elive - best Linux distro I've ever tried!

[danboid]

This is DEFINATELY the best Linux distro I've ever tried!

http://www.elivecd.org/gb/Download/Development/

There is a list of links to iso images at the bottom of that page

Its a Live Debian based CD so you try boot it straight off CD and it has its own good, easy installer (its NOT the knoppix/kanotix installer)

It has the Nvidia and Ati 3D drivers on it + Firefox Flash plugin + DVD decrypting/playing library + MP3 playback

Configures your monitor properly

Uss enlightenment wm- MUCH faster and better looking than KDE and GNOME

Runs in only 64MB RAM!!

All the video codecs and Cinelerra 2.1 are installed as default

Futuristic, animated control panel

All this and its totally FREE! Unreal! Turns your PC into a unix multimedia workstation for the cost of a blank CD!

Well impressed!

[lordsmurf]

The link you gave is for an unstable development version.
The stable version, from that site, requires payment. Screw that.

EDIT: Download here http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/distr/elive/isos/.votFeegmar5/

[FulciLives]

At the risk of sounding dumb (who me?) just why would the average user want to use Linux?

I understand it is used a lot for internet type stuff like running websites and networking etc. but the average user doesn't need that. I mean the average user just needs e-mail and a webs browser and their cable modem or DSL modem etc.

Again at the risk of sounding really dumb (you looking at me) I have to ask ... can you run windows programs on Linux?

My understanding is no ... so if I can't run AviSynth or CCE or VirtualDubMod etc. then what the hell good is Linux to me ... the average (above average actually thank you very much) digital video user?

What am I missing when it comes to Linux?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

An average user would never care about nor need Linux. Most of them get confused over Windows as it is.

I'm really with you, Linux is mostly useless to me, but I keep downloading distros, I have for going on 10 years now (or close to it), seeing if anything is improved or worthwhile. So far I'm probably 0 for 25, but it's interesting to look at alternate OS's all the same.

Join us Fulci. It's free! Get yourself MS VirtualPC 2004, install it, then grab a Linux distro (try this one!) and take a peak. All it costs is a little time.

But you're an experimental sort of chap, right? Go for it. Join the club.

[FulciLives]

I know what to do with the ISO (burn to a CD-R with NERO) but what is the MD5 and MD5.SIG files?

Also that link you provided ... do I download the STABLE files or the REVOLUTION files?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

I tried the Revolution, and it doesn't boot for shit. I get mess on my screen. So I plan to go back for the stable one.

[hrlslcbr]

I know what to do with the ISO (burn to a CD-R with NERO) but what is the MD5 and MD5.SIG files?

Also that link you provided ... do I download the STABLE files or the REVOLUTION files?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

The MD5 files are there just so you can check if the downloaded file is bit-by-bit perfect compared to the one you can download.
If you've never tried Linux before, I really recommend the STABLE one .

[FulciLives]

Fine ... I guess I was always a bit curious ...

I'm downloading the STABLE version now ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[holistic]

At the risk of sounding dumb (who me?) just why would the average user want to use Linux?

The average user couldn't even cope with linux right now - as smurfie stated they have enough trouble with windows

I understand it is used a lot for internet type stuff like running websites and networking etc. but the average user doesn't need that. I mean the average user just needs e-mail and a webs browser and their cable modem or DSL modem etc.

Well if the average user needs just email & a web browser then linux is for them. I have been playing with linux for a year now. Currently on my machine (running in a Virtual Machine - VMWare) is ubuntu a highly recommended linux distro. http://www.ubuntu.com

Again at the risk of sounding really dumb (you looking at me) I have to ask ... can you run windows programs on Linux?
My understanding is no ... so if I can't run AviSynth or CCE or VirtualDubMod etc. then what the hell good is Linux to me ... the average (above average actually thank you very much) digital video user?

Yes and no. Not in linux itself but you can install windows inside a "virtual machine" VMWare or Virtual PC as smurfie stated. Both are free.

Conversly, your better choice as a "video editor" is to use XP as your host and then use linux for your web browsing, email.... from inside your "virtual machine". Any virus, adware, worms you get will be contained inside the virtual machine. Clever is it not ?!

What am I missing when it comes to Linux?

Nothing to be quite honest. Just another choice.

][

[FulciLives]

Well I am making this post after installing LINUX using FIREFOX which looks OK I guess.

