Digital Camera Question

[tenders]

hi

can anyone recommend what type/specs i would need in a digital camera in order to take close up pictures to capture fine detail? like if i wanted to take a pic of a penny and be able to read the writing

my current one is only 2mp and its just not good enough.


thanks

[Abbadon]

Hi,

I have a digital camera, a BenQ with zoom technology at 4x, 5 megapixels and a big screen. I could do a test tonight if you want with a coin and see the result, I have not used much since I bought it.

Digital cameras are so expensive, add that to the fact that you have to purchase a SD card with at least 512 megabytes to cross the limitation of 3 pictures before the built in memory is full.

[SquirrelDip]

Look for a camera that has either a macro mode or a macro attachment.

Best results will be from a digital slr with macro lens but this will also be the most expensive.

[lordsmurf]

You can also cheat with macros filters attached to a normal lens on an SLR. I do this myself, and I photograph insects, coins and stamps.







I need to re-scan these sometime. My computer scans are low res.

Just be aware that macro shooting come with a price of shallow depth of field.

[tenders]

Look for a camera that has either a macro mode or a macro attachment.

Best results will be from a digital slr with macro lens but this will also be the most expensive.

most likely a silly question , but i'll ask anyway 8)

do you think that would be available on a camera thats less than $200? if so i'm open to any recommendation you might have

[lordsmurf]

Not on your life, nope. It will run more than $200, more than likely.
I think my filters alone ran $40-60 or so.

[Abbadon]

Not on your life, nope. It will run more than $200, more than likely.
I think my filters alone ran $40-60 or so.

Could you let me know what brand and where you purchase those filters?, I cannot get pictures of like those you posted. Very nice pics by the way.

[tenders]

Not on your life, nope. It will run more than $200, more than likely.
I think my filters alone ran $40-60 or so.

Could you let me know what brand and where you purchase those filters?, I cannot get pictures of like those you posted. Very nice pics by the way.

i read this review and it gave me hope not sure how true it is , but there are so many brands on the market these days , and for someone like me who really knows very little it was encouraging.

the camera was: CENTRIOS DSC-654 6MP DIGITAL CAMERA.

one of 2 reviews:

"I am a camera expert, and this centrios camera takes better pics than my Nikon D70! I cant belive it.. im gonna throw my D70 away and just use this sweet camera!! Its the best in the universe!!!!!!!!!!!! Centrios Rules!!!!!!"

do you think there is any truth to this review?

[lordsmurf]

That review sounds like complete bullshit to me. That's almost hilarious, it's so full of crap. If somebody thinks a P&S can beat a dSLR (Nikon D70), they've clearly NEVER used a dSLR a day in their life. Especially if Nikon or Canon is the dSLR.

Here are some Hoya close-up filters:
http://www.2filter.com/hoya/hoyacloseup07.html
Look at the "Hoya double coated macro close-up set +1, +2, and +4 all with beautiful folding black 3 filter case". These are for SLR or dSLR camera lenses. You stack them however you need them, from +1 to +7 mag (use basic math).

[tenders]

That review sounds like complete bullshit to me. That's almost hilarious, it's so full of crap. If somebody thinks a P&S can beat a dSLR (Nikon D70), they've clearly NEVER used a dSLR a day in their life. Especially if Nikon or Canon is the dSLR.

Here are some Hoya close-up filters:
http://www.2filter.com/hoya/hoyacloseup07.html
Look at the "Hoya double coated macro close-up set +1, +2, and +4 all with beautiful folding black 3 filter case". These are for SLR or dSLR camera lenses. You stack them however you need them, from +1 to +7 mag (use basic math).

hmmm...those really are awesome pics , but i doubt i could even come close to affording whatever you used to take those pics

[Conquest10]

This is where you saw it, huh?
link

Do not waste your money on that. Do you just need it for macros? If so you could just get a scanner. You can get a pretty good one for less than $200 and its great for that type of thing. If you are looking to use it for other things too, then the line you get what you pay for is true. If you want great images, you're going to need a camera with a great lens. Precision optics are not cheap.

