Firewire capturing

[Richard_G]

@ Richard_G

Just curious? Why do you not want to deter crime?

We do, it's just that we've found the best way to prevent someone committing a crime is to lock them up. Not only are they not in a position to do it again, but the potential loss of liberty tends to make others think twice about doing it.

Visible cameras simply make them move elsewhere, covert ones catch them where they think they are safe. It's the difference between crime prevention and crime detection.

[ZAPPER]

At edDV

I went into a BrandSmart for the first time a few weeks back and they had like ten different systems and IR LED cams and so on right there at the front door. Fairly cheep too, well maybe cheap enough for like a mom and pop business but not quite cheap enough for me to have walked out with one.

[SingSing]

There are a lot of smoke and mirror and wind in this post.

[edDV]

At edDV

I went into a BrandSmart for the first time a few weeks back and they had like ten different systems and IR LED cams and so on right there at the front door. Fairly cheep too, well maybe cheap enough for like a mom and pop business but not quite cheap enough for me to have walked out with one.

This is turning the corner from a storefront necessity to a consumer affordable growth market. Corporate solutions are far more sophisticated but still out of price reach.

[JohnnyMalaria]

My initial question was to have a list of camcoders that can give a video stream input to a pc. So far I have red all those "expert" opinions which I found pointless. The discussion will be pointless too if I get not a single camcorder model. I'm not asking your opinion about surveillance, or what is the best for setting up one cctv.

Thanks

You got an answer - any MiniDV camcorder with Firewire. We've asked additional questions to try to understand your needs other than "just a camcorder that streams video". But if that's your specification, then I suggest a trip to Argos, Comet etc and just buy the cheapest thing you find with a Firewire connection.

[MobilePower]

I think the term surveilance sidetracked this topic. I've been working on a similar setup to watch long term product testing. I've been weeks trying to compile the info needed. Why camcorders? I already have two and they both do 1394 out. No need to add a capture card to my PC. The optics on the camcorders are way more versatile than stationary security cameras which are typically only good for one thing once they are configured.

So far I've trialed our old Sony TRV-110 Digital 8 and our newer Sony HC90 miniDV dumping into plain old Windows Movie Maker. The 2.1 Mbps setting stores 14MB/min and looks great. I need to find a workaround for the TRV-110 going standby (will try no tape) but the HC90 seems to stay on okay for me. Here's the really large BUT:

SOFTWARE. I'm not going to be able to manage/edit/cut/etc a 24 hour (20 GB) file when it is done. This means I need something like WMM but will make cuts while capturing (as opposed to reduced resolution or on the fly, CPU hungry compression which means the original HQ video is gone). I'm going fishing for that killer app in this forum next. It, and one that would start capture based on in frame motion just might be out there...

There was a suggestion earlier about checking into "evidence admissable" requirements for video. Don't overlook that in case the crook has a good legal representative.

[edDV]

I think the term surveilance sidetracked this topic. I've been working on a similar setup to watch long term product testing. I've been weeks trying to compile the info needed. Why camcorders? I already have two and they both do 1394 out. No need to add a capture card to my PC. The optics on the camcorders are way more versatile than stationary security cameras which are typically only good for one thing once they are configured.

So far I've trialed our old Sony TRV-110 Digital 8 and our newer Sony HC90 miniDV dumping into plain old Windows Movie Maker. The 2.1 Mbps setting stores 14MB/min and looks great. I need to find a workaround for the TRV-110 going standby (will try no tape) but the HC90 seems to stay on okay for me. Here's the really large BUT:

SOFTWARE. I'm not going to be able to manage/edit/cut/etc a 24 hour (20 GB) file when it is done. This means I need something like WMM but will make cuts while capturing (as opposed to reduced resolution or on the fly, CPU hungry compression which means the original HQ video is gone). I'm going fishing for that killer app in this forum next. It, and one that would start capture based on in frame motion just might be out there...

There was a suggestion earlier about checking into requirements for video. Don't overlook that in case the crook has a good legal representative.

Not following fully but DV stream is ~13.5GB/hr (~320GB/day).

If you compress to wmv with Movie Maker the files are smaller but processing takes place and the trace to original is lost.

An email friend once asked me to help him prosecute drug activity in back of his house. He had video. I advised him to show the video to the police. Goal was to get police cams installed that can provide custody of evidence. A legal geek is needed here for clarification. Most of our lawyer following are patent attorneys not criminal.

That is a lame attempt at a lawyer joke.

[jmkeuning]

we've found the best way to prevent someone committing a crime is to lock them up. Not only are they not in a position to do it again, but the potential loss of liberty tends to make others think twice about doing it.

Visible cameras simply make them move elsewhere, covert ones catch them where they think they are safe. It's the difference between crime prevention and crime detection.

There was a suggestion earlier about checking into "evidence admissable" requirements for video. Don't overlook that in case the crook has a good legal representative.

I recommend a spring gun.

[InXess]

Personally I wouldn't use miniDV as they are not designed for long time operation, have poor weatherproofing and do not guarantee better performance then a good security cam. Check a new offering (not so new in fact ) from Microsoft - Live cam, they shoot 2 MP's video and take 5 MP's stills for less then 100 bucks. Never tried them but they supposedly have excellent optics as well as great imaging element. Webcam like this could do exactly what you want.

[Richard_G]

So far I've trialed our old Sony TRV-110 Digital 8 and our newer Sony HC90 miniDV dumping into plain old Windows Movie Maker. The 2.1 Mbps setting stores 14MB/min and looks great. I need to find a workaround for the TRV-110 going standby (will try no tape) but the HC90 seems to stay on okay for me. Here's the really large BUT:

SOFTWARE. I'm not going to be able to manage/edit/cut/etc a 24 hour (20 GB) file when it is done. This means I need something like WMM but will make cuts while capturing (as opposed to reduced resolution or on the fly, CPU hungry compression which means the original HQ video is gone). I'm going fishing for that killer app in this forum next. It, and one that would start capture based on in frame motion just might be out there...

There was a suggestion earlier about checking into "evidence admissable" requirements for video. Don't overlook that in case the crook has a good legal representative.

On the Sony Digital8 camcorders, leaving the tape compartment open stops them going into standby. Not having a tape in may do it as well but it depends on the actual model.

The best motion detection software we have found is Eyecopia. A 14 day free trial is available from www.eyecopia.com

As for the admissibility of any video in a prosecution, this is going to depend on the differing laws in different countries. In the UK, if the video is to be produced as evidence by a law enforcement officer of any kind, there needs to be continuity to show that the video has not been tampered with in any way. Using an automated, motion detection system only requires evidence to be produced to show that any timecode has been correctly set prior to the recording made and checked to confirm accuracy at the end of a session. The recorded video must be copied to writable media and sealed as evidence, prior to any other examination being carried out. If the video has been shot by a member of the public, it is simply produced by them (and referenced by a Section 9 witness statement) and it is then up to the court to decide if they are a trustworthy witness. In this case it is no different to someone stepping forward and simply telling a court what they saw. Only that a video is far more likely to be believed.