Ummm ... now what LOL

I'm bored already LOL

Also I have a bunch of icons at the bottom of my screen with no hover text so I have no idea what is what.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I'm back to Windows XP ... wish I could say my LINUX experience was fun but ummm no it wasn't LOL

Of course I played around with it for all of 20 minutes if that LOL

I guess that the fact that it worked from a CD boot and that I was able to get onto the internet and post is rather impressive. I could see using it perhaps on a second internet only computer or something like that.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[danboid]

Yes, I realise I linked to the devel version because it contains more up to date packages than the last stable release. I see lordsmurf couldn't get it to boot for some reason but I've had 0 problems with the devel release, both as a live CD and installled to hard disk so far.

FulciLives obviously just wanted to troll. This may come as a surprise but Linux is not Windows, so it works differently and you have to learn how to use it, just like you had to spend months or years learning to use Windows. You weren't born knowing how to run XP, same with Linux.

You can actually run certain windows games and apps FASTER under Linux than Windows using WINE, but lots of apps don't work properly under Wine. There are other options for running windows progs under Linux, such as qemu but I've not tried any of them as I don't use any Windows software at all.

For video under Linux, check out Cinelerra, DeVeDe, Kino, xdtv, jahshaka, blender, cinepaint, mplayer, Mainactor. Virtualdub for Linux is called Avidemux

Its true that there aren't as many apps for Linux as Windows but Linux is much more powerful than XP, which is a toy in comparison. What do the most powerful supercomputers in the world run? Linux. What do most of the movie studios use for their rendering (and increasingly their other computing tasks- Disney made photoshop run perfectly under Wine so they could dump M$ for example) Linux.

[lordsmurf]

danboid, I wouldn't say he's trolling. In fact, all you regular Linux-using folks need to have a tougher skin, if you ever want the world to convert in larger numbers. Be nicer to these people, grit your teeth, and give them valid reasons for an switch.

Of course, that's always been the issue. The only value to Linux is the smaller footprint on the hardware, which gives more raw power to the software and work. Software has always been lacking, or it's the "almost as good as Windowsware" software (which isn't good enough). This is the reason I keep going back to Linux, hoping to see ports and software that is as good as Windowsware (not "almost") or better. So far, it's not happened that I've seen, but it does get better every time I install a new distribution.

I also would not refer to Windows or Mac OS X as "toys" or "games" either. They're OS too, maybe a bit more prettified (by default only, you can turn it off!), but an OS all the same. As a toy or game, it loses a kid's interest in about 3 seconds.

Fulci, I wouldn't mess with the boot disc, or installing it raw on the hard drive. Windows can run VirtualPC, and you can install Linux inside of VPC, which runs inside of Windows. Then go try OpenOffice and some video software, see how it looks.

[danboid]

I wasn't calling MacOSX a toy, that is an impressive OS as, like Linux, it is based upon unix- which is what the big boys have always used (SGI, Sun, IBM etc) on big iron.

BUT

I have seen many types of processing intensive computing tasks where Linux wipes the floor with Darwin, the MacOSX kernel. Linux is just faster AND supports more hardware out of the box than any other kernel.

FulciLives/ Linux noobs:

After installing elive to your HD, you will want to start the elive control panel and find the icon for the package manager. Once that starts, click 'Refresh', let it update the list of programs you can get then push CTRL+F to search for a new program to install. Cinelerra will already be installed and you could try installing some of of the apps I mentioned in my last posting and seeing as your 3D card (if you have one) you could try some free games like foobillard, tuxracer, xmoto, slune, chromium, supertux etc.

There are a couple of progs missing a link in the e17 menus (left or right click on the e17 desktop) to the enlightenment menu editor which is called entangle. So, you will need to open a console window, type

entangle

and then use entangle to add a link to entangle under one of the menus (like utils maybe) so you can run it easier when you want to edit your menus in future. Entangle is also used to add and remove program shortcuts to the bar at the bottom of the screen. The other command you need to know is

e17genmenu (or is it e17menugen? I'm in work)

Which trawls your system for installed apps and adds them to the menus automatically if they're not there already. I was speaking to the e devs and they tell me that the elive e17 is out of date as this menu editing process has changed now. I would also try installing some different e17 themes and use the e17 config tool and try loading some different e17 modules such as the clock, cpu monitor, weather updates or fire/snow and other desktop effects.

Linux has much, much superior multi-tasking capabilities than Windows XP. On my Athlon 2000 w/ 512MB RAM I can burn DVDs whilst watching multiple divx whilst playing a wav whilst encoding video whilst downloading stuff off the web and amule whilst chatting on irc simultaneosly and it doesn't flinch! Try doing something like that on XP!

[lordsmurf]

Well, the stable version craps out too. All I get is a messed up display. It does not seem to matter what display settings I pick while booting, it's just garbled pixels.

Another distribution I won't be using.

//////// EDIT! - Okay, 16-bit mode works fine! Time to test!

[tekkieman]

A couple of notes for smurf and fulci -

Smurf - you and I have gone back and forth enough that I won't bother. It is good that you keep trying to find something you like though. My comment is in regard to these statements:

Software has always been lacking, or it's the "almost as good as Windowsware" software (which isn't good enough). This is the reason I keep going back to Linux, hoping to see ports and software that is as good as Windowsware (not "almost") or better.

The stable version, from that site, requires payment. Screw that.

So, let me see if I have this right....you're complaining that something free isn't as good as something that's greatly overpriced, and you have a problem paying for something that everyone else charges you even more money for (or do you just steal Windows?). Not all linux distros are free as in free, but they are all free. If you don't like what you get, change it! Can't? Then wait for the people who aren't getting paid for developing these programs to have the time and desire to make them better. Remember the old saying, "if you're not part of the solution..."


If you haven't found the software you're looking for, you are either looking for games, or you're not looking in the right place. I'll just stop here. If I take it any further, we'll be right back to "there's no app to do x"..."yes there is. App yyy"..."App yyy sucks"..."App zzz"..."App zzz sucks"..."App xyz"...


Fulci - You may be a better candidate for linux than you think! Besides the better security in your browsing and email habits, since you enjoy avisynth scripting so much, you would probably enjoy the power and flexibilty that the linux command line offers. Most people just trying linux complain about two things repeatedly: that application X doesn't have a GUI or that they think they shouldn't have to use the command line (or read the docs for any given command and its options). Since you're not afraid of these things, play around avidemux, mencoder, transcode, etc. You may find just as much power as you're used to. Who knows, maybe you'll even end up creating an app that smurf finds "almost as good as..."

[lordsmurf]

Kino looks interesting. I'll have to play with that when I get some more time.

tekkieman, I refuse to pay for something sight-unseen. I know what Windows does. But I won't pay for the privilege to download something I've never seen or used. Even having seen it, I don't think it's worth much. For starters, my soundcard is not detected. Granted, I'm using it inside VPC, but the virtual hardware is very basic stuff (Soundblaster 16, S3-Trio video, 192MB Ram, 2.8 Ghz CPU pass-through).

[tekkieman]

tekkieman, I refuse to pay for something sight-unseen.

...like XP, Vista, OSX....? But I do agree with you. I guess that's why they offer the other version (I haven't looked at it) for free

For starters, my soundcard is not detected. Granted, I'm using it inside VPC, but the virtual hardware is very basic stuff (Soundblaster 16, S3-Trio video, 192MB Ram, 2.8 Ghz CPU pass-through).

I have the same issue on one machine using VPC. When I get a chance, I'll try to track down where the problem really is.

[AlanHK]

I refuse to pay for something sight-unseen.

You don't have to pay anything at all. The maintainer only requests you to "consider a donation".

[lordsmurf]

And if you don't donate, you don't get to download it from the main server. You get to try for the 24-hour slow FTP somewhere else that has a queue. No thanks. That's why I posted the other link to the other place altogether.

[Bjs]

You people will toy about ... but that's what live distro's allow the non-technically inclined to do without screwing their windows pcs up ... to experiment in something they may not be fully aware of .

Best reason : borrowed someone else pc , and visiting sites one shouldnt = owner none the wiser .... lol

Good old day's of redhat 5.1 and before , where you had to know what you had inside the case to build the kernel correctly ... goofup and you started from scratch again ... brilliant time's back then , much coffee was sacraficed in good will .

You actually had a real choice what you wanted the pc to be able to do ... and if you dont want pee's with it , you told them too rack off .

I like to say what I have ... not being told what I have ... stupid machine , I know what I bought ... so bugger off already ... I clicked it 3 minutes ago ...

I have several pc's running at different stage's , anywhere between ... puppy linux (stuffed up xp rescue pc recovery) ... dev pc (working with linux binaries , export for win) ... linux game system (man , watch them bubbles go ... lol) ... and the serious (debian , mostly online 24/7 , test phase)

Last time I played bubbles ... I looked at the clock and realised I had wasted 6 whole hours , and it was 3 in the morning ... what fun .

--------------

Then it's back to window's where your told what you "can" have ... stupid ms ... working on lastest wga notify removal tool ... how dare they not have the uninstall button like the first ... its war mate ... I'll get it soon ... die you rodent .

[tekkieman]

Last time I played bubbles ... I looked at the clock and realised I had wasted 6 whole hours , and it was 3 in the morning ... what fun .

It is quite addictive... 8)

[FulciLives]

One reason why this caught my eye is that I heard this weekend on the Kim Komando Show that Windows Vista can only be ported over to one computer and that is that.

So if you buy a computer and then decide to retire it you can install Vista on the new computer but if you then retire that computer for a new one and want to install Vista then nope sorry you will have to pay full price for it again.

And I thought the WinXP "activation" thing was bogus *sigh*

So it is nice to know that if I want a second computer around that I can run LINUX on it and that might be enough for me since a 2nd computer, in my case, would probably be for nothing more than internet access (e-mail and browsing) and perhaps as a media player i.e., for hooking up to the TV to watch non-DVD video clips like DivX and XviD ... I assume LINUX can handle that?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[tekkieman]

and perhaps as a media player i.e., for hooking up to the TV to watch non-DVD video clips like DivX and XviD ... I assume LINUX can handle that?

[ron spencer]

what about Xandros Linux?

see:

http://www.xandros.com/


supposed to work with windows apps....gotta pay..anyone have it?

[danboid]

Seeing as elive comes with qjackctl + jack as standard and kernel 2.6.18 (which finally integrated real time support) I wrongly presumed elive was going to have a low-latency, real time kernel but unfortunately that isn't the case. This was a disappointment to me as I thought my hunt for the perfect distro was over

So yeah, its not perfect yet but its the closest I've seen. This lack of a real-time kernel is only a concern to those who want to record music with Linux, but even then you can always compile your own kernel to overcome this, or just use Musix instead. Its just a bit of hassle I'd like to see them do away with by including a separate rt kernel or include it in the standard one.

elive uses enlightenment and its been announced recently that this is the same interface (window manager) that has been chosen for the first PS3 Linux distro- Yellow Dog Linux 5. Good choice I think!

[mattso]

whats a kernel ?

[FulciLives]

I have a USB 2.0 external 80GB and another USB 2.0 external 120GB

Anyway to put ELIVE or some form of LINUX on the external and boot from that so I can leave the internal HDD as is with WinXP?

If I can do that it would be fun to play around with it a bit.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[tekkieman]

Anyway to put ELIVE or some form of LINUX on the external and boot from that so I can leave the internal HDD as is with WinXP?

If I can do that it would be fun to play around with it a bit.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Many flavors of linux can run off an external drive. One other possibility is to use Virtual PC and have the virtual drive on the external drive (I haven't tried that myself). VPC is now free from MS. If you have lots of ram, you might consider this, but why share the resources?

One note: It seems both lordsmurf and I have had some issues with sound devices under VPC, so that might be hit or miss.

[Seeker47]

You people will toy about ... but that's what live distro's allow the non-technically inclined to do without screwing their windows pcs up ... to experiment in something they may not be fully aware of .

Welllll . . . Yes & No. I downloaded and burned the eLive ISO, then tried to take it for a "test drive" for about 45 minutes. I'm pretty much a complete Linux noob. Loaded a Knoppix 3 cd once, and was mostly at sea, in terms of being able to do anything useful with it. (Can't drive a stickshift too well, either.) They're going to have to make these distros a whole lot more accessible to non-Linux and non-uber-techies, before a significant number of defectors will be inclined to climb on board. At the very least, throw in some good beginner-level guides. Wizards, a good Help system, larger icons with mouseover legends would be nice too. If you have to read through a lot of docs before you can do anything, that probably won't be too inviting to most people.

The hardware detection and auto-load of appropriate drivers is pretty good, but that's not an uncommon feature these days. I couldn't find a way to get on the internet with eLive, possibly because I have a fixed IP rather than DHCP, and couldn't find where to adjust the config.

After eLive, Auto Checkdisk ran on all the HDD partitions, correcting various "errors." (I was careful not to install anything. Correct me here, but isn't a main point of these Linux demo CDs that they are self-contained ? I mean, you can't boot a working XP and just run it just from CD. There may be some exceptions, like a Bart's PE . . . ? ) The registration info for a couple of my Win app.s seem to have gotten trashed as well, which could just be an ill-timed coincidence. No serious harm done, though. Next time I fire up one of these things, I will take the precaution of unplugging the HDD first. At least until such time as I can implement the VPC idea.