I tried shooting a penny. I had the lens right up on the penny so I had to sneak in the flash on the side. I used a Sony F717 for this. It has a beautiful lens but the camera processing is pretty bad. Its a real shame it doesn't shoot RAW.



And close up:

[lordsmurf]

Is that the coin or digital noise? Looks to be digital noise.
If you want to clean that up, try the NeatImage plug-in for Photoshop. It might help.

The statement about precision optics is also true. I use Nikkor lenses.

[lordsmurf]

About 2 minutes of Photoshop work:

[cyflyer]

Interesting photos Lordsmurf. I'm a photography person myself, and a Nikon one at that also, but have remained with 'traditional film is best' school of thought though. Its an interesting debate, and would be good to hear others' veiws on this. As far as I can see at present, to get the kind of quality that tenders wants, he has to get a pretty expensive SLR digital camera.

[lordsmurf]

It all depends. There's no way I'd give up my Nikon F5 35mm film camera. For some shooting scenarios, there's really no way to outperform film or slide. Digital is about convenience, and it hits it's limits when you climb into flash work, ISO speeds and sometimes even shutter speeds. I have a NIkon D1 right now, and I wish I could afford an upgrade to a Nikon D2H, as it would help solve some of my problems when it comes to light and ISO. Of course, even it's not as perfect as film.

It's all about what you want to do. I would not shoot a model in a makeshift studio the same way I'd shoot a baseball game outside or a family Christmas inside the house. While the 35mm would be fine in all scenarios (given the right film, accessories, settings, and lenses), the digital would not (regardless of accessories, settings, and lenses).

[Conquest10]

Is that the coin or digital noise? Looks to be digital noise.
If you want to clean that up, try the NeatImage plug-in for Photoshop. It might help.

The statement about precision optics is also true. I use Nikkor lenses.

Nope, not noise. I found that penny on the bookshelf and its probably been there for months. Thats all dust and scuffs on it. The side lighting didn't really help in suppressing the dust. The pattern on the desk is the "wood grain". The lens picked up the halftone pattern.

That NI shot looks pretty good. I personally use Noise Ninja.

Nikkors are really great. I use the Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 of my Canon. Really great lens (especially wide open).

[cyflyer]

Lordsmurf, Nikon F5 and D1, thats some serious gear ! Sounds like you have a foot in both doors, and maybe photos are part of your profession. I'm a Nikon F4S person and treat it as if its my baby. If I were to shift to digital I would have buy a digital camera to the standard of the Nikon F4S, not a financial prospect I relish at the moment ! Also lenses are a big issue. Standard SLR lenses and the digital equivalents don't work in the same way and so have to replace all of them also. For example this photo of my friends coaxing the 737 into Cairo, I took with film with my 17-35mm at 17mm. On digital, I couldn't get this picture, cos the film 17mm lens only works as circa 24mm on the digital SLRs. This goes for all the film vs digital lenses, and its a big drawback for me. The 'chip' in the SLR's I'm told is about 26mm width, which sees a different veiwpoint to the 35mm of film. When they come out with a 35mm chip, then maybe things will be better.

[cyflyer]

Nikkors are really great. I use the Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 of my Canon

Huh ? How can you use the Nikkor of your Canon ?

[Conquest10]

With an adapter. And you can meter with the lens (something you can't do on most Nikon digital bodies).

Oh, and the thing you said about the lens not working the same on film and digital, not true if you shoot Canon (1ds, 1ds mkII, and 5d all use a sensor the same size as 35mm film).

[Conquest10]

Here is a test shot with the Nikkor at f/2.5.

[cyflyer]

conquest, that being true about the Canon lenses its a mega plus for Canon, and a shot in the foot for Nikon. That aspect really dissapoints me. So Canon users can upgrade from film to digital bodies without having to change their lenses and get the same angle of veiw-point ? Nikon, bad, bad, bad, judgement.

