Help with fixing wrong AR of an original dvd

[Talayero]

Sorry, you are right. I forgot it. Anyway, I went to the web and can't find a way to download the jdl-util.avsi and the jdl-interlace.avsi

[manono]

Hi-

Anyway, I went to the web and can't find a way to download the jdl-util.avsi and the jdl-interlace.avsi

http://avisynth.org/stickboy/

Put up a piece showing an area that didn't IVTC properly. If you don't know how or where:

Isolate a small section with motion/movement (10-15 seconds) using the [ and ] buttons in DGIndex. Then Save Project and Demux Video. Take the M2V it gives you and upload it to:

http://rapidshare.de/

Post the link it gives you when it's done here.

This thing is 3 hours long, right? Reencoding it for DVD5 and having it look decent is going to be hard enough, even with an IVTC. Encoding 25% more frames (29.97fps vs 23.976fps) with 40% of them being interlaced is going to make the project even more difficult. If at all possible, you want to IVTC. Maybe it's not really hard telecine. Maybe it's really PAL2NTSC. We won't know unless you give us a sample to check. 4 progressive and 1 interlaced is an indication of hard telecine, by the way. It's screwy, but it happens.

[Talayero]

A small bit with lateral movement:

http://rapidshare.com/files/3796153/saragossa.demuxed.m2v.html

And another one, in case the first one is not clear enough:

http://rapidshare.com/files/3798879/saragossa_2.demuxed.m2v.html

I edit to say that I just did the resize with the no ivtc script (that with JDL_UnfoldFieldsVertical, etc) and it worked. I don't know if I can do anything more. For me is OK, taking into account the not excessive quality of the source.

[manono]

Sorry, but I can't get it. Maybe someone else can help. For some reason Windows insists on trying to play it, and then craps out. I can find no way to "Save As".

[jagabo]

Your video looks like the partially blended 25-to-29.97 fps type of conversion. Your best bet is to use AVISynth and the RePAL() filter to recreate the 25 fps progressive frames. Then resize from there.

But judging by the spherical fruit in the samples, the aspect ratio doesn't look far off. You'll never get back the edges of the frame that have been cut off.

[manono]

I finally got one of them. Yes, fieldblended PAL2NTSC, but in a bit of an unusual blending pattern, and RePAL didn't work on this one quite as well as it usually does. It seems to leave behind more blends than usual. Restore24 seemed to work a bit better. Anyway, if you'd like to try RePAL, it's:

LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF
RePAL()

You can get both LeakKernelDeint and RePAL here:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

[FulciLives]

Here is a download link for jdl-util.avsi file:
http://avisynth.org/stickboy/jdl-util.avsi

Here is a download link for jdl-interlace.avsi file:
http://avisynth.org/stickboy/jdl-interlace.avsi

Put both of these in your AviSynth plug-in folder/dir.

For instance on my system it look like this:
C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins

I hope that helps

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
To download those files using the links I provided simply RIGHT CLICK and select SAVE AS and there you go!

[Talayero]

Thanks everybody.
Finally I used this script:

LoadPlugin("D:\archivos de programa\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("P:\saragosa.d2v")
SetParity(true)
JDL_UnfoldFieldsVertical(true)
LanczosResize(720,444)
JDL_FoldFieldsVertical(true)
AddBorders(0,18,0,18)
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

The result is resized and I think the movie goes so smoothly as the original.
For me is OK leave it as NTSC, since my player can play both systems. The most important thing to me was to resize it a bit and to learn by that something more about avysinth scripts. And I have to say that thanks to you I learned a lot of things.

So, I don't know if I leave it like that or try that REPAL stuff, just to learn a bit more. If I understood well I may get some more quality if I could recover the 25 fps progressive frames. But since manono said that it didn't work well in this case, it may not worth a try, and I should merely take down that REPAL thing on my notebook, in case I needed it in the future.

[FulciLives]

NTSC to PAL is easy if the original NTSC is progressive 23.976fps ... otherwise it is a big pain-in-the-ass so if your equipment can handle NTSC then I would leave it that way when the source NTSC is interlaced 29.970fps.

But since you do live in a PAL video country you might as well convert NTSC to PAL when the source NTSC is progressive 23.976fps.

Anyways glad you got it all figured out!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Talayero]

Hi,

I'm back with another NTSC film. I feel as if I had learned nothing. This one I want just to convert it to PAL, because is for a friend that has no multisystem player. I quote what manono said:

If, when you run the Preview, DGIndex tells you it's NTSC/Interlaced, then you can't use Force Film. In the other example where it said 99% Film, yes, you probably should have used Force Film.

Well, the DGIndex preview says it's NTSC, but progressive, and frame rate 29.97. The film is a documentary, shot on video. Anyway, I don't know if I can use the force film and then use this script:

LoadPlugin("DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2Source("movie.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,576)
ConvertToYUY2()

Thanks in advance.

