converting avi to dvd problems

[dkuk]

hi all new here , so be gentle, im having problems with dvd quality, ive been downloading movies in avi or divx format and have been making discs using convert x to dvd, the problem is when i play them back the scenes with black , blue colours etc are really pixally or if there is a scene with any fog , clouds etc it gets really blocky, ive got a dvd player with divx compatability , but like making standard dvds to share with friends.everyone ive mentioned this to think convert x to dvd is the bees knees , so i dont understand why i have quality issues, i play these dvds on a wide screen tv is that anything to do with it, when i play them on a portable tv i cant really see any pixals etc (but i dont know if its because of a smaller tv) ive used nero ,winavi, tmpeg etc with same results, ive just downloaded avi recomp, but dont really know if this is the answer, also i dont know how to use it really , or am i wasting my time with this program.also if i use convert x to dvd, ive tried it on high quality setting ,with same results.please help you brainy lot im so stupid at this thing . i cant wait for some help,anybody.thank you so much for your time, take care from david.xx

[mats.hogberg]

Every conversion lowers quality. Have you compared the unconverted AVI quality to the "converted to DVD" quality?

/Mats

[dkuk]

yeh the unconverted quality is excellent, if i make a divx disc its near on the same quality as unconverted , really good, just if i make a dvd it degrades badly, please help.

[Krispy Kritter]

Are you comparing the 2 files on the same display? If you are comparing a "good" avi on your monitor to the mpeg on your TV, then you will see a big difference. Chances are, both will look decent on your monitor and both would be questionable on your TV.

When you take a multi gig mpeg file, convert it into a 700mb avi, then convert it back to an mpeg file, it should look like crap. You won't achieve "dvd quality" again with those files.

Your best bet would be to get a dvd player that can natively play avi/divx. Then you won't degrade the quality any further doing another conversion. You will however, still see the pixalation in the avi. The larger the TV screen, the more obvious it will be.

[AlanHK]

hi all new here , so be gentle, im having problems with dvd quality, ive been downloading movies in avi or divx format and have been making discs using convert x to dvd, the problem is when i play them back the scenes with black , blue colours etc are really pixally

I sometimes use DivxtoDVD, an older version of that. It's quite fast and convenient, but it does its conversion in a single pass at constant bit rate. So occasionally, as in fast transitions, the output is pixellated when the bit rate is too low.
I don't know if the later version has the same issues. If so, look for another encoder.

I use HCEnc, which is a two pass converted, accepting input from an AVS file. I can choose any bit rate and it works for me, though it takes about 2x the running time of a clip to convert it. Then I author in GuiforDVDAuthor.

It takes an investment in time (though not money) to learn how to do this (there are guides here), but ultiamtely you get better results.

[dkuk]

hi guys , thank you so much for your response , im sooooooooo grateful to you all, im just a bit comfused about the birate issue, so i have to have the birate high for good quality,whats the average birate setting for a high quality end result , for a standard 2 hour dvd disc.say if the movie is average about 1 hour and say 40 mins. thank you so much guys for being so kind .take care everybody.david.

[mats.hogberg]

To come as close to the AVI as possible/within reason when going from DivX/XviD AVI to DVD, a good rule of thumb is to use about 3-4 times AVI bitrate when you encode it to DVD mpg. So, if the AVI is 1000 kbps, use 4000 kbps when encoding. Take AlanHK's advice and use a manual method for best results.

/Mats

[dkuk]

please , im so stupid , i try and load an avi file in the hc and its asking for a ini file , im so lost , i wanna learn , but to be honest i feel like crying for not knowing what to do , ive gone to a giude asking me to use dgindex and find the aspect ratio and frame type of the avi file, but get mb file error on the info.im so lost if anyone can have patience , id be so thankful, im so sorry to you all for being a pest, i really wanna learn,but feel really stupid.sorry.

[AlanHK]

I did say you have to invest some time. In the end, you understand the process and can make choices and do things you couldn't with one-click solutions.

Anyway, a useful tool for creating AVS files (which filter the AVI for HCEnc) is FitCD.

Click on the "Source" button and choose your AVI file.
Then in "Destination" choose "DVD 720".
Then "Save script".

Load this AVS script as source in HC.
Choose a destination (MPEG) name.
The bitrate selection shows you the resulting filesize. Click on "bitrate" to change that, click on "file size" to work backwards. You can jump back and forth between these and see the results till you get numbers you like.

If it's a single title, you can go up to about 4100000 kb size, allowing a few hundred MB for sound and overhead from the full capacity.

Choose profile: "Best"
Click on "3:2: pulldown" (Will only be used if necessary, so leave it on).

Choose Aspect ratio of either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on your source.

Click "Save HC.ini" to save your settings, which will be the default the next time you use it.

You might just encode a few minutes (by limiting HC to say 2000 frames) and see the result.

The sound file needs to be created separately.
I use BeSweet, in Wizard mode, select the AVI as source,
select output MP2
128k (or higher) bitrate
Click on "more options" then "output" to set SSRC sampling rate to 48000.

