Dual-layer problems

[tlrbjc]

Hi. I have a Lite-On 812S flashed to a 832S. In the past i had problems backing up to a DVD+R DL. Maybe every 6 or 7 and then one would have errors. I did have my HD crash and got a new one and installed a different copy of Windows XP. I would in the past when DVD's would get errors just reflash the drive. I did that and ran the omnipatcher to check for media tweaks. But now i am getting a lot of DL's with errors. I noticed that when i use DVD-Info and check the disc that a lot of my errors are where the break is. I am not sure if the DVD writes from center out and then comes back or vice versa. I backed up a movie the other day that was only about 5500MB and the DVD came out ok. The ones i have bee getting errors on are around 7 or 8 GB. Any suggestions or help with the DL's. All my single layers burn fine. Haven't had a coaster in a long time.

[guns1inger]

Process ?
Software used ?

[bobkart]

Brand of disc? I'm having good results with Verbatim, both + and -, but I tried some Ritek RiData and got problems right at the layer break, have yet to get one to work on various burners including standalone recorders.

I believe one kind of disc (+ or -) burns out from center for the first layer then back towards the center for the second layer, the other burns out from center on both layers. I forget which is which though. That information should be easy to find with a search, and I'm not sure how it helps you fix your problem.

[FulciLives]

Try Verbatim Dual-Layer DVD recordables and try burning with the newest version of ImgBurn ... also make sure to use ImgBurn to create your ISO and MDS files. When burning select the MDS file instead of the ISO file.

That should solve any problems other than maybe having "outdated" firmware. Always want to make sure you have the most up-to-date firmware for your burner.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[VegasBud]

tlrbjc,

Burned dvd-video disks go from the center out to the layer break, where it switches layers and goes back from the layer break area to the center. It's called Opposite Track Path, or just OTP for short. That way, the layer break is less noticeable.

It's not unusual for a 5500 MB to work, but have increasing troubles as the size increases. The more full the disk is, the smaller the useable layer break area, which can make setting a good layer break more challenging. If the disk is completely full, you may even have to split a cell to come up with a layer break.

The best tool I've found for setting the layer break is PgcEdit. It lets you preview where the layer break will go, which helps you to make the best selection, and then uses ImgBurn for the actual burning. Even in the worst case scenario, where there isn't a place to put the layer break, PgcEdit will advise you which cell to split.

It would also a good idea to heed FulciLives' recommendation to use Verbatim disks, if you're not already using them.

I've got to admit...seeing the terms "media tweaks" and "dual layer" in the same paragraph makes me nervous, but it's entirely your decision. Hopefully, the tweaks are for single layer media.

[bobkart]

A little searching came up with this: http://www.gearsoftware.com/support/documentation/dvdrombreakpoint.cfm

So all DL DVDs have video data written in OTP direction as VegasBug indicates.

[tlrbjc]

Thanks for all the help. sorry i wasn't very descriptive. Long week. Actually using memorex dvd+R DL and using clone-dvd to burn. My firware is up to date. Vegas, when i flashed with the latest firmware and then used the omnipatcher, i loaded my flash exe. into omnipatcher and it had the button media tweaks to select. So i hit it and it "supposedly" changed some of the media. As to what it did i don't know

[tlrbjc]

I d/l both imgburn and pgcedit and found the latter to be a little difficult to understand. I did do some reading up on imgburn, understood it fairly well but had a couple of questions.

--Can i do any kind of editing in imgburn. I was always a big fan of clonedvd because it allowed removal of certain files (trailers, extra scenes, etc.)?

--How is the "create layer break" in imgburn. I keep seeing how everyone says to use pgcedit but was curious as to how the other one is?

--If i create an iso image in imgburn, can i burn it using clonedvd? I know it says to use the MDS file cause it contains the layer break info.

--And last, why is it when i load a dvd that is only let's say 6.3GB and i hit the calculator, it comes back as 85%. Then when i hit the calculator on a dvd that is 7.75GB, it comes back as 98%. I am using a DVD+R DL so there should be enough to fit on a disc.

Thanks for all the help.

Bruce

[Shocker Milwaukee]

I had the exact same burner. I used DVD Decrypter to rip to ISO, modified the ISO with DVD Shrink (to replace warnings with DVD posters), then used DVD Decrypter to burn (allowing Decrypter to choose the layer break). I only used Verbatim media & never had any errors or problems with playback.