[jagabo]

Yes use Force Film and that script will work fine. When done, run the m2v file through DGPulldown to add pulldown flags (instruction that tell the DVD player on how to convert 23.976 progressive frames per second to 50 interlaced fields per second). You can use the original audio without speeding it up. The resulting video will have 2 little jerks per second when watched on SDTV.

The other option is to add AssumeFPS(25) to the script to get 25 progressive frames per second. Then adjust then length of the audio to match the ~4 percent faster video. This option will be perfectly smooth requires decoding the audio, speeding it up, and reencoding it.

[manono]

Yes use Force Film and that script will work fine.

He says DGIndex shows it to be NTSC/Progressive. Therefore it's 30fps progressive. Therefore it can't be Force Filmed or IVTC'd. There is an off-chance it's 30fps progressive with every 5th frame being a dupe. I've seen that a few times. If so (although I doubt it), you don't need a full IVTC, but only a Decimate(5). There's also a chance it's flagged incorrectly (although I doubt that's true), and it's really either pure interlace or something else.

However, that's a very unusual combination to have on a DVD. I hope you ran the Preview long enough to get out of the pre-docu logos and other crap, and got that info for the main body of the docu. To confirm what DGIndex said, make the D2V project file using "Honor Pulldown Flags" (29.97fps), and open that script of yours above in VDubMod. Find a place with motion and start advancing a frame at a time. If DGIndex is correct, every frame should be progressive and unique. No interlacing and no duplicate frames.

By the way, if it really is 29.97fps progressive, converting it to PAL with decent quality will be next to impossible.

[Talayero]

open that script of yours above in VDubMod. Find a place with motion and start advancing a frame at a time. If DGIndex is correct, every frame should be progressive and unique. No interlacing and no duplicate frames.

I did it, and yes, every frame is progressive and unique (except half a minute of images they insert from another source, a film probably, that are 4 progressive and 1 interlaced). But as I say, all the rest is pure progressive.

By the way, if it really is 29.97fps progressive, converting it to PAL with decent quality will be next to impossible.

I know it is progressive, according to the virtualdubmod check. DGIndex says is 29.97 fps (and not only at the beginning of the film, I loaded the last vob).
So, does that mean that is "really a 29.97 fps progressive dvd"?

If so, what is the best strategy to convert it to pal? Do I make the D2V file with "Honor Pulldown Flags" and then apply the script of above?

[jagabo]

He says DGIndex shows it to be NTSC/Progressive.

The version of DGIndex that I have (with either Honor Pulldown Flags or Ignore Pulldown Flags selected) reports 29.97 fps and alternates between "progressive" and "interlaced" when you play a 23.976 fps MPEG file marked for 3:2 pulldown. Given that 29.97 fps progressive is so rare I guessed that he previewed in one of the pulldown modes and happened to stop playback on "progressive" and then assumed his video was 29.97 fps progressive.

Of course, as you indicated, if his video is truely 29.97 fps progressive he can't use the script he posted.

[manono]

The version of DGIndex that I have reports 29.97 fps and alternates between "progressive" and "interlaced" when you play a 23.976 fps MPEG file marked for 3:2 pulldown.

Then the progressive flag wasn't set when you applied pulldown. If you were to use DGPulldown for the job, it always sets it, and you'll get a constant Progressive showing. It says 29.97fps because you have it set for Honor Pulldown Flags. If you were to set it for Force Film, it'll show 23.976fps.

In fact, when I open a 29.97 fps progressive MPEG file (my camcorder can shoot 29.97 fps progressive so I have true 29.97 progressive MPEG files) DGIndex says it's 23.976 fps progressive!

And it's set for Force Film? My experience is with MPEG-2 for or from DVD. I don't know about other MPEG sources, but I think they should all behave the same way.

[jagabo]

The version of DGIndex that I have reports 29.97 fps and alternates between "progressive" and "interlaced" when you play a 23.976 fps MPEG file marked for 3:2 pulldown.

Then the progressive flag wasn't set when you applied pulldown.

I didn't apply the pulldown, it was a commercial DVD rip that I was testing with.

[manono]

Oh, yeah, then it's the fairly well known case of a buggy hardware encoder. There are lots of DVDs made that way. With certain combinations of players and displays, the results can be very bad, creating a kind of "strobing" effect. It can be treated as film, and Force Film applied when creating the D2V.

The version of DGIndex that I have (with either Honor Pulldown Flags or Ignore Pulldown Flags selected)reports 29.97 fps...

I don't know why you'd want to use Ignore Pulldown Flags. I guess that's to be expected with that combination of pulldown but no prog_frame flag, but I haven't Previewed many DVDs using Ignore Pulldown Flags. Creating an NTSC D2V with that setting is often a recipe for out-of-synch audio.

