Resolution problem while creating NTSC DVD from AVI

[vertical]

Here it is:

[guns1inger]

Is this a still directly from the DVD version ? If so, no wonder you cannot match it with a 2.35:1 version. This version has been cropped to 1.78:1, maybe 1.85:1.

try this in your script (no AddBorders this time)

Lanczos4Resize(720,480,72,0,496,272)

However you will get a major quality drop because you are now resizing substantially in both directions.

[vertical]

"However you will get a major quality drop..."

Is there any way to balance the two files? I mean to change bars size in the DVD version so that to change AVI version bars in such so that to keep the quality otherwise it does not make any sense?

Oh, to spend about a month and end up nowhere.....

So, while doing such things the first thing to check out must be compatability of the pictures/bars otherwise it will be the same, right? But how to do it at the very initial stage?

[guns1inger]

Not really. Given it was originally shot in 2.35, and the DVD version you have has been cropped to fit a 1.78 frame (lost 124 pixels across the width), you would have to now crop it vertically to match your 2.35:1 avi file. This would mean throwing away a lot more image, and having it badly re-framed as well. You are on a hiding to nothing which ever way you go.

As your DVD version is a back up, presumably to an original you own, I suggest you go and make a new backup that includes the whole movie. Failing that, you will have to purchase a new copy, preferably one mastered at the original aspect ratio instead of some "fill the screen" butchered version.

[FulciLives]

Open the DVD (or a VOB file) in Media Player Classic and go File -> Save Image As, or in VLC with Video -> Snapshot.

I usually use VirtualDubMod for this ... is there some advantage to MPC or VLC?

It just seems easier in VirtualDubMod as you can go frame by frame very easily.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
In VirtualDubMod do "Shift-1" to save to a file or do "Ctrl-1" to save to the clipboard ... then PASTE into your favorite image editing program (such as Photoshop) and save it there to an image file.

[guns1inger]

Don't know that it matters either way. In this instance the exact frame didn't matter, and they were the quickest methods to come to mind.

[FulciLives]

Don't know that it matters either way. In this instance the exact frame didn't matter, and they were the quickest methods to come to mind.

OK ... this just reminds me of a thread where it was discovered that VirtualDub(Mod) seemed to change the "levels" of the video a bit whereas using VEGAS produced an image with no such "adjustment" and I think this was due to VirtualDub(Mod) working in RGB and doing an RGB conversion or something.

I have VEGAS but find it a chore to use for still frame capture so I still use VirtualDub(Mod) but always looking for a "better" way that shows a more true "unaltered" image.

So when you suggested MPC or VLC I thought you were "on to something"

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[guns1inger]

If I am, I'll take the credit

[FulciLives]

If I am, I'll take the credit

LOL

I would link to that thread I mentioned about this stuff but I never "bookmarked it" and it was long enough ago I would have trouble finding it again.

Anyways I am getting way off track here in relation to this thread so ... I go away now!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

guns1inger,

I decided to put off the project untill I find the right AVI.

It is not a problem to buy a DVD. I'd like to finish the project though. Anyway, it gave me so much experience and a little of knowledge.

Thanks a lot!

[guns1inger]

The only way to make this work is to either find a much higher resolution source for the repair, so cropping doesn't produce such quality issues, or to find one taken from a 1.78:1 version. Good Luck.

[FulciLives]

Actually I have an "idea" on how to match the 2 different sources but I need to understand something first (this thread is long and confusing).

So correct me if wrong but we have:

1.) 16x9 2.35:1 aspect ratio source
2.) 16x9 1.78:1 aspect ratio source

1.) is the original aspect ratio whereas 2.) was "blown up" to fit a 1.78:1 screen.

Is that correct?

If I am then take 2.) and shrink it so that it was the same amount of black above and below to match the 1.) source but shrink it proportionally meaning the image will not extend all the way to the right nor to the left i.e., to keep the aspect ratio correct.

Does that make sense?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

fulci,

The reason you can't find it is because it's a sticky (i mean) so old.

--> Help with video Black Levels

I'd like to add.. that you can't always go by any given software player's
"presentation" look. I mean, these apps provide features to change to any
aspect ratio for viewing..

** ie, 1:85 2:35 1:78 etc.

Also, if someone else had processed this source, you also can't go by the
(how shall I say it) .. by the looks of it, neither.., if the source looks
odd to you, to begin with.

To repair this..
based on what I read so far (haven't finished) it looks like (if this is a
2:35 -> 1:78 conversion) that to get it back to a 2:35 AR, you would have
to *add* black matting (borders) on the Top and Bottom that will end up
properly calculated into the proper aspect ratio, 1:78 -> 2:35 !!

I know you can do this in vdub, but AVIsynth is too combersome for me to
work with at times, specially when cropping, and in this manor with such
weird number arrangements.

I also think that to properly repair this (if that is the goal) is to first
find the original source (ie, dvd) and note the aspect ratio *and* the video
area's limits. See if the *current* avi source you have now, has cropped
off edges from top/bottom *and* left/right sides. If it's just top/bottom,
then you have a very good chance that it will be a good conversion, but if
the left/right sides were cropped, too, then you will have to resize the
source accordingly, which would mean that adding (matting) the top/bottom,
will also has to include matting for the left/right sides as well. But
this will give the source is proper aspect ratio presentation.

-vhelp 4133

[guns1inger]

The problem is that too blow up the 2.35 to 1.78 make it look horrible because it is relatively low res. To crop the 1.78 to 2.35will require reframing using keyframes - not something easily done in vdub.

Either way, you cannot get a match for aspect ratio without an unacceptable drop in quality along the way. It certainly can be done, but the results would be crap.