[lordsmurf]

cyflyer, I've had some of my Nikon lenses for more than 10 years now, and still use them. My trusty 80-200 f/2.8 ED/IF from the mid 1990s works perfectly on the D1. I use the 80-200 AF/S on the F5. One of each, when I need to.

The cross-camera adapters only work with certain lenses and certain cameras, and some of the features do not always work (metering, auto-focus, etc). It all depends on what is being used with what. Nikkor lenses are better optics than Canon lenses, so that is helpful for them.

Of course, all lenses have the 1.5x mag on them. Inversely, the newer "DX" type lenses cater only to the smaller image range, so the DX lenses don't work too well on a film camera. And the DX measurements are pre-mag too, so the 18-70 DX, for example, is a 27-105 shooting range. The DX lenses cost less because the optics only have to exist for the digital range.

I use a Tamron 17-35 (or something close to it) for my normal lens on the D1. And it doubles as my ultra-wide on the F5. Inversely, my normal lens on the F5 serves as a moderate zoom on the D1. So it works pretty well. And of course, that 80-200 on the D1 gives up to 300mm at 2.8, very nice!

[tenders]

well after alot of searching yesterday i finally found a camera that would do what i want and from the samples i have found on google and its looks pretty good its a bit more than i wanted to spend hovever.

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-locale=en_CA&pq-path=8016

samples:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?page=8137&head=0

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/kodakZ650_samples/

what do you think?

[lordsmurf]

You really need to take some loose change with you and go to a camera store and try out whatever you want to buy. Reviews on the Internet really tend to be about 90% worthless, because 9 out of 10 people either have the "it's good enough" attitude (making excuses for crap, a cop-out), or only in reality are reviewing a portion of the item (the lens only, the shutter button only, etc).

When you are unable to question the reviewer, or when the review fails to specify details, then it's 100% useless. Online and in magazines, I see great products with bad ratings, and shitty products with glowing ratings all the time. On the street (in "real life"), interacting with people, you can pretty easily press them into giving more info (or you can readily see they don't know jack crap and are talking out their butt).

You have to experiment on your own. You should spend more time looking at products specs, to find one with the macro you want, forget the reviews.

If you take your own memory card (for digital cameras) or your own roll of film (for 35mm cameras), then you can come home and look at the images in detail on your computer (or in your darkroom). Make your decision at home, looking at images, not in the store while a salesman is sniffing your shirt (and likely talking his head off).

If the store won't let you look at the merchandise, then no sale. Go elsewhere.

[ZAPPER]

Don't take your loose change with you!...LOL. But do visit a few shops and get some hands on. I abuse the guys at the camera shops when I am in the shopping mood, but most of them are really camera nuts and don't mind talking. I will step away and let a buying customer have the right of way if I am not buying.

Wolf/Ritz usually has a fair selection of cams and most of the time the sales staff does know the merchandice (although I have seen people there that couldn't work the cash register and often they are really too busy for a long slow talk) but a good place to get some hands on. It seems like the mom and pop shops are drying up (too many people like me shopping and not buying I am afraid). Pawn shops sometimes have a good selection and a guy that knows cameras, but pawn shops are kind of a grey area on orgins and condition of the equipment.

Taking your own card with you or better yet a laptop would be a good idea. I don't know of anyplace for sure, but in the old days some places had "Loaners" for the try before you buy option. In leiu of a loaner check into the return policy, buy a cam that you think you want and if you opt out exchange it and get a different one. I would give a mom and pop operator a heads up if I were to do something like this.

You will always want bigger and better with cameras and lenses, it is a sickness that can not be cured, only the symptoms treated with much cash!

[tenders]

Don't take your loose change with you!...LOL. But do visit a few shops and get some hands on. I abuse the guys at the camera shops when I am in the shopping mood, but most of them are really camera nuts and don't mind talking. I will step away and let a buying customer have the right of way if I am not buying.

