1920x1080 PC compatible 37" LCD TV

[kurbads]

I found 37" LCD TV on internet shop for below 1500$ with resolution of 1920x1080.
I looked more carefuly and discovered that it is only maximum input resolution while output resolution is 1366x768.
Then I found display for over 3000$ which has kind of true resolution of 1920x1080 (called full HDTV), but when looking at detailed specs its "PC display" resolution is only 1024x768!
Also when you Google the internet for "1920x1080 TV" the first article tells you that actual resolution of 1920x1080 TV is 1824x1026.
Is there in the world an over 37" LCD TV with true 1920x1080 PC ready resolution? And has it price below 1.5K? Or I have to wait few years? You see I have Mac Mini with built in 1920x1080 video card and I have wireless mouse and keyboard. I thought it would be nice to sit on the sofa and work on the computer and then take a remote and switch to TV or load movie from HD. I think it must be 1920x1080 TV otherwise it will be too grainy for PC!
People list a lot of things here. Maybe this is time to start list TVs, since this is video help forum?
Ah, and another question. Can the TV digital tuner be used for digital captures. If yes, how it is connected to PC?

[jman98]

This won't help you much, but in America Westinghouse makes and sells 37" LCD monitors (no TV tuner of any kind) for about $1500 US that can do 1080p. Here's a link
https://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-56-7-37-1080p-monitor.aspx

[neomaine]

kurbads,

I've got no idea about Latvia, but Sceptre has a 42" 1080p LCD TV with vga: $1599US, the 37" is about $1299US. If you want something that is just a monitor and doesn't have a TV tuner. Then you could find something $100-$200 cheaper.

Good luck!

(And yes, a PC with a 1080p 37" or 42" monitor is GREAT! I actually had to set my video card to 1920x1200 vs 1920x1080 to get it to work...oh well)

[kurbads]

America Westinghouse models look promising (they realy do offer 1920x1080 resolution for PC), but are available only in America thru NewEgg.

Sceptre homepage has valuable FAQ and their TVs do offer "PC Input Max resolution 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz"

Does "ATSC Digital & NTSC Analog TV Tuner" mean that PAL broadcasts will be greyscale?

They are manufactured in Asia but are not sold in Europe!

Let me rephrase my question: Is there an over 37" LCD TV with true 1920x1080 PC ready resolution which is available in Europe for below $2000?

Look what an offer I got from Amason.com:

Items: $1,299.99
Shipping & Handling: $755.10
Total Before Tax: $2,055.09
Estimated Tax:* $0.00
Order Total: $2,055.09

I think Tax will be 18% VAT (item + delivery) + some 3% import tax (item). It results in around 2463$

If I want to stream DB through PC do I have to buy seperate tuner or the one in TV will do?

[edDV]

America Westinghouse models look promising (they realy do offer 1920x1080 resolution for PC), but are available only in America thru NewEgg.

Sceptre homepage has valuable FAQ and their TVs do offer "PC Input Max resolution 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz"

Does "ATSC Digital & NTSC Analog TV Tuner" mean that PAL broadcasts will be greyscale?

They are manufactured in Asia but are not sold in Europe!

Let me rephrase my question: Is there an over 37" LCD TV with true 1920x1080 PC ready resolution which is available in Europe for below $2000?

Look what an offer I got from Amason.com:

Items: $1,299.99
Shipping & Handling: $755.10
Total Before Tax: $2,055.09
Estimated Tax:* $0.00
Order Total: $2,055.09

I think Tax will be 18% VAT (item + delivery) + some 3% import tax (item). It results in around 2463$

If I want to stream DB through PC do I have to buy seperate tuner or the one in TV will do?

https://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-56-7-37-1080p-monitor.aspx
The Westinghouse models list no PAL or SD 720x576 or 25/50Hz compatibility. I'd advise against North American models. Find a Euro model or settle for a PC monitor instead of a TV.

The North American Septre models will probably have similar issues. The Europe Septre site seems to be listing only NTSC and ATSC models. Strange that.

An analog NTSC or digital ATSC tuner will be useless in Europe. Assuming 720x576 components and 50Hz. are even supported, you would need external tuners.