[vhelp]

You know, I was thinking..

If this member's avi source was actually cropped and then stretched for 1:78
AR, then as guns1inger hinted, the source would probably not do to well with
the attempt to 1:78 -> 2:35 convert. But, even if the avi source was cropped
and stretched, performing the conversion anyway could still bring the video
to look the 2:35 part, just with less image pixels.

But, in the mean time, i'm gonna assume that this source was *not* cropped,
and instead, was mearly stretch (top/bottom) to make it look, 1:78 AR.


** This was processed inside vdub-MPEG2 and frameserved to TMPGenc as widesceen
** The pic was obtained from TMPGenc's Ctrl+Shift+P & copied-to-clipbrd
** fri.nov.24.2006.01:10am -- revised pic (as prev. one was blury.. and processed wrong)

Should this be true, then the pic (above) should evidense it, so. And, the
only thing needed to be done, is to set up the avi source for re-encoding,
using the method (I used) above pic, on this avi source.

-vhelp 4134

[vertical]

Hi everybody,

I really appreciate your attention to my problem though guns1inger already spent so much time with me.

If you need any information about the files, either PAL/NTSC DVD or PAL/NTSC AVI, I am ready to provide it.

Thank you.

[FulciLives]

Hi everybody,

I really appreciate your attention to my problem though guns1inger already spent so much time with me.

If you need any information about the files, either PAL/NTSC DVD or PAL/NTSC AVI, I am ready to provide it.

Thank you.

The picture at the top of PAGE 2 is from the source that was cropped to be 16x9 WS 1.78:1 right? So I need an image of the other video ... the one that is 16x9 WS 2.35:1 ... then I can do something rather than guess LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

FuliLives,

"The picture at the top of PAGE 2 is from the source that was cropped to be 16x9 WS 1.78:1 right?" - I am not sure about that. I just tried many scripts from FitToDisc and finally created the one that I used to create the picture. Sorry about that.

When you are saying "I need an image of the other video ... the one that is 16x9 WS 2.35:1", I believe you mean an image of the original AVI, right?

[FulciLives]

FuliLives,

"The picture at the top of PAGE 2 is from the source that was cropped to be 16x9 WS 1.78:1 right?" - I am not sure about that. I just tried many scripts from FitToDisc and finally created the one that I used to create the picture. Sorry about that.

When you are saying "I need an image of the other video ... the one that is 16x9 WS 2.35:1", I believe you mean an image of the original AVI, right?

Well you have two different sources you are trying to match right?

So need an unaltered image of each to help me figure out the best way to match them.

Best way to do that would be to use VirtualDub(Mod).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

FulciLives,

I have to quit for an hour and a half. Once I am back, I will make and post both of them - PAL DVD and NTSC AVI.

guns1inger explained me how to create an image in MPC. Would you mind if the images are created this way? I just do not know how to make them in VDM.

Thank you.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives,

I have to quit for an hour and a half. Once I am back, I will make and post both of them - PAL DVD and NTSC AVI.

guns1inger explained me how to create an image in MPC. Would you mind if the images are created this way? I just do not know how to make them in VDM.

Thank you.

Well I need the image to be the "original size" so if MPC can do that then sure that's fine. I don't use that program so I don't know how it goes about taking screen shots.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

I hope they are original size. If not please advise how to save an image in VDM and I will do this.

Original PAL DVD:



Original NTSC AVI:

[manono]

I don't get it. They're both 2.35:1. It should be a simple matter to convert the AVI to MPEG-2 with the same dimensions as the original PAL DVD. Of course, the part that's been created from the AVI won't look nearly as good as the DVD, but you know that already.

One way to save a pic out of VDubMod is to go Video->Snapshot Source Frame.

[vertical]

manono,

Thanks.

"to convert the AVI to MPEG-2 with the same dimensions as the original PAL DVD" - But why "as original PAL DVD" if we need the AVI converted to DVD to match the NTSC DVD?

[manono]

Yeah, but your pic is of the PAL DVD. I have no idea what you did to convert it to NTSC. If you want a script, how about a pic from the NTSC DVD you made.

[FulciLives]

You are trying to make a NTSC DVD in the end ... correct?

If so here is what you do.

To convert the PAL DVD to NTSC DVD you crop 76 from the top and 68 from the bottom. That leaves you with 720x432 ... then resize that to 720x360 and add 60 black to the top and 60 black to the bottom to get 720x480 total.

To convert the AVI to NTSC DVD take the 640x272 AVI and resize that to 720x360 then add 60 black to the top and 60 black to the bottom to get 720x480 total.

Both will match and this will give you a 16x9 WS anamorphic NTSC DVD with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vertical]

Yes, the target is NTSC DVD.

manono, the picture at the very top of the page is an image of the NTSC DVD - the one converted from PAL DVD.

[FulciLives]

Yes, the target is NTSC DVD.

manono, the picture at the very top of the page is an image of the NTSC DVD - the one converted from PAL DVD.

I edited my post above with actual numbers. Please re-read it now.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

vertical-

Yes, and you royally screwed up the NTSC conversion. Since these pics aren't from anywhere near the same frame, I can't be entirely sure exactly how you messed it up, but I think you converted it to 1.78:1 with a bad AR.

[FulciLives]

Yes, and you royally screwed up the NTSC conversion. Since these pics aren't from anywhere near the same frame, I can't be entirely sure exactly how you messed it up, but I think you converted it to 1.78:1 with a bad AR.

I agree ... the original PAL DVD to NTSC conversion is messed up. Definitely toss out the PAL DVD to NTSC you did and start fresh with the PAL DVD using the numbers I gave you above.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman