LG GSA-4167b Vs GSA-H10A

[MrKaos]

Hi there!

Could anyone tell me what's the difference between this two models of lg recorders (4167b and h10A)?
Both of them are at sale around the same price, but don't know wich one to buy.
Thank you in advance!

MrKaos

[OneSickPup]

Both drives are based on the Renesas chipset. The H10 is the newer model. Both are very good drives. I would probably go with the newer model if it were me.

[budz]

Also new from LG is the H22NL/H22LI 18x spd. these drives have the Panasonic chipset. I have the H22LI which is a lightscribe model. The drive is ok but I still love my BENQ drives.

[MrKaos]

Hi there and thank you for the help.
So problably, h10 (budget problems for a 22 now ) is the one. Or not. I have a gsa-4120b that can only read cd now (i think that dvd lasers burned/crashed/something else), and my experience with lg isn't good at this far. I've been reading the comments for both drives, and by them the 4167 have a nice review. Can't tell the same for h10, maybe because it's more recent/fewer reviews.
Like OneSickPup said, h10 is the newer model, but there is any real change in hardware? If not, cross firmw. is possible beetween them? - like downgrading h10 or upgrading 4167? (Again, just because the reviews i read).

Thank you again!

MrKaos

[laspis59]

I own a LG GSA-4167B and really like it.

You are always risking it a little when buying newer models as it dont always mean things have been improved.

[Kennyshin]

GSA-H10A is superior. You can crossflash GSA-H10A to GSA-H10N/GSA-H12N. GSA-H12N has the fastest DVD burning speed record. 4.7GB for under 5 minutes.

[laspis59]

GSA-H10A is superior. You can crossflash GSA-H10A to GSA-H10N/GSA-H12N. GSA-H12N has the fastest DVD burning speed record. 4.7GB for under 5 minutes.

Hi.

So has there been improvements regarding write quality?

I scan using a BenQ DW1650 and use MCC003 (Usually under 4000 PIE and under 200 PIF) and MCC004 (Usually under 10000 PIE and under 300 PIF) for DVD+R and TYG02 (Usually under 30000 PIE and 200 PIF) for DVD-R.The 4167B gives very low errors and I'm very happy.TYG03 is really bad with the current firmware for the 4167B (DL13) Even with Verbatim (Taiyo Yuden) disc's (PIE is OK but PIF is over 2000!!!)

Is it really that superior regarding write quality compared to the 4167B and worth buying?

[OneSickPup]

I can't speak specifically on the H10A, but I have both the 4167B and an H10N. I like them both but I would give a slight edge to the H10N (especially in regards to flexibility of crossflashing as Kennyshin has already stated). I only use MCC 004, MCC 03RG20, YUDEN 00T02, TYG02 and TYG03. I see slightly lower PIF with the H10N. BTW - I've never liked scanning LG burns with a Benq (at least my 1620 and 1650 anyways). LG's usually scan better with a Liteon IMO.

[laspis59]

I have a LiteOn SHM-165P6S.On second thoughts,thinking about,I remember reading at CDFreaks,C0deKing mentioning that the LiteOn's are the best scanners and that's why they are used in the DVD Writer reviews section of the site.But on the other hand others say the BenQ's are very good aswell.Thats why I switched from my LiteOn to BenQ.

I'm very interested on how well the H10N performs regarding write quality with TYG03 and MCC03RG20 because I have these disc's and the 4167B dont give results that I'm very impressed by.I'll check out the quality scans posted by members in the LG forum at CDFreaks.

Btw,I'm not in any way meaning to hijack MrKaos's thread and it might give him a better idea of which drive to buy.

[oldandinthe way]

Is there anyone who can point to a valid scientific study on the reliability of scans of writeable DVD's. Both where the same drive is used to scan its product and where another drive is used to scan?

Is there a calibration process?

I find the stated results in various forums to be inconsistant and perhaps consciously or unconsiously biased.

And of course there is the folklore factor - Lite-On's are better, or don''t trust scans on Lite-Ons.

Is there a piece of test equipment that drive scans can be validated against? And have they been.

[OneSickPup]

Is there anyone who can point to a valid scientific study on the reliability of scans of writeable DVD's. Both where the same drive is used to scan its product and where another drive is used to scan?

Is there a calibration process?

I find the stated results in various forums to be inconsistant and perhaps consciously or unconsiously biased.

And of course there is the folklore factor - Lite-On's are better, or don''t trust scans on Lite-Ons.

Is there a piece of test equipment that drive scans can be validated against? And have they been.

