How to edit CD track or Mp3 track attributes ?

[Mark97213]

I'm trying to make custom CD's. Recording them into a compiled CD is pretty simple enough using "IBM Record now" or windows media player but, editing the tracks title or attributes (such as the Artist or Album name) before burning them onto a mixed CD doesn't seem to be too easy. Trying to do any Mp3 "track attributes" editing isn't easy either. Is there a application that will allow me to, not only burn audio tracks into one CD, but one that will allow me to edit each tracks attributes before burning onto a CD?

I need to do this beacuse the new Pioneer stereo in my truck has a hard drive in it that allows me to record cd's onto it's hard drive while they play. The problem is that once the tracks are on the hard drive it separates and categorizes the tracks based on each tracks initial attributes. And most Mp3's, don't seem to have much in the way of attributes and aren't
recognized so they become classified as "unkown".

You see this when you put older CD's into your CD drive on your pc. Although they play fine, the PC doesn't recognize them. I just want to make them recognizable.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[mats.hogberg]

For MP3s there's the id3 tag, for audio CDs it's CD Text. Nero adds the latter automatically if you create a CD from MP3.
I don't think commercial CDs have any CD Text info at all (hence the popularity of CDDB).

/Mats

[Cornucopia]

Yes, there are commercial CD's with CD-Text (mainly Sony/CBS). CDDB is still great at filling in the gaps, though.

Scott

[Ai Haibara]

You can also try the musicbrainz.org clients to attempt to better fill in the ID3 tag info and name for the MP3s, if you want.

[Mark97213]

Hmm... Interesting. Many thanks everyone.... I'll try them all!

[Mark97213]

Which Nero application is best?

[DarrellS]

I wouldn't recommend Nero for tagging. I spent hours typing all the info, only to have Nero ignore it all.

MusicMatch Jukebox 7.5 worked great for me.

[Mark97213]

Ya... I did something similar using something a while back (names escapes me now) and after entering Artist, Album Title, Track Title, Genre, Author, etc., on about 20 songs, none of it actually was recognized on the CD , , , pointless! I'll give Musicmatch a shot as well.

[mats.hogberg]

Thing is, not many (if any) CD players notice CD Text. So, that it's not recognized is not a problem in the creation end - it's a player problem.

/Mats

[DarrellS]

Thing is, not many (if any) CD players notice CD Text. So, that it's not recognized is not a problem in the creation end - it's a player problem.

But windows based players do and if your PC player doesn't read the tags from a CD made with Nero but it will read the tags from a CD made with MusicMatch then I would think that it is in the creation process.

[Mark97213]

My problem isn't with CD text, it's just with the CD tagged info., or the lack of it. These are two different things aren't they??? I'm not sure

[mats.hogberg]

What's "CD tagged info"? A Google search for the term turns up 0 results...

/Mats

[Cornucopia]

DarrellS, I think you're mixing up a couple of things:

Hardware CD players can get text from Audio CDs in only 1 way: CDText.
They can get text from mp3s in 2 ways: Filename/Folder and ID3 tag (some do one or other, some do both)

Software CD players have the added capability of getting text info from couple more places: Internet (cddb.org, freecddb, etc) and local Windows registry (like WindowsMediaPlayer can).
These software players either do what the hardware players do (read disc data) or they check track length, gap length, total tracks, etc and compare to one of those databases. If they find a match, that's what'll show up (even if it isn't correct--this has happened to me). Could be that MusicMatch is ADDING the current burn to cddb database (whereas Nero might not), so that when it gets played, it "sees" its listing/match on the internet. But there is no "tag" being burned to the disc in either case. A simple test of taking MM-burned CD to a new PC w/o internet access will show this (won't have a match--no info).

Scott

[DarrellS]

I tested three CDs that I've made...

CD 1 was made with EZ CD Creator and when I open it with MM Jukebox, it asks to access the internet and when I say no, it lists track 1, track 2 etc...

CD 2 was made with Nero and when I open it with MM Jukebox, it asks to access the internet and when I say no, it lists track 1, track 2 etc...

CD 3 was made with MM Jukebox and when I open it with MM Jukebox, it does not ask to access the internet but lists...

1 "name of song" by artist
2 "name of song" by artist
3 "name of song" by artist

etc...

I unplugged my internet connection so it has to be getting this info off of the disc. None of the other software players that I have are able to read this info though but since MM Jukebox is the only software that I use to listen and record music then that's OK with me.

I don't own any store bought CDs so I don't know how they act. All my CDs are back-up copies of my cassette tape collection that I have manually tagged and although I play them through my stereo with my DVD player, I like to listen to them on the PC through my Turtle Beach sound card an Altec Lansing speaker system. I don't own a hardware CD player in my truck or my home. Just the two PC combo drives and two DivX DVD players.

[Cornucopia]

Let me guess, CD#3 was burned on the same PC that you're playing it on (through MM)? That's because MM keeps a log/database of things it has burned. This will be no good if you put it in another computer (which doesn't have Inet access).

IOW, it's not getting it off the disc, it's getting it off it's RecentItems listing.

I'm glad that works for you in your situation, but you'd just see [Track01, Track02, etc] on anybody else's system (hardware or software, MM installed or not), with the exception where you've "uploaded" your custom CD info to the cddb so others could reference it.

That's one of the good things about standards--when companies actually follow it, it makes for better inter-company communication, transportability and cooperation (aka your stuff works on many machines). CD-Text and ID3tags are examples (former poor supported, latter moderately supported).