[manono]

If so, what is the best strategy to convert it to pal? Do I make the D2V file with "Honor Pulldown Flags" and then apply the script of above?

Create the D2V with Honor Pulldown Flags, and find a script that fits the bill here:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/

Perhaps best would be the script VII, perhaps using LeakKernelBob in place of his older SmoothDeinterlace.

[jagabo]

I don't know why you'd want to use Ignore Pulldown Flags.

I was testing all DGIndex's modes to see how he got it to report 29.97 fps progressive.

[Talayero]

Just a doubt about the script:

The source I want to convert is ntsc progressive. You suggested to use LeakKernelBob instead of SmoothDeinterlace in that script number VII. But these filters are deinterlacers. Do I need deinterlacers if the source is not interlaced? Probably yes. I'm just trying to understand.

[manono]

If you understood that script you wouldn't ask that question. You want to convert 29.97fps down to 25fps, and you want to do it without getting a stutter or jerky effect, that is, without tossing out frames. One way to do it is by blending frames together. Me, I hate blending. I believe his script V blends to make the conversion. Try it out and see if you like it any better. The LeakKernelBob in script VII is just one of the steps used on the way to converting 29.97fps progressive to 25fps interlaced.

You could also just slow the whole thing down to 25fps by adding AssumeFPS(25) to the script. No loss of fluidity. That's just plain stupid, though.

Like I said before, there is no good way to do this conversion.

[jagabo]

You can convert 30 progressive frames per second to 50 fields per second with a 2:2:1 pulldown pattern. Then weave the fields back together into frames to get 25 interlaced frames per second. I think the following AVISynth script will do this:

AVISource("29.97p.avi")
ConvertToYUY2()
LanczosResize(720, 576)
SeparateFields()
ChangeFPS(50)
Weave()

The result should play back more smoothly than a 2:2:2:2:2:0 pulldown (ie, simply throwing away every 6th frame).

[manono]

Yeah, you're right. Why didn't I notice that? xesdeeni's script assumes an interlaced source, and you need those extra steps to resize interlaced. The 2 scripts accomplish the same thing, but yours is more compact, more elegant, and faster.

The result should play back more smoothly than a 2:2:2:2:2:0 pulldown (ie, simply throwing away every 6th frame).

I'm not sure if you're saying his script VII does that, but it doesn't. It does the same as yours. At least with the ChangeFPS option it does.

[jagabo]

Yeah, you're right. Why didn't I notice that? xesdeeni's script assumes an interlaced source, and you need those extra steps to resize interlaced. The 2 scripts accomplish the same thing, but yours is more compact, more elegant, and faster.

I did some more testing and my script doesn't work quite right. Field order sometimes gets reversed. This script will maintain field order:

SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(12, 0,1, 2,3, 4,7, 6,9,  8,11)
Weave()

And produce a BFF interlaced result. But it converts 30p to 25p. 29.97p will become 24.98i. Of course you could just add AssumeFPS(25) but then you'll have to adjust the audio rate.

The result should play back more smoothly than a 2:2:2:2:2:0 pulldown (ie, simply throwing away every 6th frame).

I'm not sure if you're saying his script VII does that, but it doesn't. It does the same as yours. At least with the ChangeFPS option it does.

I didn't mean to imply script VII did this. I was just pointing out that the other way of converting 29.97 progressive fps to 25 progressive fps, just throwing away avery 6th frame, would be more jerky than my proposed 2:2:1 pulldown.

[Talayero]

Hi,

I'd like to try the conversion of my NTSC dvd to PAL. I didn't have time to try it till now.

I repeat the characteristics:

It's a 29.97 fps USA documentary shot on video
Progressive and TFF.

I still have doubts about what script I could use. I know the conversion can't be perfect, being a progressive 29.97 fps source, but I don't mind. Most of the film are interviews, and there are not many motion scenes.

Another doubt I have, apart of the whole script, is if I need to check the progressive and zig zag boxes in cce and write also in the script ConvertToYUY2(), that's to say, if the resulting pal can be progressive.

Thanks in advance.

[jagabo]

It's a 29.97 fps USA documentary shot on video
Progressive and TFF.

I still have doubts about what script I could use. I know the conversion can't be perfect, being a progressive 29.97 fps source, but I don't mind. Most of the film are interviews, and there are not many motion scenes.

If that's the case try a simple drop frame reduction to 25 fps with ChangeFPS(25). That will simply throw away every 6th frame (except every 1001th) to produce 25 progressive frames per second.

Or try this:

ChangeFPS(30)
BicubicResize(720, 576)
SeparateFields() 
SelectEvery(12, 0,1, 2,3, 4,7, 6,9,  8,11) 
Weave()

and encode interlaced. That will allow you to keep the original audio.