Not exactly sure what this has to do with comparing a 4167B to an H10A, but I will respond anyway. Any student of quality scanning understands these basic principles:

1. No two drives scan exactly the same.
2. There is no correct vs incorrect scan.
3. Comparing scans from my drives to someone elses is pointless.

Is there test equipment to validate against? Sure - AudioDev’s CATS.
Folklore factor? No idea what you refer to specifically here.
I find the stated results in various forums to be inconsistant and perhaps consciously or unconsiously biased. Too vague of a comment to respond - what inconsistency and based on what? What bias?

Not sure what constitutes a scientific study but you might start here if interested:

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/202

If you took exception to my comment of LG (with Renesas chipsets) scanning more reliably on a Lite-on vs a Benq then an explanation is in order. I conducted a test several months ago where 30 TYG03's were selected from the same spindle. Ten each were burned on a Pioneer 111, Benq 1650 and a LG 4167B. All 30 disks were scanned twice - once on a Liteon 165H6S and once on a Benq 1650. Analysis of the results showed that maximum and total PIF compared favorably when comparing PIO 111 burns between the two scanning drives. Burns from the Benq showed the same consistency between the two scanning drives. The LG burns on the other hand showed consistently higher PIF totals on the Benq. My findings are consistent with other CDFreaks members who have questioned this anomaly as well. Doesn't make it fact but at least something to take into consideration. I'm not knocking Benq at all - just pointing to the potential of an inconsistency.

Scanning isn't for everybody and requires a lot of time and patience. I would be curious to hear any alternative methods the average consumer has to attempt to compare media or optical drive performance. I'm open for suggestions.

[oldandinthe way]

OneSickPup

Your post did trigger my comments, but I was not taking exception.

Given the relatively loose nature of DVD specifications for both drives and media I have been skeptical of data on burns posted on various forums.

It appears to me that the read circuitry may differ significantly between manufacturers who are compliant with the specification and that writes which are within the limits of the specification may appear to be flawed on certain drives, typically not enough to be a problem with playback on various players, but enough to generate less than sterling scans on certain drives.

I also believe that these phenomena may be contributory to why owners of certain drives identify certain media as "crap media" while other drive owners see no problems. These would also explain why reputable companies put their names on so-called "crap media".

Any clue what the results would be if some of the apparent high PIF disks were actually scanned on CATS?

As for folklore, I have seen posts on CDfreaks which have both praised and questioned scan on Lite-Ons, based upon the posters interpretation of other posts, or their interpretation of interpretations of other posts, not their own experience - I call this the folklore factor.

I don't think the consumer has an opportunity to compare media for optical drive performance. The best they can do is judge by success rates for their equipment. This definitely is a problem for those who must replace their equipment, and for those who burn optical media for distribution on systems which they have no control of.

[laspis59]

If you took exception to my comment of LG (with Renesas chipsets) scanning more reliably on a Lite-on vs a Benq then an explanation is in order. I conducted a test several months ago where 30 TYG03's were selected from the same spindle. Ten each were burned on a Pioneer 111, Benq 1650 and a LG 4167B. All 30 disks were scanned twice - once on a Liteon 165H6S and once on a Benq 1650. Analysis of the results showed that maximum and total PIF compared favorably when comparing PIO 111 burns between the two scanning drives. Burns from the Benq showed the same consistency between the two scanning drives. The LG burns on the other hand showed consistently higher PIF totals on the Benq. My findings are consistent with other CDFreaks members who have questioned this anomaly as well. Doesn't make it fact but at least something to take into consideration. I'm not knocking Benq at all - just pointing to the potential of an inconsistency.

So by the info your've posted the TYG03's may actually be good burns by my LG GSA4167B according to the LiteOn SHM-165P6S scans,but the BenQ DW1650 is not very reliable with AudioDev SA300 DVD CATS system ,thus thats why I see over 2000 PIF with the BenQ.
I looked at this review for my LiteOn and it seems to follow the CATS error trend line in most cases.I suppose this is an indicator that the LiteOn certainly is a reliable scanner!

Thanks,I will burn another TYG03 and scan with my LiteOn and see if the PIF's a lower.

P.S I'm not very well informed on this subject so excuse me if my post makes no sense.

[OneSickPup]

@laspis59

Before we get attacked by angry Benq owners let me clarify one point. I'm not saying the Lite-on is a superior scanner, even though I personally prefer Lite-on burners for scanning. I'm just suggesting you may find quite different results when comparing LG scans between the two. It has been identified as an oddity on more than one occasion. If you've done much scanning with your Benq you probably have noticed that PIE/PIF elevates when jitter values increase. Lite-ons don't measure jitter in CD DVDSpeed. This could be a reason for the differences. I would suggest scanning with both the Benq and the Lite-on and let us know what you find out. You may encounter totally different results. Good luck.

