ATI Capture/tuner cards

[123fish123]

Looks like the capture card board is pretty outdated (the ATI 9800 pro is listed at $400 and it's more like $229 nowadays). Anyway, was wondering if anyone had any of the more recent ATI cards. Looks like the only two AGP cards they sell today are the 2006 edition AGP and the X800 XP AGP.

I am building a new PC and want to get a decent capture/tuner/PVR card. Doesn't have to be brand new technology since I am currently using an original ATI AIW Radeon card and it works fine (although slow with PC).

Anyone have a newer ATI card that is still being sold and that they'd recommend?

[lordsmurf]

Outdated? So? That doesn't mean it's any less effective. Does everything always need to be updated? Sometimes tech is fine as is, or even ahead of its time. There's nothing to update, nothing to fix.

The ATI capture tech has been pretty much the same sine 2001. The Theatre200 chipset is the revision from about 2004 or so, found on the 9000 series Radeon AIW cards.

Buy a used ATI AIW 9800 off eBay. Take advantage of those other dipsticks that think their computer *must* contain only the "latest-and-greatest". They sell them for a song.

[123fish123]

Outdated? So? That doesn't mean it's any less effective. Does everything always need to be updated? Sometimes tech is fine as is, or even ahead of its time. There's nothing to update, nothing to fix.

The ATI capture tech has been pretty much the same sine 2001. The Theatre200 chipset is the revision from about 2004 or so, found on the 9000 series Radeon AIW cards.

Buy a used ATI AIW 9800 off eBay. Take advantage of those other dipsticks that think their computer *must* contain only the "latest-and-greatest". They sell them for a song.

Oh I didn't mean I needed the next best thing. My question was basicaly what can I use that will work fine without being old technology which you have answered perfectly! Thanks!!!

[123fish123]

And in all fairness, something like the new ATI PCIe cards are INFINITELY Faster than the older cards so that much has changed substantially right>?

[lordsmurf]

And in all fairness, something like the new ATI PCIe cards are INFINITELY Faster than the older cards so that much has changed substantially right>?

Not really, no. I'd stick with tried-and-true AGP if you care more about video and system stability. Those new cards are mostly for the newest whiz-bang brainrot video games. Such a waste.

[123fish123]

Hmmm...well at half the cost if I trust your opinion (which I almost always do...you have never steered me wrong) then it's a bargain to get the AGP 9800

But a lot of the new motherboards don't even have AGP slots do they? I wonder how that works. more fun reading ahead

[lordsmurf]

You don't necessarily want the newest-of-new just yet anyway. Find a solid motherboard for an Intel rig (or AMD, but I suggest Intel), and then I would suggest sticking to AGP for now.

What you buy depends on what you want to achieve (upgrade? from what?) and then what you are willing to spent.

Sometimes a new computer for you is yesterday's model. Still more powerful than what you're leaving, but at less cost than the whiz-bang model.

[hrlslcbr]

Another option would be buying the theatre 200 capture card (released not too long ago...). That way, you can upgrade to a newer motherboard without AGP slot, and still be able to use your capture card.
I have the theatre 550 Pro, and it has excellent quality, but it lacks software compatibility (although, GB-PVR and many other programs work really well with it). And it has hardware MPEG-2 encoder. Check the 650 pro if you want something newer than mine.

[123fish123]

Another option would be buying the theatre 200 capture card (released not too long ago...). That way, you can upgrade to a newer motherboard without AGP slot, and still be able to use your capture card.
I have the theatre 550 Pro, and it has excellent quality, but it lacks software compatibility (although, GB-PVR and many other programs work really well with it). And it has hardware MPEG-2 encoder. Check the 650 pro if you want something newer than mine.

But I have noticed a lot of the new pentium dual core motherboards don't have AGP slots. Are they going away or am I just looking wrong? Looks like they all have PCI express. Are the two at all compatible?

[jagabo]

But I have noticed a lot of the new pentium dual core motherboards don't have AGP slots. Are they going away or am I just looking wrong? Looks like they all have PCI express. Are the two at all compatible?

They are not at all compatible.

It's getting harder and harder to find motherboards with AGP and AGP cards to put in them. If you're putting together a new computer don't even bother.

If you're not doing 3D games a $50 PCI Express board with separate video capture card will do. If you're planning on running Windows Vista's new GUI you will need to step up a bit.

