Field Operation in DGIndex

[SerbianBoss]

I read the manual but i didnt understant field operation.

1.Wen i have PAL interlaced,BFF,25 fps dvd, what field operation i should select(here is picture)


2. When i also have PAL,but progressive,TFF,25 fps dvd,what than field operation i should select(here is picture)


thanks

[manono]

Hi-

PAL people always select Honor Pulldown Flags.

[SerbianBoss]

Pal always select Honor pulldown flag evan if source is interlaced or progressive?

thanks

[manono]

Pal always select Honor pulldown flag evan if source is interlaced or progressive?

PAL people always select Honor Pulldown Flags.

[SerbianBoss]

One more thanks for answers.

I have one NTSC interlaced dvd. This is info from DGIndex:


What field operation should be used?

[manono]

Honor Pulldown Flags

[SerbianBoss]

thanks again for answers.

Just to aks one more

1. Now when i get d2v and ac3 files on desktop, i make two scipts:

First scipt is to make dvd(i try to make better dvd because original is bad)
So source is pal,interlaced and i want to "reauthor" dvd so to stay interlaced. I am using CCE for this:

LoadPlugin("fft3dfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Desktop\tst.d2v", cpu=0)
fft3dfilter(sigma=1.5,interlaced=true)

Is this proper way for that?

2. Whit same files, d2v and ac3 files now i want to make xvid(just to practise).
So i make this script and say is that correct or its not:

LoadPlugin("LeakKernelDeint.dll")
LoadPlugin("degrainmedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Desktop\tst.d2v", cpu=0)
LeakKernelDeint(Order=0,threshold=1,sharp=true)
DeGrainMedian (limitY=5,limitUV=7,mode=0,interlaced=true)
bicubicresize(512,384)

[manono]

1. I don't know, as I don't use the fft3dfilter.
2. That'll work. I don't use DeGrainMedian, so I rely on you getting the parameters correct. I'm not sure why you have an interlaced setting in DeGrainMedian, since you had just made it progressive with LeakKernelDeint. Maybe you know that bicubicresize(512,384) is equivalent to bicubicresize(512,384,0.33,0.33), which are pretty lousy settings, in my opinion. Much better, in my opinion, is bicubicresize(512,384,0,0.5) or 0.6. The docs say the default is good, but, personally, I think it blurs too much, is too much like bilinear resizing. To each his own, as long as you know.

And before you keep it interlaced, or go around deinterlacing it, you had better be really sure it's pure interlace, and not telecined film, which can be IVTC'd. Using that second script of yours, if it was originally film, every 5th frame will be a duplicate frame after the deinterlace.

[SerbianBoss]

In second script degrainmedian interlaced=true is my fault(typing error)

First script was that film stay in dvd interlaced source. For example i could use degrainmedian=interlaced true instead fft3d filter. First script is just to little correct source, so its stay in dvd format,thats was my goal. And this script load in CCE

2. Second scipt i make that from same source(PAL,interlaced,25fps) i make xvid using virtualdub.

How do i know that source is "pure" interlaced. I know that is interlaced(Power dvd say that is interlaced,dgindex sais that is interlaced). But when i make xvid from dvd source, i always deinterlaced,because for watching on computer. In most tutorials for making divx/xvid is prefare to deinterlance. So i deinterlanced source. IS this ok or no?

I working only with pal movies, does is important to telecined or not with pal movies.Sorry about this i dont understand telecine or decimate.

[manono]

How do i know that source is "pure" interlaced.

Every frame will be interlaced.

I know that is interlaced(Power dvd say that is interlaced,dgindex sais that is interlaced).

Means nothing. It'll say the same about hard telecined film (which can be IVTC'd). It'll say the same about most PAL movies on DVD (most of which aren't interlaced, and shouldn't be deinterlaced).

But when i make xvid from dvd source, i always deinterlaced,because for watching on computer.

Sure, it should be progressive, but if it can be IVTC'd, that's a much better way to make it progressive. I don't know if it can be IVTC'd. It's not my video. You're the one that has to figure it out. And if it's PAL, and doesn't need to be deinterlaced, don't deinterlace.