[hech54]

I own a LG GSA-4167B and really like it.

You are always risking it a little when buying newer models as it dont always mean things have been improved.

Same for me....LOVE my 4167B and my old 4040B.

[laspis59]

OneSickPup

Here's a link to a scan of Verbatim (Taiyo Yuden) DVD-R TYG03.The PIF is total crap with the BenQ scan.I have unbranded TYG03's that give a better scan result regarding PIF using the BenQ.I thought Verbatim+TY=Excellent is most cases and there are no dye imperfections/dots/scratches ect...

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1546011&postcount=251

I nicknamed myself digit010 as you can see.

You'll find other media burned with my LG and scanned with the BenQ in that "Post your LG 4167 scans here" thread.

According to BenQ the LG is best with Verbatim DataLifePlus MCC003 (MIT 2004) for DVD+R (The LiteOn agrees) and Verbatim Pastel TYG02 (MIJ 2004) for DVD-R(The LiteOn reports about the same PIF but gives about 90000 PIE compared to about under 30000 with the BenQ),so thats what I use for important backups.MCC004 is very good aswell (The LiteOn agrees again). 8)

I have still got to scan a Verbatim TYG03 with my LiteOn,so I'll post back later.

To all BenQ fans,I have one and like it so please dont attack me.

hech54

I'm happy still and have made my mind up to stay with it and forget the newer model.I must say though from looking at the scans at CDFreaks that the H10N looks VERY good.This doesn't mean that the firmware for our 4167B wont be updated to improve write strategies for us even better than it already is.
As long as I use my MCC003/004's for +R and TYG02's for -R I'm happy as can be and have over 1000 disc's so they should last me for a little while.
Btw I used to use a 4163B and that was excellent but I got this newer model and gave the older one away.

[hech54]

[hech54
I'm happy still and have made my mind up to stay with it and forget the newer model.I must say though from looking at the scans at CDFreaks that the H10N looks VERY good.This doesn't mean that the firmware for our 4167B wont be updated to improve write strategies for us even better than it already is.

You're talking to a person who burns 16x media at 8x....I'll use my old 4167B 'till it dies...

Hell I replaced my BenQ 1620Pro with my very old LG 4040B(I bought the 1620Pro to replace the 4040B)...on my system the BenQ simply was not as reliable as the 4040B.

AND...I don't do scans....I usually use Taiyo Yuden silver topped(naked) 8x -R media...no need to scan...

[laspis59]

You're talking to a person who burns 16x media at 8x....I'll use my old 4167B 'till it dies...

Hell I replaced my BenQ 1620Pro with my very old LG 4040B(I bought the 1620Pro to replace the 4040B)...on my system the BenQ simply was not as reliable as the 4040B.

AND...I don't do scans....I usually use Taiyo Yuden silver topped(naked) 8x -R media...no need to scan...

Yes,I burn my MCC 004's at 8x and it seems to be a sweet spot speed to use.

I prefer my LG for all my burning needs and I've played around with the BenQ's WOPC ect.... yet with the media I'm using the LG does the job without any settings to tweak.Easy! I got sick of fiddling with BenQ's setting to still get worse burns than with my LG.My BenQ is now just a scanner and player and I'm OK with this.I dont like the clunking noises I hear when WOPC is enabled during burning neither.Thats 3 BenQ's I have that do this (I always buy backup DVD Writers just in case one dies).Customer support in the UK were rude when I asked them what it was with all the noise the BenQ makes.My LG's quiet and smoooooth.

I'm quite obsessed with burning and thats why I perform the long and painful job of scanning every disc I burn.But as you said,with the TYG02's there not really much point and if a TRT goes well and all the DVD Players let you know that they like TY's eg no freezing then its fine.

I too will use my LG until the day it dies on me.I have 2 other LG GSA-4167B's in my cupboard as backup's if this was to happen to me.

[MrKaos]

Lol

Hi there! Thanks for ALL your posts folks. Still wandering wich one to buy. Maybe the decision will be to close my eyes and pick the first one that appears (if i can catch it)
Like I said, my old 4021 gone dead reading/writing dvd, so 4167 looks like a nice try to redemption. But if on the mod, maybe I give LG a new chance and take the H10, a little "risky".
Thank you guys!

MrKaos