TV Tuner S-Video Capturing Problem

[monkeytastic]

I have a laptop which I've been using to capture uncompressed AVI footage from my Sony TRV110e Camera via PCMCIA Firewire card with the help of Mediastudio Pro 8 and have had no problems during capture of around 2GB of footage - no dropped frames at all.

However, I think the firewire port on the camera has been damaged as it is no longer recognized by the computer. As this has happened, I realised I could capture direct from my SVHS player via a TV tuner with S-video in (I had been capturing from the svhs to camera which has been dv in enabled)

I bought this tuner http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-TV-TUNER-CARDBUS-PCMCIA-VIDEO-CAPTURE-CARD-LAPTOP_W0QQitemZ1...QQcmdZViewItem
and the signal is coming through perfect in mediastudio's capturing software, but when I capture, lose lots of frames.

My question is, how can it be the card if the signal is already coming through perfect, and if it's the computer, what settings have changed to create dropped frames unlike before when capturing through the firewire.

System
Mobile AMD Sempron(tm)
Processor 3000+
1.80GHz, 448 MB of RAM
Windows XP with Service Pack 2
Latest Direct X

[Richard_G]

I use Mediastudio Pro 7 (and have used it since version 5) and have noticed that if there is a problem elsewhere that causes dropped frames, it has to be really bad before it is noticeable in the preview. What format are you trying to capture to? Using Firewire you are doing a simple file transfer, the same as copying from an external hard drive, so very little processing power is required. The most important thing is the data transfer rate of your hard drive. As long as that can keep up with the data flow, you shouldn't get a problem. However, using an S-Video input you have analogue video coming in. This has to be turned into data before it can be written to the hard drive. Depending on what format and resolution you are trying to capture to, this will require a greater or lesser degree of processing power. If the video cannot be turned into a data stream quick enough to keep up, you will drop frames.

[monkeytastic]

I use Mediastudio Pro 7 (and have used it since version 5) and have noticed that if there is a problem elsewhere that causes dropped frames, it has to be really bad before it is noticeable in the preview. What format are you trying to capture to? Using Firewire you are doing a simple file transfer, the same as copying from an external hard drive, so very little processing power is required. The most important thing is the data transfer rate of your hard drive. As long as that can keep up with the data flow, you shouldn't get a problem. However, using an S-Video input you have analogue video coming in. This has to be turned into data before it can be written to the hard drive. Depending on what format and resolution you are trying to capture to, this will require a greater or lesser degree of processing power. If the video cannot be turned into a data stream quick enough to keep up, you will drop frames.

Thanks for the quick reply

So to confirm. Using firewire and digital input before doesn't require as much processing as capturing from S-video through a pcmcia card, even though it shows up perfect when playing/previewing but not capturing?

Would it be better to get a pc with a pci card with s-video input? I used to have a pentium 733 and captured s-video through it's tv tuner with no dropped frames, and that was capturing full screen avi files (720 x 576) Is there a difference big difference between pci/pcmcia and laptops/pcs for capturing?

[winifreid]

One bottle neck on the laptop will be the HD. A fast HD is important when capturing avi. You might try using picvideo codec since it compresses slightly and would put less strain on the HD.

[jagabo]

When capturing from a DV camcorder via firewire the computer is simply receiving an already compressed DV stream from the camcorder and saving it to a file, ~13 GB/hr.

I don't know the pcmcia capture card you're using but it's probably capturing uncompressed YUY2 video. Without compression that's about 75 GB/hr -- way to fast for a laptop drive. With compresssion it will be less, but depending on the encoder you may or may not be able to capture without dropping frames (because of combination of CPU speed and drive speed). Try HuffYUV for fast, lossless compression of YUY2 video (not much compression though). Or MJPEG for fast, slightly lossy compression. Try a software DV encoder too.

[monkeytastic]

Many thanks for the replies.

That's cleared a few things up re: compression etc. But I still don't understand why I could capture uncompressed AVIs on a 733 PC with 7200 Drive. Is there a big different between laptop and standard drives? Also, Am I right in thinking it's simply the TV tuner that came with it being better than the pcmcia one which is set to YUY2 video?

I've had a look at the Huffy codec so will give that a go along with the other suggestions

[winifreid]

Most laptops have 4200 rpm drives and have much lower transfer rates. I would try picvideo since it has a much higher compression with little quality drop (but it isn't free). There are some other avi compression codecs that are free, but I have not used them. You might want to try mpeg2 compression unless you plan on editing the video.

[jagabo]

HuffYUV will get you lossless compression of YUY2 video. It's fast enough to compress full D1 video on just about any CPU but it doesn't compress by a huge amount. Expect 20 to 30 GB/hr of D1 video.

YUY2 video is the highest quality you will find in consumer video capture cards. Better than DV, MJPEG, MPEG, etc. It's the closest thing to the actual analog video signal.

[winifreid]

Any compression will result in some loss. You will not notice this loss with huffy or with setting 19 in picvideo. The reason I suggest picvideo is because of it's higher compression ratio. I suspect the problem is not with processing power, but data transfer. So the higher the compression, the lower data transfer.

[jagabo]

Any compression will result in some loss.

If the capture card is capturing in YUY2 format there will be no loss with HuffYUV.

[monkeytastic]

Again, thanks for the replies.

I think I've been a bit naive in the sense that I assumed the drive would be 7200. I remember that for the 733 pc, I upgraded from a 5400 to the 7200 due to dropped frames, so I guess that's the main problem.

