Whate are sopme highly reccomended Professional Digital Camcorders?

[Cyrax9]

Okay folks, so I own a Sony DSR-PDX10 which is a fairly decent Professional-level camcorder, right? It's by no means a bad unit, nor do I want to get rid of it, but I'm just wondering what else is out there. What's better in terms of quality than MiniDV tapes? (Forget price -- I know it only goes up.) What's a professional HD format? What camcorders offer the most for my money?

Basically here what I'd like to know:

1. What's the current Hollywood standard for digital tape? I know MiniDV is the budget standard, but what do the major studios use? Digital Betacam? D-5? D-9/Digital-S? If more than one, which is most popular/has the longest potential lifespan for future use.

2. HD: HDV compresses to MPEG-2, so I'm a bit wary of purchasing anything HDV-related -- especially for fast-motion videos. What else is out there, and can it be used for SD videos as well?

3. Are their any camcorders that playback multiple formats, such as MiniDV (SD) and an HD Format other than HDV? I know HDV/DV camcorders exist, but I'm curious about machines with multiple standards.

4. I'm interested in professional-level equipment, what do you reccomend, are their any specific brands or camcorder models? Biases are welcome as long as they're noted. (I own both a Panasonic Palmcorder and a PDX10, I have no brand bias yet.)

5. If you would reccomend a non-MiniDV/HDV format, which one would it be, and why?

6. If you were to reccomend a MiniDV/HDV camcorder, could you reccomend one with all of the features of the PDX10 and then some? I'd like to have XLR audio inputs and DVCAM mode available to me. I looked at the VX2100 which lacks XLR inputs built in (a break-out box is required,) and the PD170 which lacks DVCAM mode.

7. Can you reccomend a camera that isn't on a consumer chassis the way the PDX10 is?

8. Out of curiousity... Sony discontinued the DSR-PDX10 earlier this year, many of us expected a "PDX20" to replace it. No such unit exists; is there a reason for this, such as Sony waiting to put out another "upgrade" model, or have they abandoned the DSR-PDXyy series entirely? If the "PDX20" is delayed, is their a reason?

9. Given Sony's current track record with electronics, should I look at other brands of camcorders before looking at Sony again? What brands besides Canon would you reccomend, and if you'd reccomend Canon, why? (I've had issues with Canon products in the past which is why I ask.)

10. I understand Panasonic makes poor DVD Recorders, is this also true of their Camcorders? Does JVC make any "over-the-top" models that are worth the investment, or are their camcorders not as good as they used to be. (I know they made excellent S-VHS units, but have had fairly poor MiniDV models. I know nothing of other formats they support.)

Finally, any help is useful. A thread dedicated to high quality consumer and professional camcorders in this forum would be appreciated. I always wonder what's better than the camera I have without a major trade-off. Since I've been doing on-location shooting I seriously regret not having built-in ND-Filters on the camera I purchased and I'm thinking of purchasing an HD camcorder (doesn't have to be HDV though) in the future, and I'm looking for advice from other professionals in the field.

[edDV]

Okay folks, so I own a Sony DSR-PDX10 which is a fairly decent Professional-level camcorder, right? It's by no means a bad unit, nor do I want to get rid of it, but I'm just wondering what else is out there. What's better in terms of quality than MiniDV tapes? (Forget price -- I know it only goes up.) What's a professional HD format? What camcorders offer the most for my money?

You ask alot. I'll give you some pointers.

First the PDX-10 is a good prosumer camcorder based on the consumer TRV-950 with some featiures from the PD-150 (big brother). DV is a professional recording format. It comes in various flavors (e.g. DV, DVCAM, DVCPro, etc.) targeting different applications. Start reading here http://www.adamwilt.com/

Basically here what I'd like to know:

1. What's the current Hollywood standard for digital tape? I know MiniDV is the budget standard, but what do the major studios use? Digital Betacam? D-5? D-9/Digital-S? If more than one, which is most popular/has the longest potential lifespan for future use.