Before you buy any TV for computer display over components or DVI/HDMI, ask the company about overscan modes. Most HDTV sets will overscan 5-10% on the video inputs. Some operate without overscaan on specifically designated computer ports (usually VGA). In other words, expect it to behave like a TV unless you have proof it will act as a computer monitor and accept other than TV resolutions and frame rates.

[jman98]

America Westinghouse models look promising (they realy do offer 1920x1080 resolution for PC), but are available only in America thru NewEgg.

Umm, have you not heard of Best Buy and Crutchfield, both of whom sell the Westinghouse models? edDV's post about them not supporting PAL is a bit troubling to me. If that's important to you, I think the AVSforum has something dedicated to the Westinghouse models and it might be worth checking to see if this is really the case.

[kurbads]

have you not heard of Best Buy and Crutchfield

BestBuy and Crutchfield do not sell anything to Europe (they ask for Zip code for choosing delivery location, and certainly do not have an entry LV-1055 in the list), also 700$ for delivery from USA + 400$ import tax and VAT for 1300$ TV makes bargain worthless.

edDV's post about them not supporting PAL is a bit troubling to me. If that's important to you,

I wasn't aware about PAL vs. NTSC issue for HDTV at all. I thought with advent of HDTV the stupid TV standard difference is gone. Of course if PAL TV broadcasts will be in greyscale, it will be a little dissapointing. But if you have an external USB HDMI tuner for PC is there a difference of what kind the monitor is PAL or NTSC? By the way can aviscript be written to upsample and sharpen low resolution TV broadcasts on the fly (during watching)?

[edDV]

edDV's post about them not supporting PAL is a bit troubling to me. If that's important to you,

I wasn't aware about PAL vs. NTSC issue for HDTV at all. I thought with advent of HDTV the stupid TV standard difference is gone. Of course if PAL TV broadcasts will be in greyscale, it will be a little dissapointing. But if you have an external USB HDMI tuner for PC is there a difference of what kind the monitor is PAL or NTSC? By the way can aviscript be written to upsample and sharpen low resolution TV broadcasts on the fly (during watching)?

1. I'm wondering where one is going to get a 1280x720p/50 or 1920x1080i/25 broadcast in Latvia? Maybe only from a HD satellite or HD/BD DVD player?

2. If so, is PAL reception not important at all? Even if an external hardware PAL tuner (e.g. cable/sat box over YPbPr) will probably work feeding the TV, the 576 line and 25/50Hz LCD-TV issues need confirmation with the TV manufacturer. N. American models do not have SCART so forget using a VCR or normal DVD player without an RGB to YPbPr adapter.

3. DVI/HDMI will only work if the port ROM allows 576line 25/50Hz. formats. This is where manufacturers can purposely inhibit trans-shipping. Also, remember that a LCD-TV comes under TV import and RF emmissions rules and without proper emmissions tags, it may be blocked for import. This would likely be a big deal in Germany. You would need the assistance of the TV manufacturer or exporter on this issue.

My major point is why go the LCD-TV route at all in your case? You will be paying for useless NTSC and ASTC tuners. The remaining video monitor may or may not support 576 line and 25/50Hz.

The alternative is to fall into the HTPC (home theatre PC) architecture with tuner/capture cards in the PC or external over USB2 and a HD capable PC Monitor fed by a display card as VGA, DVI-I or HDMI. In N. America, this architecture works for over the air SD/HD tuner cards but cable/dbs boxes will output HD only over YPbPr and DVI/HDMI and it is illegal (in the USA and maybe Canada) to make a computer capture device capable of breaking encryption on these ports.

The output side requires an HD capable display card like ATI "AVIVA" or NVidia "Pure Video" to handle (scale and deinterlace) display to VGA/DVI-D PC monitors. These cards also output to normal HDTV sets over YPbPr, DVI-I (DVI-D + VGA) and sometimes HDMI.

HDMI is all about encryption management (HDCP). Commercial HD/BD DVD playback from an internal HD/BD DVD-ROM device will require a HDMI (with HDCP) display card. It is not clear yet that any current cards comply. Display card manufacturers have admitted that legacy DVI cards that were labeled "HDCP ready" will not work without retrofit. It is a big mess.