I'll be sure to try all you software suggestions to find the best solution. I don't really want to spend money more hardware unless necessary.

I'll let you know how I get on

[jagabo]

You can download PicVideo MJPEG and try it out for free -- it will put a watermark on anything you capture until you pay. It's worth checking out. It can even use 4:2:2 subsampling for less loss from a YUY2 (4:2:2) source.

[monkeytastic]

Hi.

I've just had a go with huffy and that was still resulting in dropped frames. However I've just tried PICVideo in the last 5 mins using PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec for my first attempt and it resulted in only 1 dropped frame at the start which means I only need to capture a few seconds earlier than I would otherwise, so the actual footage I need is not affected. I need to capture in excess of 300 10-20 second clips so will give it a go and if it doesn't work out, I think I'll get a low cost pc to do the capturing.


I see winifreid suggests setting 19. Which one is this as I can't see any numbers for settings.

Thanks again.

[jagabo]

I'm using version 2.something but this might help:

[monkeytastic]

Hi.

I've just tried the setting 19 and it seems like the computer can't keep up. I think the main problem is the drive so think I'll splash out on a 7200 laptop drive like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&item=330044097982&rd=1&sspagena...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[winifreid]

Try capturing at a lower resolution. You probably can capture at 353 x 480 and not notice the difference in quality. It will reduce the data load significantly.

[jagabo]

You can verify that the problem is disk speed by using a lower quality setting in the mjpeg codec. Capturing at lower quality settings will take about the same amount of CPU power but the file size gets smaller and smaller as the quality goes down. If you can capture at 18 with no dropped frames then you'll probably be able to capture at 19 with a 30 percent faster drive.

You did try all the usual things to fix dropped frames, right? Turn off your antivirus software, anti spyware, etc:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=157660

[monkeytastic]

Hi again.

I decided to bite the bullet and yesterday bought a PC. A 1GHz Pentium with 192MB Ram, a new 7200 160GB Samsung Drive and a cheap TV Tuner with S-Video (called 'Easy TV Capture'). I installed XP and Mediastudio and the TV tuner's own software and yet still getting dropped frames at AVI 720x576.

Can anyone please verify which of the following or any other ideas could be the cause?

1. I used to use Windows 98 SE when capturing uncompressed AVI Full screen with my old PC and have heard this more forgiving on system resources.

2. I need more RAM?

3. The TV tuner isn't up to the job. Would an ATI All in Wonder fix the problem?

I really need to capture full screen 720x576 as the original footage is from the mid-80s and not in the best shape. The final video is also going to be sent out to a few people so need the quality to be as near to original as possible.

[winifreid]

Try capturing at half d1 and compare. I bet you will not notice the difference.

[monkeytastic]

I'll give half D1 a go this afternoon and then try it on our TV. Will let you know how I get on

[monkeytastic]

I've just tried the setting of 320 x 240 which is mediastudio's default and am still getting dropped frames

It can't be the processor because like I've said, I captured before with an older 733.

Any ideas? Ram? Operating system? Capture Card?

I thought this PC would have solved the problems I had with the laptop.

[jagabo]

What are you capturing as? Uncompressed RGB, YUY2, HuffYUV, MPEG...?

[monkeytastic]

I've tried uncompressed 320 x 240 (no D1 was showing on the compression)

Also Huffy 320 x 240.

Both YUY2

[jagabo]

So none of those would cap without dropping frames?

Make sure your hard drive is running in DMA mode. Shut down every background process you can -- including antivirus and anti spyware programs.

[monkeytastic]

I've just gone into the Device Manager and saw noticed the secondary IDE channel was set to PO only.

I changed this to DMA if available and restarted the computer so it now says 'Ultra DMA Mode 2' but it's still dropping frames the same as before.

I also went into the BIOS. Is the following correct?

Primard Drive 0 Hard Drive
Primard Drive 1 OFF
Secondary Drive 0 CD-Rom Reader
Secondary Drive 1 OFF

I also don't have any antivirus software/other programmes installed on this PC so don't think there can be any problems there.

[harley2ride]

Nearly all capture device instructions state to use two seperate HD's. One for Software, and one for file storage (capturing to). They also state to regularly defrag these HD's. One thing you might try, is booting to Safe Mode and try capturing. This will bring up the system without a bunch of the crap software running in the background. If that doesn't help, it could be a bad connection with the capture cable.

[The_Doman]

Maybe try the AVI_IO capture program?
I have used that for years in combination with the MJPEG codec with perfect results.

I still use it today occasionally... 8)

[monkeytastic]

I just tried capturing with the TV tuner's own software to confirm that there was no problem with the card itself. I've been able to capture full screen 720 x 576 fine but is mpeg2. would there be a big loss of quality if editing using this? It looks ok full screen on my computer but need it to be fine on TVs.

Harley.
I think I'll put in the original 20gb drive like you say and use the 160 one as the secondary/storage.

Doman.
Will check that out but don't want to spend any more cashola just yet

Again, would mpeg2 be fine to capture and edit full screen footage without much loss of quality?

[edDV]

Why don't you just get the IEEE-1394 port on the camcorder fixed? Or trade in the camcorder?

[monkeytastic]

The camera is not worth getting repaired as the lense is damaged and would prefer to put the money into a computer with better hard drive than the laptop 4200 one.

The original footage is on svhs so best way would be to go through the svhs recorder straight to the computer, rather than from svhs to digital 8 and then to the computer through firewire - less hassle (I thought).

Can anyone please verify capturing/editing in mpeg2 would be ok and the final result would be pretty much on par with the original footage?