IS this ok or no?

Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, if you apply that second script to the video, and you see a duplicate frame in every 5 frames, you should have IVTC'd instead. Now, IVTC applies only to NTSC movies. Earlier you were asking about an NTSC movie. For PAL movies, if you see interlacing, then deinterlace. If you don't see it, don't deinterlace. Most PAL movies, no matter what DGIndex says, do not need to be deinterlaced.

[SerbianBoss]

Just questions for PAL dvds

Now, IVTC applies only to NTSC movies

So ITVC applies only to NTSC, what about just telecine? Does pal system include decimate or not?

For PAL movies, if you see interlacing, then deinterlace

Deinterlance if make divx? But if i want to reauthor than i make reinterlance script (to apply filters and than back to interlaced dvd) ?

If you don't see it, don't deinterlace

If pal movie is not interlaced its progressive. In that way i need just to resize.

[manono]

Does pal system include decimate or not?

No decimate in PAL, they're all 25fps, unless it's a silent film at a different framerate, or maybe sourced from 16mm at a lower framerate.

Deinterlance if make divx?

Yes, if it's interlaced and you want to make an AVI, then you deinterlace. For DVD you usually keep it interlaced.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing. You had mentioned an NTSC movie earlier, and I was trying to include NTSC in my comments.

[SerbianBoss]

So decimate dont use PAL,ok

Just to be sure. Does we use telecine in PAL dvds. Anf if use in which cases are use telecined?

[manono]

Well, I have seen hard telecine in PAL DVDs. For example, the PAL DVD of Die Büchse der Pandora:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018737/

is hard telecined from 20fps to 25fps. And some PAL DVDs go from film's 24fps to PAL's 25fps by hard telecining (a frame is added every second, in the form of 2 fields every second). In general, though, PAL DVDs are created by speeding up film from 24fps to 25fps, and aren't telecined.

[SerbianBoss]

So telecine is when 24fps go to 25 fps ?

How i can see in movie that is telecine, how to recognize ?

And if movie is telecine, which filter to apply?

thanks

[manono]

Well, it doesn't happen very often. But, in general, if your PAL movie shows interlacing, then you should investigate further. Applying a Smart Bobber such as LeakKernelBob will tell you if it was converted from 24fps to 25fps by blending. If you see blends in the fields, then you'll know, and then something like Restore24 can set it right again, by removing the blends and returning it to 24fps. If, after Smart Bobbing, every field is different, then you'll know that it's really interlaced. If, after Smart Bobbing, every field is repeated once, then you'll know it has shifted fields, and a simple Telecide(Guide=2) will set it straight. If, after Smart Bobbing, every field is repeated once, except every 12th pair, a field is repeated twice, you'll know that 24fps was converted to 25fps by telecining, and Telecide(Guide=2).Decimate(25) will bring it down to 24fps. In my opinion, deinterlacing a PAL movie (originally shot on film), even for AVI, is never necessary. There are other, better ways to make the frames progressive again.

So telecine is when 24fps go to 25 fps ?

Telecine is a term used for the transfer of film to a form suitable for televisions. I'm using telecining to mean converting the original or base framerate to the framerate needed for the DVD. It can be a hard telecine (the extra frames/fields are encoded into the video) or a soft telecine (where the pulldown flags do the job). It can mean 23.976->29.97fps or 19.98->29.97fps for NTSC, or 24->25fps or 20->25fps for PAL. Or countless other base framerates. The most common kind of telecine is applying 2:3 pulldown for 23.976->29.97fps, or encoding the same thing into the video. DGPulldown has made many other kinds of pulldown possible now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

[SerbianBoss]

Thanks for answers and sorry for my late respond.

I read at net about telecine process. And as you said its a process to transfer film to a form suitable for televisions. So telecine can be hard(its 25 fps for PAL) and soft(24 or 23.976 frames)

So, Pal dvd are using 2:3 pulldown method, or/ans 3:2 pal method can be used to convert 24 fps to 25 fps, right?

