package, Decomb, and many other filters and apps) is the best manual writer in the business, and you'll learn so much by just taking a look.

So once jagabo tells you what the problem is and that it can be fixed using Telecide, and once FulciLives gives you the script to do just that, but you don't understand what Telecide is or does, or how it fixes up your movie, a quick read of the manuals should enlighten you. It's a field matcher. It lines up fields correctly. It's often useful in straightening out PAL material. It's even more often used for NTSC movies as the first step of the 2-part Telecide/Decimate combination to perform an IVTC.

[vertical]

manono, thank you. I sure will and I do read but pretty often it is hard to understand for a person who never dealt with the stuff before.

"To be able to use Telecide..." - If I knew what "Telecide" is -)

I read whatever I find on the subject but I even did not realize that there is a manual for Decomb.dll, which I regret.