All are used for various tasks. You are describing tape formats which store video formats. Some are less used or obsolete. Most used are:

SD
TV News + Reality magazines - DV, DVCAM, DVCPro
Advertising Production - Local (DV, DVCAM, DVCPro), National (35mm film, Digital Betacam)
TV Series Production - 35mm film, Digital Betacam
TV Series Distribution/Archive - Digital Betacam or data.
TV Programming to air - robotic tape playback (old way) video servers (new way)

HD
TV News + Reality magazines - HDV, DVCProHD, XDCAM-HD
Advertising Production - Local (HDV, DVCProHD, XDCAM-HD), National (35mm film, DVCProHD, HDCAM)
TV Series Production - 35mm film, DVCProHD, HDCAM
TV Series Distribution/Archive - HDCAM, DVCProHD or data.
TV Programming to air - video servers

2. HD: HDV compresses to MPEG-2, so I'm a bit wary of purchasing anything HDV-related -- especially for fast-motion videos. What else is out there, and can it be used for SD videos as well?

DVCProHD (HVX-200 camcorder and up), XDCAM-HD also see JVC Pro HD. All of the HD formats compress, some more than others.

3. Are their any camcorders that playback multiple formats, such as MiniDV (SD) and an HD Format other than HDV? I know HDV/DV camcorders exist, but I'm curious about machines with multiple standards.

One to look at first is Panasonic HVX-200. It records and plays DV, DVCPro (25 and 50), DVCProHD. Only DV is recorded to tape. Other formats are stored on P2 flash RAM or hard disk devices.

4. I'm interested in professional-level equipment, what do you reccomend, are their any specific brands or camcorder models? Biases are welcome as long as they're noted. (I own both a Panasonic Palmcorder and a PDX10, I have no brand bias yet.)

The PDX10 is comsumer technology with some prosumer features. True pro equipment is in the >$10,000 range. See Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Grass Valley (Thomson), Ikegami

5. If you would reccomend a non-MiniDV/HDV format, which one would it be, and why?

I think you have a consumer/prosumer mentality. So far you seem to fit the HVX200. Read this on 4 Prosumer alternatives. http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/getResource2/b12_digital_video_usa.pdf?id=6558
Then look at XDCAM-HD and higher end Panasonic DVCProHD models.

6. If you were to reccomend a MiniDV/HDV camcorder, could you reccomend one with all of the features of the PDX10 and then some? I'd like to have XLR audio inputs and DVCAM mode available to me. I looked at the VX2100 which lacks XLR inputs built in (a break-out box is required,) and the PD170 which lacks DVCAM mode.

PD170 is the rock standard for SD
Only prosumer Sony HDV camcorders are backward compatible with DVCAM tapes.

7. Can you reccomend a camera that isn't on a consumer chassis the way the PDX10 is?

see above

8. Out of curiousity... Sony discontinued the DSR-PDX10 earlier this year, many of us expected a "PDX20" to replace it. No such unit exists; is there a reason for this, such as Sony waiting to put out another "upgrade" model, or have they abandoned the DSR-PDXyy series entirely? If the "PDX20" is delayed, is their a reason?

Look at the Sony HC1 (and HVR-A1) as successor to the PDX10.

9. Given Sony's current track record with electronics, should I look at other brands of camcorders before looking at Sony again? What brands besides Canon would you reccomend, and if you'd reccomend Canon, why? (I've had issues with Canon products in the past which is why I ask.)

Look at the new Canon XH G1
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canons-Role-in-a-Crowded-HD-Market.htm

10. I understand Panasonic makes poor DVD Recorders, is this also true of their Camcorders? Does JVC make any "over-the-top" models that are worth the investment, or are their camcorders not as good as they used to be. (I know they made excellent S-VHS units, but have had fairly poor MiniDV models. I know nothing of other formats they support.)

Panasonic and JVC have good pro models in the same class as Sony.

Finally, any help is useful. A thread dedicated to high quality consumer and professional camcorders in this forum would be appreciated. I always wonder what's better than the camera I have without a major trade-off. Since I've been doing on-location shooting I seriously regret not having built-in ND-Filters on the camera I purchased and I'm thinking of purchasing an HD camcorder (doesn't have to be HDV though) in the future, and I'm looking for advice from other professionals in the field.

Start with http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ then start reading the Pro magazines (DV, Millimeter, etc.)
Numerous Pro magzines serve every application segment. Also go to trade shows like DV Expo, NAB.

[edDV]

Feel free to ask more.