[VegasBud]

tlrbjc,

Sorry, I should have included this link to a guide on using PgcEdit to select the layer break. Without the guide, PgcEdit is definitely a "little difficult to understand". For your purpose, you don't need to know how to use the entire master's toolbox that is PgcEdit...you just need to use one of the tools. If the guide looks complicated, it's only because it steps you through the whole process, including the "first time setup", explaining everything in great detail. After a couple of burns, it's really very easy to use.

ImgBurn only burns, but it does that job as well as, or (more likely) better than, any other burning program. I'm also a big fan of CloneDvd, and use it regularly, but I have it output to VIDEO_TS - AUDIO_TS, and then burn with ImgBurn. Since you're using CloneDvd, VobBlanker is another (freeware) program that is quite handy for removing the garbage that CloneDvd can't get to.

The "set layer break" function is very good in ImgBurn. It lets you select which of the possible places to put the layer break, using colors to indicate the best choice(s). However, it doesn't let you preview the layer break choices like PgcEdit does. Since I've never used CloneDvd for burning, does it let you select the layer break, or does it just choose for you? I could test it myself, but since you already know the answer...

The best part of ImgBurn is the burning engine it uses. It would be a shame to use it to make an ISO, but not let it burn. Creating an ISO isn't necessary anymore. It just adds a step to your process, with no advantage. It's your decision, but many people here use ImgBurn for their burning because it works so well.

The calculator is telling you how much of the blank disk will be used to hold your project. Since a burnable dual layer dvd holds 7.95 GB, the calculator is telling you that your 7.75 GB dvd-files will only use 98% of the capacity of the blank disk you're using.

[tlrbjc]

thanxs both for the reply back. I actually just burned a dvd using just the imgburn and after doing a scan with dvdinfo, am glad to report: NO ERRORS! I agree with you Vegas. I have never really used an iso image to burn. Always went right from the files. I was trying to see if i could create an iso and open it up with clonedvd. It will open up the iso, but won't recognize the mds file which, as i read, has the layer break.

And BTW, clonedvd puts in a layer break where-ever it wants. Which may explain why i always had errors around the breaks. But i was curious to know why i would need to preview where the break is going to be?

One last thing Vegas, I read what you and shocker wrote and am thinking of trying this. I was going to create an .iso file from clonedvd after editing all the b.s. out. Then take the .iso and open it with imgburn. Is this what you meant by having it output to audio_ts and video_ts? Last how is vobblanker to use. I have heard of it but never had to use it b4.

Thanks for replying back quickly.

tlrbjc

[tlrbjc]

Actually i just saw what you meant. I clicked on DVD files up top instead of writer or iso and kept the video_ts button checked and this should give me "new and edited" files that i can open up with imgburn and burn.

Well i burned the files but know when i open up the files in imgburn, all my break spots are average and say yes. There are 5 for me select from but is there anything specific i am looking for if i choose one of these, such as the padding, %, or cells, etc.

Thanks

[VegasBud]

tlrbjc,

As to the older of your two posts:
The layer break is the weak link in smooth, uninterrupted playback. By using Opposite Track Path, as I mentioned earlier, all the player has to do is refocus the laser onto the new layer, which minimizes the time required to switch layers, but can't eliminate it. There is always a very slight pause. The key to selecting the best layer break is to choose a place where the slight pause won't even be noticed. If you select a place where the screen image is almost like a still image, and there isn't any dialogue, you won't even see the layer change. If you select a layer break in the middle of an action scene, it will be very noticeable. Most of the time, you won't see those two extremes offered as layer break choices, and you'll have to choose from one or more places that are in the "gray" area between the two extremes. By being able to preview the available choices, you can more accurately gauge the impact of the pause as the player changes layers. Even a slightly lighter shade of "gray" might be just enough to change a visible layer break change to an invisible one. That's why using PgcEdit can make all the difference in the world.

As to your most recent post:
ImgBurn uses color coded stars on the left of the selection window to show you the best choice. Green is the best choice, white is the least preferable. Also, if possible, you want the "SPLIP" column on the right to be "No". In case you haven't found it, yet, here's a good guide to burning dual layer with ImgBurn.

[VegasBud]

tlrbjc,

I forgot about VobBlanker. Here's a good beginner's guide to using VobBlanker. The stuff that CloneDvd misses will be in the first item listed in the "Titleset" box (VIDEO_TS.VOB), or in the menu area of the movie (the largest VOB listed). You get to the menu area by double clicking the item in the "Titleset" box. If you have any problems, let me know.

If you ever use CloneDvd to "shrink" (transcode) a dual layer dvd to fit on a single layer disk, you should use VobBlanker first to clean up the few things CloneDvd can't get to, and then use CloneDvd normally to clean up the rest. That way, CloneDvd doesn't have to "shrink" it as much.