Then "Go". It's pretty fast.

You can also use AC3 rather than MP2 sound, but I found MP2 less hassle.

You might rename the MP2 to give it the same prefix as your MPEG.

In your authoring app select the MPEG and MP2 and you should be OK.

Always useful to have a DVDRW to make tests.

[parkay2]

What I like to do is to transcode before encode. I use Sonic MYDVD 5.0 deluxe. If it tells me that I must select PAL, then I know that i have to run IFOedit at the end of the reencode process to set it to NTSC. Anyhow, after I create a DVD folder using Sonic, I use DVDfab lite just to rip the main movie I created with Sonic to an ISO image. I load the ISO image using Virtual Clone drive. I use DVDshrink to compress the movie to fit on one DVD-5 disk. I then start powerDVD and play the movie for a second and go to "information" to view the bitrate of the movie. I then start DVD2SVCD and select DVD to DVD as my input/output settings. I set the disk size to 4350 in the bitrate tab. And then in all the bitrate boxes I put the bitrate value that I retrieved in powerDVD. I use the TMPEGenc encoder w/ DVD2SVCD. DVD2SVCD has a settings window for TMPEGenc. I check box CBR and set the motion search precision to "highest quality" and in the advanced settings window I check box "soften block noise" and set the settings to 35 and 35. Then, I set DVD2SVCD not to delete any created files. I then start the ripping process from the "shrinked" DVD created from DVD Shrink. If the video is NTSC, when the processing is done, I use IMGtool classic and DVD Decrypter to create my DVD. If the original XVID AVI is good quality the DVD is good too. Now, if the source DVD is PAL, when you are running DVD2SVCD, when DVD2SVCD opens up TMPEGenc encoder , shortly after TMPEG starts - abort the process!. DVD2SVCD will then create like a 20 second DVD from the short encode. Go into your project folder that you create for your DVD2SVCD files and delete the muxed video file that DVD2SVCD created and I like to delete the Video_TS and Audio_TS folder that was created also. Now open TMPEGenc encoder manually, you will find that the AVIsynth progect file that DVD2SVCD created will still be loaded in the video source window of TMPEGenc. Now go into the setting folder of TMPEGenc and change the video settings to reflect a 720x480 29.97 bitrate NTSC format. Now start the encoding process. (I usually do my processing overnite) - When TMPEGenc finishes reencoding, I open DVD2SVCD again and recover the project that I was working on when I created the 20 second DVD. I pick muxing/cutting as the point to start from. DVD2SVCD will then use the MPV file that I manually created to make the DVD movie. Whew!, anyhow, when the movie is done you will have a set of VOB's that reflect that they are in NTSC format, but the larger video_TS.IFO file will state that it is a PAL movie. Open up the large Video_TS file in IfoEdit and change the video setting to NTSC. Next take the DVD folder that was created by DVD2SVCD (with the edited Video_TS.IFO file)and image it and burn the image with DVD Decrypter. You will now have a DVD that will play in about any standalone DVD player out there. It seems like alot, but I transcode and encode when I sleep and DVD2SVCD automates most of the other processes that are required.

[guns1inger]

The is the most convoluted load of bollocks I thing I have read in a long time. I am surprised you get anything of use out the other end. AVI to DVD is not a complicated thing, unless you deliberately set out to make it so.

[AlanHK]

What I like to do is to transcode before encode. ....settings window for TMPEGenc. I check box CBR.

You seem to go to a lot of trouble to convert PAL to NTSC. Does your player really not grok PAL?

And why use CBR? A great advantage of MPEG2 over MPEG1 is VBR. I sometimes watch the bitrate when encoding and see it going from a few hundred in a dark static scene up to 3 or 4 thousand in a busy complex scene to give an average of 2000 or so. So I think for the same quality CBR would need a much higher rate, maybe double the VBR.

[parkay2]

My process might be convoluted, but my quality is very good. My process, for example can take a questionable professional sports DVD (national college football championship - the official version) and improve the DVD. My problem is that I only have a second hard drive with 120gb and If I work with virutal dub and if the resulting AVI is large, I run out of hard drive space. So for three years, I have been turning my projects into DVD to DVD conversions and my results are excellent... And you know what, I have a life! I can walk away from my computer and my wife hardly knows I ahve been on it! It's great. DVD2SVCD has a DVD to DVD converter setting and it uses all the command line stuff you guys and gals like to use. Besweet - AVI synth - Pulldown - encoding - mplex - image and burn. Granted VBR can be better, but there are pros and cons for both CBR and VBR. What I like to do too, instead of shrinking the DVD to fit to one disk is to save my created image and use DVDFAb to split the one image into a two DVD set and burn the disks onto a DVD-RW and only save the image for the future. Remember, this is a newbie forum string! By using DVD2SVCD, you can analyze all the processes involved in disk creation and learn each process.

P.S. My wife is a perfectionist and points out even one scene change that is blocky and do you know what, she's impressed with my results.