[DereX888]

My tv room's 6 years old P4 machine (now 2.6 o/c'd to 3ghz, but it started with 1.3) on Asus P4T with ATI A-I-W 7200, TwinhanDTV, M-Audio Revolution 7.1 and LG multiwriter still works perfect as a dedicated 'multimedia center' and server that plays and records anything, and I won't upgrade/exchange it for anything newer until HD becomes really dominant broadcast (which I don't think happen in yet another 5 years lol).
With Win2K it runs 24/7 reliably and very stable (avg. uptimes of 150 days - because every new summer and every new winter there are power outages in my area when all ppl suddenly start using a/c or heaters).
Someone please tell me again why would I need to "upgrade it" to newest mobo with multicore cpu, pci-e, vista crappy gui etc stuff that wouldn't do anything good for its main reason of existence: play/record/decode/encode whatever I want? LOL even the current DDR memory isn't faster than my old RDRAM (well, it is finally catching up after 6 years lol lol)

[lordsmurf]

Also, rather than totally replace hardware, why not consider upgrading just the CPU and RAM? I did that a while back, retrofitted my 2001 P4 system with a newer P4 2.8Ghz CPU using a chipset adapter, and it's been a good experience. It was a few hundred, but it was still a huge discount compared to buying all-new hardware from the ground up.

123fish, what do you have now? What do you want to do? And how much do you want to spend?

There's many options for upgrades.

[123fish123]

Running a P4 1.6 with windows XP. Thinking of getting XP Multimedia so I can also set up a home network and thought I would look at upgrading things. Like your idea of a potential new motherboard and chipset rather than all new other equiptment. But $1000 goes a LONG way nowadays and I could build a much MUCH better PC. Also a driving factor is that I have three little ones and was going to move this PC to the basement for the kids....and based on a P4 1.6 I thought it'd be great for them for a LONG time yet since they're still small.

So I could probably get a Pentium D and a 775 socket motherboard and be good to go (maybe couple it with a used ATI AIW 9800) THANKS!

[jagabo]

Consider a Core 2 Duo instead. P4D is a dead end. The core 2 Duo is faster and runs cooler.

[Nelson37]

Why would you want Media Center for Networking??? Standard versions of XP network just fine, though connecting XP Home to a domain server is a bit tricky.

[DereX888]

Consider a Core 2 Duo instead. P4D is a dead end. The core 2 Duo is faster and runs cooler.

Not everyone use their PC to play games requiring disply of gazillions of polygons per second
So its quite opposite - for such simple thing as PVR there is absolutely no advantage from dual core cpu, unless ofcourse you record tv and play quake 10 in the same time (but for that even quadruple core probably would be insufficient )

Running a P4 1.6 with windows XP. Thinking of getting XP Multimedia so I can also set up a home network and thought I would look at upgrading things. Like your idea of a potential new motherboard and chipset rather than all new other equiptment. But $1000 goes a LONG way nowadays and I could build a much MUCH better PC. Also a driving factor is that I have three little ones and was going to move this PC to the basement for the kids....and based on a P4 1.6 I thought it'd be great for them for a LONG time yet since they're still small.

So I could probably get a Pentium D and a 775 socket motherboard and be good to go (maybe couple it with a used ATI AIW 9800) THANKS!

There is a major flaw in your reasoning, explanation: kids require *better* machine than you do, simply for the fact that if they want to play games on their PC, they are not going to play that 8-bit color 2-D "Asteroids" you got there If your kids are 5 or 6 then yes, they can play with anything, but if theyre 10+ they sure will want to play newest games.

I dont know your PC, but seems like its something as ancient as my PVR machine is based on.
What you need is probably this:
socket 423 to 478 adapter (you can find one for as low as $5; mine was $30 from Upgradeware)
Pentium 4 2.6 or 2.8 GHz (again from as low as $50 for used up to $250 new)
ATI A-I-W 7000 or newer card (from as low as $30 and up)
dvd-writer (I suggest cheap LG multiwriter for its exceptional use of DVD-RAM, $40 tops)
and maybe WinXP if you want to use something like MyDVD (to record directly to DVD discs, but if youre fine with recording to hdd first, than I'd suggest staying with Win2K).
Thats basically all (unless you have less than 512MB or RAM, then gotta add it too).
Of course you could add more toys like I did (DTS 7.1 sound, sat tv, remote control etc) but none of it is really needed for PVR, and you can transform your current PC to a fully functional PVR PC for as little as about $100 So save yourself the rest of of the money (or buy your kids some new PC instead ).

just my 0.02

[jagabo]

What you need is probably this:
socket 423 to 478 adapter (you can find one for as low as $5; mine was $30 from Upgradeware)
Pentium 4 2.6 or 2.8 GHz (again from as low as $50 for used up to $250 new)

I recently bought a C2D E6300 with motherboard for $199 (the combo is $179 now). I decided go with this low end motherboard because it had an AGP slot and would accept PC3200 DDR (so I was able to perform a motherboard/CPU swap with my old 2.8 GHz P4 PVR system) and because it came "free" with the CPU. The "new" system is twice as fast at MPEG encoding (TMPGEnc and CCE), 50 percent faster at Xvid encoding.