If I were you, I'd stay out of the N. American mess and stay with Eurocentric solutions. It may take longer to get what you want, but you will avoid one of a kind solution engineering issues and incompatible equipment.

[kurbads]

My major point is why go the LCD-TV route at all in your case? You will be paying for useless NTSC and ASTC tuners. The remaining video monitor may or may not support 576 line and 25/50Hz

LCD-TV route is the only choice in any case. Max LCD-monitor size is 24"!
Besides when buying "HDTV ready" LCD-TV there is no tuner.

The alternative is to fall into the HTPC (home theatre PC)

Can the Mac Mini (1.6 P4 dual core, 1024Mb-Dual channel-670Mhz-RAM, Intel 1920x1440 video, DVD superdrive, 80 Gb HDD) be turned into HTPC?

[edDV]

My major point is why go the LCD-TV route at all in your case? You will be paying for useless NTSC and ASTC tuners. The remaining video monitor may or may not support 576 line and 25/50Hz

LCD-TV route is the only choice in any case. Max LCD-monitor size is 24"!
Besides when buying "HDTV ready" LCD-TV there is no tuner.

The alternative is to fall into the HTPC (home theatre PC)

Can the Mac Mini (1.6 P4 dual core, 1024Mb-Dual channel-670Mhz-RAM, Intel 1920x1440 video, DVD superdrive, 80 Gb HDD) be turned into HTPC?

In the same way as a PC but the Mac is much less supported with tuner cards, PVR software and display options.

So lets start over to identify your needs.

- You want a big screen >24"
- You haven't told us how you intend to receive television. Normal PAL broadcasts? Cable? Direct Broadcast Satellite? DVD? HDDVD?
- Is High definition even a requirement?
- Why do you need a computer in the loop at all? Why wouldn't a good PAL flat screen TV fed by a DVD player and cable/sat tuners not serve your needs? What is the function of the computer? Would a Tivo type device or DVD recorder be a better solution for recording TV programs?

The HTPC architecture tries to do a home theater with a PC at the center. You need need input tuner options, you need core PVR software and you need display card output that matches the needs of a TV display (composite, component, interlace 576i/1080i, progressive 480p/720p/1080p). The types of components that you need go back to describing the types of signals you want to receive and record.

There are fully functional standard definition solutions for HTPC. If HD is required and everything must feed a progressive display at ~720p or 1080p, then you are into partial solutions much of it complicated by copy protection and inhibited inputs for high definition. The problems are induced by the program producers and government. Solutions are difficult to implement at the user level because at least in N. America and Japan, it has been made illegal to try to solve these issues as an individual if it means decrypting the signal in a way not "approved". Instead of HTPC, they want you to use a closed system DVR/PVR provided by the cable or DBS provider. Such systems are designed to purposely NOT interface with a PC. Likewise commercial HD/BD high definition DVD playback requires HDCP encryption management from the player to the monitor. None of that is yet avaialble for a HTPC. It will mean buying all new computer subsystems like display cards.

[kurbads]

Why do you need a computer in the loop at all?

I want to use an over 37 inch display primarily as a computer display at home.
I have 19 inch CRT display at work (I need CRT to see correct colors at work) and two 17 LCD monitors as satelites connected to network PCs. One network PC works as a router/server and is constantly on and open to internet, other dual core 64bit PC is for video encoding and central HT PC is for work. I have extended desktop to all monitors via MaxiVista. As a result I have 40 inch wide display with 3840x1024 resolution and also I can bring on satelite PCs to set their tasks.
So I have pretty get used to wide and high resolution workplace.
To set 3 monitors on one PC, I need a huge loud computer with many PCI-E or AGP8X slots or I need very expensive video card with three video outs. Instead the MacMini is extremely small and whisper quite PC and its video is not upgradable.
So I came up with idea - why culd not I use immense built in resolution of mac mini video card and connect 37" (not 24") LCD TV? Of course 1920x1080(1440) is only half of 3840x1024, but for home it will do. In case of any problems, I can stay away from TV in the loop instead.
To explore what we are talking about, I just downloaded 1280x584 HDTV rip of Baraka. It has a 29.97 fps which makes it an NTSC HDTV, I assume. It fits perfectly on my 19" 1280x960 workplace CRT. And I certainly want to see this picture on big screen at home.