[parkay2]

David, to answer your question about bitrate... Don't guess, use a bitrate calculater so that anytime you encode, you use a bitrate that will give you the highest quality output so that your movies use the entire disk. There is one gotcha, anything over 8000 won't play on most players.

One last comment: use this frustration that you have as a learning experience! Have fun. When I started into disk creation I happened to have Sonic MYDVD and was able to take about any video stream and make a DVD folder, then I could split the DVD and watch the first half on one disk and the second hakf on the other. My wife used to complain all the time about the quality, because the source quality of the video was not that good most of the time. I learned oer the years that IT IS POSSIBLE to improve on the source by re-encoding.

Again play and have fun!

[AlanHK]

And you know what, I have a life! I can walk away from my computer and my wife hardly knows I ahve been on it! It's great. DVD2SVCD has a DVD to DVD converter setting and it uses all the command line stuff you guys and gals like to use.

From what I can work out, you're using a number of point-and-click tools, working out what they did, (basically using them as calculators) then modifying that and doing it again with different tools. Then you have to reconcile things by hacking files with IFOedit.

And you think this is simpler than "command line stuff"? (Actually, the only "command line stuff" I do for this is when I write a batch file to encode six or eight AVI files overnight.)

If you're starting with AVI files, you can do all the cleanup with AVIsynth scripts on the fly and encode directly to your final MPEG in one go. You're doing at least one more conversion, and inevitably, whatever you think, losing quality. If it's good now, it could be better, with less work, doing it more directly.

[parkay2]

Alan HK, you are probably right... I did add a step that was not necessary??? I never really dealt with AVI XVID much... Good quality though... DVD2SVCD has an AVI to DVD settings. I'm going to try what I just did with an XVID DVD. I like using DVD2SVCD, it will create an AVISynth project - demux the audio- transcode to MP2, then it launches TMPEGenc encoder. Tne XVID I'm working with is in PAL format. DVD2SVCD does not have the settings to encode a PAL to NTSC. Once the encoder starts, I can abort the process then start TMPEGenc manually and then change the settings to encode an NTSC MPEG2 DVD compliant video stream. However, DVD2SVCD uses DVDauthor to make the DVD. It is going to be interesting to see what happens. When I started with a PAL DVD, but encoded to NTSC, the resulting IFO files were PAL. However, using IFOedit made the issue moot as the IFO file can be edited in a matter of seconds. I'll let you know if I start with a PAL XVID AVI and bring that directly into DVD2SVCD if I end up with a PAL IFO file or an NTSC IFO File.

[parkay2]

ALAN HK, cool, no need to transcode an AVI, was able to start with an AVI and make a DVD. I did however have to still edit the IFO file that was created by DVDauthor to change the video type to NTSC (even though I encoded the video form PAL to NTSC w/ TMPEGenc. Sorry for my tone earlier and thanks for the help.

[AlanHK]

I didn't mean to be antagonistic either.

I haven't used DVD2SVCD so I can't comment on that.
However you do say that it creates an Avisynth project. I guess you mean an AVS file?
If so, that's worth looking at.

Look up the commands or filters called there (eg, at Avisynth.org) and try to work out what it's doing. Then you might experiment by changing parameters, or substituting different filters.

You still seem determined to convert everything to NTSC.
Can't your TV and/or player cope with PAL? My TV is 10 years old, and nothing special and it has no problems with either system.

[parkay2]

Alan HK, my Sony DVD player won't play PAL DVD's or DIVX encoded videos. My wife and I didn't buy a DVD player as quick as most and waited until this specific one was on clearance. As soon as we bought this one, DVD players started offering DIVX playback.

[parkay2]

AlanHK, Yes, DVD2svcd loads an AVS file into TMPEGenc, I will have to study AVIsynth more. I'm going to load the AVS file into HC encode and check it out. I can then substitute that encode into my DVD2svcd folder and fool, DVD2svcd into thinking it created the MPEG2 stream.

Here's the AVIsynth script that DVD2SVCD created:

AvisynthScript=LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AV ISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")¤¤AVISource("C:\PROGRA~1\DOWNLO~1\m ovie.avi",audio=false)¤¤ConvertToYUY2()¤¤BicubicRe size(720,542,0.0,0.6)¤¤AddBorders(0,17,0,17)¤¤Conv ertToRGB24()¤¤

[AlanHK]

You'll notice your post is over-wide becasweu the line endngs in your code are odd.

You can edit your post to fix that.
You can use the "CODE" tags when quoting snips of code too. Anyway, your script is:

AvisynthScript=LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
AVISource("C:\PROGRA~1\DOWNLO~1\movie.avi",audio=false)
ConvertToYUY2()
BicubicResize(720,542,0.0,0.6)
AddBorders(0,17,0,17)
ConvertToRGB24()

It's just resizing the image to 720x576 and putting black bars on the top and bottom.
Note that this is a PAL size. NTSC is normally 720x480.

You can use FitCD (free version) to help making scripts like this.

I've never needed to convert PAL/NTSC, but there are numerous FAQs on that subject.
I think it can be done in a single AVS script file; the advantage of that would be you'd go directly to NTSC resolution 720x480.