Scott

[Mark97213]

Well... I edited each tracks tag using MM J for 3 cd's and thought all would be well. Burned them onto CD's and ran 'em through the my trucks deck. NO GO! Didn't display anything that I just re-tagged. Although like you stated, my pc will display the tag info but that's probably just trracers left by MM.

So, there is no real way to edit then burn Tracks info (tag) when your creating a CD from mixed tracs? No real tagger that will truly edit a CD's tag . . . permanently?

Seems as though it should be fairly simple. If you can edit a CD's volume label, why couldn't thhe same be true with editing a tracks tag?

[MOVIEGEEK]

As was stated:reading CD-Text or file names depends on the player,factory installed players have poor reading abilities.Almost all aftermarket players nowadays support CD-Text and most support compressed audio(MP3,WMA,AAC).
I would get a Pioneer,Alpine or JVC deck.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I don't own a hardware CD player in my truck or my home. Just the two PC combo drives and two DivX DVD players.

My God man how can you stand taking trips without tunes?

[Cornucopia]

Well... I edited each tracks tag using MM J for 3 cd's and thought all would be well. Burned them onto CD's and ran 'em through the my trucks deck. NO GO! Didn't display anything that I just re-tagged. Although like you stated, my pc will display the tag info but that's probably just trracers left by MM.

So, there is no real way to edit then burn Tracks info (tag) when your creating a CD from mixed tracs? No real tagger that will truly edit a CD's tag . . . permanently?

Seems as though it should be fairly simple. If you can edit a CD's volume label, why couldn't thhe same be true with editing a tracks tag?

Maybe it wasn't spelled out as succinctly before--standard AudioCD's DON'T have "tags" of any kind (barring CD-Text or CD+G encoding). That's why I was suggesting CD-Text. Oh, and BTW, AudioCD's don't have VolumeLabels either. That's part of the ISO9660(or bridge) filesystem of CDROMs and related formats. No file (track) record date either.

Scott

[Mark97213]

I suppose I just a novice at all this... please help me understand. I can insert an audio CD in my trucks pioneer deck and the album title and each track is displayed on the screen just fine and I can record them onto the hard drive as well

On my Downloaded various Mp3's, the album title and track titles appear just fine on the PC but
when I burn them onto a CD on my PC with some will display, some will only display as "track 02" for example.

I thought this info that displays was called a "tracks tag" and I've been trying various apps to try and edit this in order for it to display correctly in my trucks deck.

So I take it thay these tag apps are only for the PC and there's no way to edit a tracks tag that will display in a audio deck?

[mats.hogberg]

Unless your audio deck supports CD Text for Audio CD, or if it plays MP3 and supports id3 tags, you're out of luck.

/Mats

[Cornucopia]

What's your truck's Pioneer model#?

Scott

[Mark97213]

It's the Pioneer AVIC-Z1. If you go to this url, page down to the 5th, 6th & 7th photo's, you'll see photo's of the display and why I really need correct cd info.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/review/pioneer-avic-z1-navigation-system-with-cd...00ii-ipod-ada/

I always thought "CD Text" was an older technology available on only a select few home audio CD players which would display a cd's info through your home audio onto your TV via a text compulink cable such with a JVC home CD player.

Aren't all, or most anyway, Audio CD's encoded with tag info? I know I can select just about any of my manufactured audio CD's and the CD's tag info will display on both my PC and on my truck's deck.

By the way, thanks guys, I really do appreciate all your help and insight with this.

[Cornucopia]

http://www.mobilewhack.com/reviews/pioneer_avic-z1_all-in-one_navigation_system.html

As an added convenience, the unit includes the Gracenote CDDBä Music Recognition Service, which automatically associates information to downloaded music content including the artist name, song title, genre and album title. The AVIC-Z1’s voice recognition feature allows you to directly access the music library content, by saying the artist name, song title, genre, or album title.

It has on-board cddb database. That's great for already existing standard AudioCD tracks (it references by Track#/PauseLength/TrackLength etc), but will almost always fail with compilation CD's and with custom edited tracks and with originally recorded/produced tracks. Only way it might work would be if you were able to update it's database. Since it doesn't mention anything about that, and doesn't have internet access, the chances are very slim (although there does seem to be capability to remove and hack the harddrive, acc'd to mp3car forum guys).

This unit does read MP3 CD's, as well as DVD's (though not sure about MP3-DVD's), but doesn't utilize CD-Text.

CD-Text, BTW, is usually only read on the LCD faceplate/dashboard of a unit; rarely does it spit out a stream to TV/display.

AGAIN, AudioCD's have NO tag info. cddb is a behind the scenes trick that does something like this...

1. Put disc in.
2. Read # tracks, order, list length of each track and pause between (No tag/text at this point).
3. Create a Hash/Checksum that is a Unique ID for this combination of lengths.
4. Cross-reference with database of Known ID's.
5. If match, read out database text contents.

That's it. See the weak point? (#4, #5).

Scott

[Mark97213]

Hmmm . . . interesting! We'll at least I've learned something from all this. I guess I was mixing up the cddb base with individual audio tagging and how they both really work. Was always curious what that "Gracenote" icon display on the screen was for . . . thought it was a utility for recording onto the HD. Makes sense as to why it wouldn't let me manually edit various compiled CD's on a few that I did get compiled. All makes sense now.

That's for your patience with me scott.