[MJA]

say bye bye to Westinghouse.Toshiba is going to buy them

[kurbads]

say bye bye to Westinghouse.Toshiba is going to buy them

Bye, bye!

[edDV]

Why do you need a computer in the loop at all?

I want to use an over 37 inch display primarily as a computer display at home.
I have 19 inch CRT display at work (I need CRT to see correct colors at work) and two 17 LCD monitors as satelites connected to network PCs. One network PC works as a router/server and is constantly on and open to internet, other dual core 64bit PC is for video encoding and central HT PC is for work. I have extended desktop to all monitors via MaxiVista. As a result I have 40 inch wide display with 3840x1024 resolution and also I can bring on satelite PCs to set their tasks.

Impressive display system.

So I have pretty get used to wide and high resolution workplace.
To set 3 monitors on one PC, I need a huge loud computer with many PCI-E or AGP8X slots or I need very expensive video card with three video outs. Instead the MacMini is extremely small and whisper quite PC and its video is not upgradable.

The MacMini with Core2 Duo looks adequate but the display system is fairly limited and low end vs. the cards available for the PC's and higher end Macs. For HTPC approach, the PC is better than Mac with much greater support.

"Graphics and Video Support
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory(1)

-DVI video output to support digital resolutions up to 1920 by 1200 pixels; supports 20-inch Apple Cinema Display and 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display; supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz; supports noncoherent digital displays up to 135MHz

- VGA video output (using included adapter) to support analog resolutions up to 1920 by 1080 pixels

- S-video and composite video output to connect directly to a TV or projector (using Apple DVI to Video Adapter, sold separately) "

Intel GMA 950 graphics processor is about the same as what you would get with a low end PC. I'd rather have a PCIe slot with upgrade potential. Mac vs PC is a personal choice but I'd go to a higher end Mac with better display card support.

LCD-TV sets are very particular about what they will accept on the HDMI port. You need to research this carefully. Usually it will be limited to 1920x1080i (interlaced) or 1280x720p (progressive). 1080i will need to be deinterlaced and scaled to the LCD-TV native resolution (usually ~1366x768). 720p will need to be scaled to the LCD-TV native resolution. The HDMI port is also likely to overscan 5-10%. This will chop the edges of your menus off.

IMO a better interface solution is a VGA port which is usually spec'd in VESA resolutions (like WXGA 1366x768) and often does not overscan. Make sure the display card supports the native resolution of the LCD-TV and the LCD-TV does not overscan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_XGA

This is the best solution for computer display on a LCD-TV but it puts all the "TV" issues like capture and deinterlacing back on the computer and display card. This is where you need a flexible HTPC with expansion options for capture and replacable display cards.

So I came up with idea - why culd not I use immense built in resolution of mac mini video card and connect 37" (not 24") LCD TV? Of course 1920x1080(1440) is only half of 3840x1024, but for home it will do. In case of any problems, I can stay away from TV in the loop instead.

To explore what we are talking about, I just downloaded 1280x584 HDTV rip of Baraka. It has a 29.97 fps which makes it an NTSC HDTV, I assume. It fits perfectly on my 19" 1280x960 workplace CRT. And I certainly want to see this picture on big screen at home.

I think you are going to have a hard time finding a LCD-TV that will have a 1920x1080p native resolution and accept either VGA or HDMI at 1920x1080p. 1920x1080 progressive is an official VESA resolution but I think single link DVI has 5% overscan built into the spec. Dual Link is needed for full VESA 1920x1080 or above. Most LCD-TV sets are closer to WXGA 1366x768 or maybe UXGA 1600x1200. Next up is WUXGA at 1920x1200 which is dual link DVI (special display cards required).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI

So it seems like your interests are dominated by a need for large screen display and a LCD-TV is a strategy to get there. TV issues seem secondary.

[kurbads]

I came home and discovered my MacMini has Dual-DVI link. System Preferences show maximum resolution of 2048x1536@60Hz. I would not call it a fairly limited.

[edDV]

I came home and discovered my MacMini has Dual-DVI link. System Preferences show maximum resolution of 2048x1536@60Hz. I would not call it a fairly limited.