I agree with you that not everybody needs a dual core or fast single core system. But since this is videohelp.com and the OP is building a PVR system I guessed he would be doing some video encoding.

[123fish123]

There is a major flaw in your reasoning, explanation: kids require *better* machine than you do, simply for the fact that if they want to play games on their PC, they are not going to play that 8-bit color 2-D "Asteroids" you got there If your kids are 5 or

No flaws at all. My 3 kids are all under 18 months

[lordsmurf]

I would suggest against those cheap 423-to-478 adapters. I have the $50 kit from PowerLeap. And then the P4 2.8 Northwood chip.

Since a new PC is wanted altogether, moving old one as-is to basement for kids for years to come, the new PC for the PVR could probably be any decent 478 socket and a Northwood P4 2.8Ghz 800FSB. That can all be bought used or on clearance and it's going to run much faster than the old P4 1.6 400FSB. That will be almost double the speed, and then the new ATI AIW 9800 will also be a speed addition to displays.

If I wanted to add another computer right now, I'd look into that.

If you have $1000 to budget total, consider buying yourself a decent laptop with about half of it. Or just set it aside for sometihng else altogether.

Remember for the new computer you need good RAM, new case, new PSU 500W, hard drives, fans, burners, etc.

[DereX888]

edit:
Also OP ask me how to determine what socket cpu is on his system.
I remembered that Power Leap used to have simple utility to determine socket/cpu type, ram etc.
Well, its not that 'simple utility' anymore, but it still does its job.
download it HERE, unzip and run the .exe
THIS TOOL WILL TELL YOU MANY SYSTEM DETAILS WITHOUT NEED TO OPEN IT UP

There is a major flaw in your reasoning, explanation: kids require *better* machine than you do, simply for the fact that if they want to play games on their PC, they are not going to play that 8-bit color 2-D "Asteroids" you got there If your kids are 5 or

No flaws at all. My 3 kids are all under 18 months

doh
They wont need comp for next few years lol
btw - all 3 under 18mths? you hit triplets? or twins + another one later? Congrats

I would suggest against those cheap 423-to-478 adapters. I have the $50 kit from PowerLeap. And then the P4 2.8 Northwood chip.

Since a new PC is wanted altogether, moving old one as-is to basement for kids for years to come, the new PC for the PVR could probably be any decent 478 socket and a Northwood P4 2.8Ghz 800FSB. That can all be bought used or on clearance and it's going to run much faster than the old P4 1.6 400FSB. That will be almost double the speed, and then the new ATI AIW 9800 will also be a speed addition to displays.

If I wanted to add another computer right now, I'd look into that.

If you have $1000 to budget total, consider buying yourself a decent laptop with about half of it. Or just set it aside for sometihng else altogether.

Remember for the new computer you need good RAM, new case, new PSU 500W, hard drives, fans, burners, etc.

thats true.
Although I havent found any decent s423 motherboard that couldnt be set for 133mhz FSB and fitted with s478 adapter (asus p4t, aopen 4t, gigabyte titan and few other afair) to run 533mhz FSB CPUs. I had a problem once with voltage and a celeron, but thats because of using one of those cheap adapters (exactly as smurf suggests not), but I usually go for original mobo manufacturer's adapter (if exists) or use Upgradeware's one (has very adjstable voltage regulators).
I am not too keen on dealing with PowerLeap, had bad experience twice with them in the past, and since then I avoid them.

Upgradeware s423 to s478:
http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/p478/p478.htm
Its main advantage compared to PowerLeap's adapter is that it still allow to use stock regular standard cooler/fan that comes with CPU, whilst PL's adapter must use their own proprietary cooler (unless theyve changed design since then?)

What you need is probably this:
socket 423 to 478 adapter (you can find one for as low as $5; mine was $30 from Upgradeware)
Pentium 4 2.6 or 2.8 GHz (again from as low as $50 for used up to $250 new)

I recently bought a C2D E6300 with motherboard for $199 (the combo is $179 now). I decided go with this low end motherboard because it had an AGP slot and would accept PC3200 DDR (so I was able to perform a motherboard/CPU swap with my old 2.8 GHz P4 PVR system) and because it came "free" with the CPU. The "new" system is twice as fast at MPEG encoding (TMPGEnc and CCE), 50 percent faster at Xvid encoding.

I agree with you that not everybody needs a dual core or fast single core system. But since this is videohelp.com and the OP is building a PVR system I guessed he would be doing some video encoding.

Well, yes, and no.
If OP needs just a PVR (equivalent of standalone recorder with much more options) and thats what I think he wants since he want ATI A-I-W series card with direct-to-MPEG recording, then there is no need for what you bought at all ($179 just for mobo+CPU, what about the rest?).
But if OP wants to have full-bred machine, capture in raw, make professional encoding with CCE, do professional authoring etc etc - then by all means he should go for it.