[Cyrax9]

All are used for various tasks. You are describing tape formats which store video formats. Some are less used or obsolete. Most used are:

SD
TV News + Reality magazines - DV, DVCAM, DVCPro
Advertising Production - Local (DV, DVCAM, DVCPro), National (35mm film, Digital Betacam)
TV Series Production - 35mm film, Digital Betacam
TV Series Distribution/Archive - Digital Betacam or data.
TV Programming to air - robotic tape playback (old way) video servers (new way)

HD
TV News + Reality magazines - HDV, DVCProHD, XDCAM-HD
Advertising Production - Local (HDV, DVCProHD, XDCAM-HD), National (35mm film, DVCProHD, HDCAM)
TV Series Production - 35mm film, DVCProHD, HDCAM
TV Series Distribution/Archive - HDCAM, DVCProHD or data.
TV Programming to air - video servers

edDV as always you're a monumental help and I don't know what I'd do without you. I didn't mean to downplay the quality of the PDX10, but my most recent TV course has taught me the importance of built-in ND Filters for documentary shooting. It looks to me like I might need two different cameras for different applications.

Since the my college has a TV Station and we're already running Video Servers to two counties and I've never seen a robot-tape playback device in my life, I'm going to be a bit more familiar with standards that are newer as I'll probably get to use them. The oldest standard I've used was S-VHS just before we phased it out at the beginning of 2005.


Since HD can always be downconverted to SD, I'm thinking of something like this, let me see if I have a decent plan here.

The Sony HVR-A1 and HVR-Z1 both look like solid HDV cameras for News and Documentary Production. However, I'd also want to consider a professional camera capable of DVCProHD tape recordings for archival and and filming of fictional work, such as Sci-Fi and dramas. Something above the HDV standard. This leaves me with the need for two cameras. The A1 seems to be an "HD PDX10" as you hinted at, and an updated version of the FX9 from what I understand as well. The Z1 seems to be an "HD VX2000/21000" with the zoom ring, an extra viewfinder, and those oh-so-precious ND Filters that have saved my behind in my TV III class.

I would probably shoot TV News/Documentary footage on the A1 or Z1, and use the DVCProHD Camera for everything else such as TV Series Dramas and Sci-Fi. I would also archive to DVCProHD tapes. Thus, the footage shot on HDV would be archived on DVCProHD, my SD DVCAM Masters could be kept in DVCAM Mode and played through the A1 or the Z1, whichever I chose, and the HD Footage could be dubbed to DVCProHD when completed to save costs.

I'm going to have to do further research into a $10,000+ DVCProHD Camera soon, but I think that having both HDV and DVCProHD at my disposal could pay off in the long run. For SD, I always have the PDX10.

More information about DVCProHD would be appreciated, as well as prices, recommended professional models, and so on.

Right now I'm in an odd prosumer/professional bracket that's shifting closer and closer to professional only. Within two years I expect it to be a professional-only bracket, and since I have potential clients now asking me to possibly film for them, I'd like to be able to meet as many needs as possible. For some of what I'm doing HDV is fine. TV News/Documentary work will probably be fine with HDV, however, for the type of dramas that I'm trying to move into, DVCProHD would be a far more suitable format.

I'm a bit reluctant to use HDCAM and XDCAM, and DVCProHD seems to be the most widely used for HD Production and archival which is important to me. For HDV and DVCAM Playback, archival, and occasional TV News and Documentary filming, the HVR-Z1 seems like the way to go, with the final video archived on DVCProHD and an SD Copy made onto DVCAM or DV. Thus I think two cameras might be the way to go.

Further input is always appreciated, and edDV you've been a monumental help already. I appreciate your assistance with everything so far.

[edDV]

The HVR-A1 makes a good small cam that can handle light documentary duty. Don't forget that the higher end camcorders (plus lighing and sound equipment) can be rented when you get a gig.

The Panasonic HVX-200 can fill a variety of roles especially if you add an accessory hard disk recorder. If you need HDV format, you can always rent an HVR-Z1 or HDR-FX1.

[edDV]

1970's Quadruplex robotic commercial insert machine - Ampex ACR-25




1980's Odetics robotic tape player (Betacam format)




1990's Video Server - Tektronix Profile

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