Wolf/Ritz usually has a fair selection of cams and most of the time the sales staff does know the merchandice (although I have seen people there that couldn't work the cash register and often they are really too busy for a long slow talk) but a good place to get some hands on. It seems like the mom and pop shops are drying up (too many people like me shopping and not buying I am afraid). Pawn shops sometimes have a good selection and a guy that knows cameras, but pawn shops are kind of a grey area on orgins and condition of the equipment.

Taking your own card with you or better yet a laptop would be a good idea. I don't know of anyplace for sure, but in the old days some places had "Loaners" for the try before you buy option. In leiu of a loaner check into the return policy, buy a cam that you think you want and if you opt out exchange it and get a different one. I would give a mom and pop operator a heads up if I were to do something like this.

You will always want bigger and better with cameras and lenses, it is a sickness that can not be cured, only the symptoms treated with much cash!

lol.. i don't think i want this sickness point(s) taken though...i will visit some stores this week

[cyflyer]

Another thing that peeves me in the film vs digital saga, is the fact that you cannot get the film brand/type variety that was once available. It seems most shops have decided that film doesn't sell any more and you are lucky if you can find one. No more Fuji sensia or realla, 100/200 or 400 asa, slide or negative. One film on the self, and thats it. Slide film, even if you find it, no one in my town processes it any more and it has to go out of town.

[lordsmurf]

You're just in the wrong place, I guess. Where I live there are a number of pro shops that are fully stocked with film, and there is even a film store. I buy my cameras, buy my film, and develop my film at a local pro shop.

[Conquest10]

There are places here that develop film. There are still lots of stores like Walgreens and Ritz that will take your slide film and send it out to be developed. There are also small places that develop slides in-house that cater to pros. The problem with them is that they charge pro prices. A 36 exposure roll of slide film will cost 3x more than the places that send it out and they also have like a $15 minimum cost. The good thing is that you get your slides within 3-4 hours instead of a week and you could also get a contact sheet.

The other problem with these places is that they usually deal with the old timers. People these days that still shoot film are the old guys (no offense meant to anybody). I'm rather young so when I used to shoot film and would take my rolls in, they would treat me like I was a complete idiot. One time I asked for them to pull a roll of film. So then he asked if I wanted it to be developed normally. I said no, I wanted it pulled (I don't remember if it was a stop or two). They asked repeatedly if I knew what that was. After a while, he finally agreed to do it for me.

And don't get me started on camera shops. They are worthless. I wouldn't know I was living in the third largest city in the US by what these clowns have in stock. I do all my purchases online. People always talk about the benefits of the camera shop and how you can handle the merchandise before you buy it and all that. How are you going to do that if its not in stock? Of course, they can order it for you (which you pay up front for) and then you go pick it up at the shop when it arrives (and no returns on opened items). Another thing they talk about is the relationship they have with the shopkeeper. I'm sorry, but I don't want to spend 100s of thousands of dollars on stuff to build up a relationship so the keeper can give me a $10 discount on something he charges $50+ more than the online price.

[lordsmurf]

I pay $6.75 per roll with single prints (plus every 6th roll is free!), and mine is professionally developed. Walgreens and some of those drug stores and grocery stores do a really shitty job, with old chemicals (or stretched-life chemicals) and no user oversight given to the prints themselves.

My local camera shop can also be persuaded into matching B&H prices sometimes, or at least coming a lot closer. They always have things in stock, and if they don't, the re-stock is only a week or so away (Nikon reps or Canon reps bring new toys).

I don't know about old-timers. The shop customers range from the 20s to 60s, everybody, male and female both.

I have almost never pulled film, at least not on purpose. I do, however, push film a lot. Most films have enough leeway anyway, if you pull just 1 stop it's going to basically look the same.

Sounds like you have some sucky stores around you.