[lordsmurf]

My PowerLeap adapter uses native 423 chipset coolers, whatever you want to run with. All you need are longer clips, which they give you. I went ahead and used their heatsink, I liked it, but I used my own CPU fan.

Also, they make 400FSB CPUs in the Northwood line, all the way up to 2.8Ghz (and the very rare 3.0Ghz, if you know an Intel insider that could help you out!). The 2.4Ghz and 2.6Ghz 400FSB are easier to find and a bit cheaper.

There are various serious flaws with the non-PL adapters out there, so I do not suggest them.

[DereX888]

My PowerLeap adapter uses native 423 chipset coolers, whatever you want to run with. All you need are longer clips, which they give you. I went ahead and used their heatsink, I liked it, but I used my own CPU fan.

Also, they make 400FSB CPUs in the Northwood line, all the way up to 2.8Ghz (and the very rare 3.0Ghz, if you know an Intel insider that could help you out!). The 2.4Ghz and 2.6Ghz 400FSB are easier to find and a bit cheaper.

There are various serious flaws with the non-PL adapters out there, so I do not suggest them.

When i ordered my very first adapter back in 2001 or 2002 exactly from PoerLeap it wasn't compatible with any other cooler but the one that came with it. And it had very crappy no-brand fan too. Neither they attach'd any longer clips you've mention (thats what Upgradeware's adapters come with, for use of standard coolers). So obviously something have changed since then.

Do you know anyone at Intel?

[123fish123]

Since a new PC is wanted altogether, moving old one as-is to basement for kids for years to come, the new PC for the PVR could probably be any decent 478 socket and a Northwood P4 2.8Ghz 800FSB. That can all be bought used or on clearance and it's going to run much faster than the old P4 1.6 400FSB. That will be almost double the speed, and then the new ATI AIW 9800 will also be a speed addition to displays.

OK...Slow down for the newbie please

So I need the following right (forget drives...etc. Let's just talk boards and chips)

Motherboard with a 478 socket
P4 2.8 ghtz chip

Now what is this about northwood and 800FSB? That's where I get confused. Don't I just purchase a board and pop the chip into it? Sorry if this is an overly simple question.

[jagabo]

Northwood is an older version of the Pentium 4. It had less cache, no hyperthreading and didn't support SSE3. Hence it needed less cooling and ran quieter. Some of the Northwood processors used a 533 MHz front side bus (FSB) rather than 800. Slower FSB leads to slower memory and I/O access.

[DereX888]

wow... I think you may be just little over your head, mate.
Not to be mean or anything, dont get me wrong, but since you don't see the difference between one type of cpu and another, which imho is the basic and simplest thing to know, perhaps you should just ask someone to build a new PC for you, or upgrade your old, or just buy a new PC in a store. Either that or are youre up to the task of fast learning of quite few things first?

[123fish123]

wow... I think you may be just little over your head, mate.
Not to be mean or anything, dont get me wrong, but since you don't see the difference between one type of cpu and another, which imho is the basic and simplest thing to know, perhaps you should just ask someone to build a new PC for you, or upgrade your old, or just buy a new PC in a store. Either that or are youre up to the task of fast learning of quite few things first?

Thanks! Yes I am very much in the learning process and thanks to many of you helpful folks out here (special thanks to Lordsmurf and DereX888) I have been motivated to keep reading and learning so thanks for that and for answering my questions!!!

[123fish123]

THANKS TO ALL

Contacte Compaq and even though I have a 478 socket MB, they ell me the fastest P4 I can put in is 2.0 which is not worth it to me so a new MB and chip it is.

Thanks to you all I think I have found a 478 socket on newegg.com for $60 and can buy a cheap P4 2.8 for it and go fromj there.

[DereX888]

Great I didnt want to discourage you.
Once you build your first PC yourself you'll never go back to buying ready-make sets (Its like with girls when we were teenagers )
And if you ever need you can PM me with any questions you may have, even if you think theyre too simple.

[123fish123]

Great I didnt want to discourage you.
Once you build your first PC yourself you'll never go back to buying ready-make sets (Its like with girls when we were teenagers )
And if you ever need you can PM me with any questions you may have, even if you think theyre too simple.

Once again...thanks to all. This thread truly shows why this board ROCKS!!!!

[123fish123]

Since a new PC is wanted altogether, moving old one as-is to basement for kids for years to come, the new PC for the PVR could probably be any decent 478 socket and a Northwood P4 2.8Ghz 800FSB. That can all be bought used or on clearance and it's going to run much faster than the old P4 1.6 400FSB. That will be almost double the speed, and then the new ATI AIW 9800 will also be a speed addition to displays.

If I wanted to add another computer right now, I'd look into that.

Why do you suggest the Northwood over the Prescott or Cedar Mill? Is it just because of cost? (See, I am learning something from all of you).