That is for use with a high end computer monitor not a LCD-TV. We are talking in circles here. The problem is the LCD-TV is a limited computer monitor with typical 1366x768 resolution and you need to work within the limitations of the LCD-TV.

As for the MacMini Intel 950 Graphics chipset, it is the same as you would find on most low end bargain PC's and lacks the sophisticated video processing you would find in a ATI "AVIVO" or Nvidia "Pure Video" card but I think we see that you don't care about video anyway so the MacMini should be fine and will handle 720p or VGA WXGA to a LCD-TV at 1366x768.

[kurbads]

LCD-TV is a limited computer monitor with typical 1366x768

Putting 1366x768 on 37" monitor is the same as if you put 640x480 on 19" monitor when optimal is 1280x720 (for 16:9) or 1280x960 (for 4:3) or 1280x1024 (for 5:4 - the default resolution of most 17"-19" LCD monitors).
You are right we are realy going in cycles. The problem is noone has answered the first question:
"Is there in the world an over 37" LCD TV with true 1920x1080 PC ready resolution? "
The answer is NO. And I would not recomend anybody to invest in anything less.

[SatStorm]

Search for "Amoi".

[neomaine]

Kurbads,

Hmmm. If it doesn't exist. Then I've been having alot of fun dreaming the last couple of months.

http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_X42GV-Naga.htm

I've had two Sceptre 19" LCDs (X9-Gamer) for over a year now and jumped at this TV once I saw what it had for options. First, I wasn't going to buy anything less than a 1080p since I was doing PC (and HD-DVD once its available for the Xbox360) on it. Otherwise, the price drops on the 720p models are great and would have gone with that. At 42" or less the difference (visually) between 720p and 1080p is negligable for most.

There are no 1080p LCDs out there? Hardly...

(PS: I actually set my resolution to 1920x1200 instead of 1920x1080 to get it to work. Nice and clean though)

[edDV]

Search for "Amoi".

Are you saying this monitor accepts 1920x1080p over VGA without overscan?

Why do they list WXGA as the connect feature?

Does the HDMI port accept 1080p or just 720p/1080i?

http://www.amoi.com/product/products_detail_specifications.asp#

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Video_Standards.PNG

[edDV]

Kurbads,

Hmmm. If it doesn't exist. Then I've been having alot of fun dreaming the last couple of months.

http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_X42GV-Naga.htm

and for a european version:

I've had two Sceptre 19" LCDs (X9-Gamer) for over a year now and jumped at this TV once I saw what it had for options. First, I wasn't going to buy anything less than a 1080p since I was doing PC (and HD-DVD once its available for the Xbox360) on it. Otherwise, the price drops on the 720p models are great and would have gone with that. At 42" or less the difference (visually) between 720p and 1080p is negligable for most.

There are no 1080p LCDs out there? Hardly...

(PS: I actually set my resolution to 1920x1200 instead of 1920x1080 to get it to work. Nice and clean though)

"PC VGA Max Resolution 1920 x 1080
Response Time 8 ms (Tr/Tf ms) "

"PC VGA Max Resolution 1920 xPC / Mac,
VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA/WXGA 1080"

"PC Input Max resolution 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz"

That one appears to do the job.

http://dealnews.com/deals/Sceptre-X42-GV-NAGA-42-1080-p-LCD-HDTV-from-1-600-shipped/132897.html

PS: 1920x1200 is WUXGA, that would need to be vertical scaled by the monitor or the monitor is cropping to 1920x1080.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WUXGA

[kurbads]

and for a european version:

What a european version?

No Menu chops for Westinghouse LVM-42W2 42" LCD at 1920x1080@60Hz

Maybe this is a European version:
Sceptre X37SV-Naga True 1920 x 1080p LCD display (Colour System NTSC / PAL / SECAM)

[neomaine]

kurbads,

Sorry about leaving off the European version of the Sceptre. I had meant to edit that out (and will). When I went to the Sceptre site and clicked on Europe on the opening page, it brought me right back to the same product lisintgs, so I thought. I had intended to add the link for you if there was one but didn't find one. Maybe you have.