Applying a Smart Bobber such as LeakKernelBob will tell you if it was converted from 24fps to 25fps by blending

Can you post "test script with leakkernerbob" to test the source(D2V files)? Just to mention for now i just work with PAL source

[manono]

So, Pal dvd are using 2:3 pulldown method, or/ans 3:2 pal method can be used to convert 24 fps to 25 fps, right?

No, 2:3 and 3:2 pulldown apply specifically to telecining 23.976->29.97fps.

Can you post "test script with leakkernerbob" to test the source(D2V files)?

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF

[SerbianBoss]

How to recognize that i have duplicate or blends or that every field is different ?

Does is better to upload 10-12 frames to see movie.

[manono]

How to recognize that i have duplicate or blends or that every field is different ?

You open that script with LeakKernelBob in VDubMod, scroll to a place with motion, and begin advancing a frame at a time. If every frame is repeated once, it's progressive, perhaps with the phase shifted fields. If every frame is different and unique, it's interlaced.

[SerbianBoss]

Manono see this pics, what you think, which methos is:

Script was

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Nenad\Desktop\tst.d2v", cpu=0)
LeakKernelBob(Order=0)

1.blending
2.rely interlaced
3.field is repeated once
4.every field is repeated once, except every 12th pair
5.field is repeated twice

Here are pictures:










This is just 4 pictures, i will upload more, bacause imageshack was busy. Just to say all movie is this.

Ine more: This is PAL DVD,25fps,interlaced(as dfindex and power dvd sais)

[manono]

I'm not really interested in seeing a bunch of pics. If I have to look at something, I'd rather it be video. Those 4 pics look to me to be from a progressive source.

[SerbianBoss]

But how to upload video? Its d2v file.

[manono]

A D2V file isn't video. VOB, MPV, or M2V is video.

You can upload to http://rapidshare.de/ and post the link here. Cut a small section (10-15 seconds at most).

[SerbianBoss]

I know that D2V is not video.

Here is the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/6243123/pal_dvd.mpg.html

Just to know, this is original dvd, copied to hdd, than i with mpeg editor cut and select 10 second of the video.

If you have time to look this video, post your comment about method(blend,repeated frame...)

[manono]

There's nothing out of the ordinary about it, except that it's from a pretty lousy DVD. It's standard PAL stuff, encoded as interlaced. No blending, no phase shifts. What am I supposed to say?

[SerbianBoss]

I am trying to learn to recognize in movie does the movie have some blending or shifts or field repeated...

Does this movie is pure interlaced?

When i watch its looks like one field is repeating. I mean first field is some motion and second looks like that have very little motion. Or its normal for this movie.

[manono]

It's encoded as interlaced, but it's made up of progressive frames. Each frame is made up of 2 fields from the same moment in time. That's why each field seems to repeat once. If it were really interlaced, you'd 1) see interlacing, and 2) each field would be different and unique.

[jagabo]

I am trying to learn to recognize in movie does the movie have some blending or shifts or field repeated...

First open you video directly with VirtualDubMod. Step through frames where there is some motion:

1) If you see no comb artifacts at all the movie is progressive.

2) If you see a pattern of 3 clean frames followed by 2 comb artifact frames the movie is hard telecined. You will only see this with 29.97 fps NTSC. Usually recordings of NTSC broadcast/cable TV.

3) If you see comb artifacts on every frame the movie is interlaced -- except in the case of out-of-phase PAL.

After case 3, to test for out-of-phase PAL, use a BOB deinterlace as manono suggested. This shows you one field at a time. If you always see two nearly identical fields in a row the source is out-of-phase PAL.

Note that progressive video can be encoded interlaced -- this is a matter of how the codec handles the frames internally. In essense, it encodes the two fields as if they are two separate pictures, not the frame as a single picture. When it decodes the video it weaves the two fields back together into a single frame. So if the frames were progressive before compression they are a progressive again after decompression.

Also note that some video can be a mixture of progressive, interlaced, and/or 3:2 pulldown. This often happens with SciFi TV series and anime. So look several places though the movie, not just the opening credits.