Either way, the point was that there ARE 1080p LCD TVs or monitors available out there.

edDV,

It must be rescaling since I'm not seeing anything cropped, the whole desktop is available. Thanks for the lookups for letting me understand how/why, though. Much appreciated.

[purush]

Either way, the point was that there ARE 1080p LCD TVs or monitors available out there.

Yes there is one the new Aquos Sharp LCD TV LC-37D9OU, with a native resolution of 1920x1080. I am thinking of buying this as I have ATI Radeon 1600 Pro PCIe card. Check this out at Sharp website. I too would like to know whether this monitor can be used with DVI connector to run in the maximum resolution while computing. Anyone
Peter

[edDV]

Either way, the point was that there ARE 1080p LCD TVs or monitors available out there.

Yes there is one the new Aquos Sharp LCD TV LC-37D9OU, with a native resolution of 1920x1080. I am thinking of buying this as I have ATI Radeon 1600 Pro PCIe card. Check this out at Sharp website. I too would like to know whether this monitor can be used with DVI connector to run in the maximum resolution while computing. Anyone
Peter

Download the manual. If it isn't there, ask the manufacturer. Expect unless you know otherwise that the DVI port will overscan 5-10% and will probably be 1080i with the monitor performing the deinterlace to 1080p. If it is 1080p it may be 24p like ATSC 1080p. Remember DVI is the video port. Never assume. If you get it wrong you may be back to 720p or ugly (for destop) 1080i.

[purush]

Wide XGA (1920 x 1080) Resolution
Displays HDTV program images in 1080p and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts.


HDTV Tuner
HDTV with built-in DTV terrestrial ATSC decoder


High Brightness (450 cd/m² )
AQUOS™ Liquid Crystal Televisions are incredibly bright. You can put them anywhere -- even near windows, doors or other light sources -- and the picture will still be vivid.


True Contrast Ratio (1200:1)
The 1200:1 true contrast ratio creates images with pure whites and deeper blacks.


Quick Shoot Technology
Sharp's proprietary Quick Shoot technology enables a response time of less than 6ms for high-speed images


4-Wavelength Backlight System
Provides enhanced color reproduction with deeper, more vivid reds than previously possible


Wide Viewing Angles (176º H / 176º V)
The ultra-wide viewing angles allow you to view the tv clearly from virtually anywhere in the room!


2 HDMI Inputs
With 2 HDMI inputs you'll be able to connect to current and future high-definition devices


DVI Input
The LC37D90U can double as a PC mointor for added versatiilty.


Other
Product specifications and design subject to change without notice. E.&O.E.

* actual viewable screen size 37 1/64'' measured diagonally

[purush]

I have posted the specs for the Aquos Sharp 37 LCDTV. Please submit your views on it as I depend on your exptertise. I am hell bent to get this baby if only I could be assured of its capability meaning getting the full resolution of 1920x1080 with my DVI connector for running my PC.

Thanks
Peter

[edDV]

Wide XGA (1920 x 1080) Resolution

XGA is 1024x768
SXGA is 1280x1024
WXGA ranges from 1280x768 to 1366x768
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_XGA

1920x1080p is a supported Vesa resolution as is 1920x1200 WUXGA.

They must be upscaling to 1920x1080 not accepting 1920x1080. I'd talk to them.

Displays HDTV program images in 1080p and is compatible with off-air (terrestrial), cable and satellite HDTV broadcasts.

There are no 1080p broadcasts currently. They seem to say they are converting 720p (upscale) or 1080i (deinterlace) to 1080p.

[neomaine]

purush,

Sharp has some damn nice TV's and the Aquos line is at the top of the LCD world. If you'd give us the model number, we can put those general specs in perspective with the actual hardware specs.

[purush]

"They must be upscaling to 1920x1080 not accepting 1920x1080. I'd talk to them".

I believe the majority of LCDTV 's coming now are all maxed to 1366x768, as for the LCDTV in question it is basically a 1366x768 but is upscaled to 1920x1080. Does it mean one cannot set this monitor to the highest reported resolution while connected to DVI for use as PC. If done it would just give me 1366x768. Is this correct ?
FYI neomaine the model no I am refering to is LC37-D9OU.
Peter