Flash cards as new media for video?

[alegator]

Today Sandisk announced 16Gb compact flash cards. Aside from the price being way higher than any other media, with that capacity there's plenty of room for a 1hour15min of HDV. I see the day coming when flash drives will be used instead of hard drives to store video...!
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06092603_sandiskextremelll.asp

[drjtech]

The 16GB unit is priced at 1049.99 - that's only about $65 per GB. It wasn't that long ago than 1GB Compact Flash sold for over $200. I expect history to repeat itself and it won't be long before prices drop.

BTW, Samsung announced 32GB flash two weeks ago:

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20060911_0000286548#

The 32Gb NAND flash memory can be used in memory cards with densities of up to 64-Gigabytes (GBs). One 64GB card can store over 64 hours of DVD resolution movies (40 movies) or 16,000 MP3 music files (1,340 hours).

-drjtech

[energy80s]

Actually a lot of broadcasters are going "tapeless" soon. We had a Panasonic P2 camera in for tests a few months ago. It records onto PCMCIA cards and will do HD. However it only allows for about half an hour in SD (a few mins in HD) and each card costs a fortune, so we aren't in any rush to buy one anytime soon.

But once solid state memory REALLY drops in price, I can see all recordable media going that way. The Hard drive systems like the iPOD for music and the Sony DigiBeta XD Cam for TV are only a short term solution.

[LOWTECH]

It seems pretty certain that CD`s and DVD`S are on their way out, I give it 5 years.... Tapes, Records, Cd`s and DVD`s consigned to history.......Are SD Cards and Memory sticks the next new future?

[jimbucc]

CDs and DVDs for recording will only be replaced by solid state media when they can match the price. You can get CDs for free after rebate and some DVDs - not the premium ones but good enough.
I would love to see solid state media replace CDs and DVDs but I don't see it happening any time soon.

JB

[LOWTECH]

SD cards are in use in UK now with some HI-FI units. 1GB SD cards holding 250 tracks or 15 Cds and at a cheap cost of £10. Can also be played in MP3 players and not doubt in car stereo`s. Easy to keep in your wallet and good for quick transfer and copying. SD cards are great for Music, Data, Films, Photo`s and Video in Digi Camera`s.

So much smaller to carry around and store than bulky CDs and DVD Cases

[alegator]

Not to mention the safety which is 1000's better than CD/DVD''s , tapes and even more, HD's.

[alegator]

http://news.com.com/Robson+or+hybrid+hard+drive+The+battle+is+coming/2100-1004_3-61212...l?tag=nefd.top

[normcar]

Actually these cards with flash memory are considered the best and safest long term storage media available. Their logevity and reliability exceed all other media such as HD, CD, DVD, and Tape.

Now just get the prices waaaaaay down, and increase speed, and you have the most perfect storage available.

[alegator]

Actually these cards with flash memory are considered the best and safest long term storage media available. Their logevity and reliability exceed all other media such as HD, CD, DVD, and Tape.

Now just get the prices waaaaaay down, and increase speed, and you have the most perfect storage available.

I agree 100%

[CogoSWSDS]

normcar wrote:

Actually these cards with flash memory are considered the best and safest long term storage media available. Their logevity and reliability exceed all other media such as HD, CD, DVD, and Tape.

Sorry normcar, I have to disagree with you. I've had more than one flash memory card fail to the point where I could not read any data off of it. Most recently was a 256MB SanDisk SD card, which could read in the computer but the camera refused to recognize it. Replaced it with an older 128MB Lexar card in the camera and it worked just fine.

I have an old 16MB Compact Flash card (SanDisk) that is still going strong. Seems to me that the higher capacity cards are less reliable.

All this is personal experience. Your experience may be different. I've had better luck with optical media for storage than solid state. Until the reliability improves, I will be storing my digital still images on my hard drive and backing them up to optical media (CD).

CogoSWSDS

[alegator]

Cogo, the problem that you report with the 256MB Sandisk SD card has nothing to do with the reliability of it. It is very common that if you format the card with the PC it won't be read afterwards by the camera and the same is true the other way. It is safer to format/write to cards with a single device. I've been using flash cards of all sorts (SD, CF,etc) since their inception years ago, starting from 8MB up to 2Gb currently for backup of critical files and also for regular use both in my PC as well as cameras and camcorders and never had a single problem With proper handling and usage they should be the most reliable backup media.

[oldandinthe way]

Flash will be the primary media for all software, music and video in a few years.

Sandisk and PNY already have strategies for using their flash drives to contain all user specific software and data. A user will plug his flash in, be logged on a system and will operate froom the flash. When he logs off he takes his flash and the system will show no trace of him.

The cost curve is dropping so fast that we can expect flash for video distribution the be economically viable before HD-DVD reaches high volume acceptance. Retail cost of flash in 1gb and 2gb is currently at $20/gig or less. Expect drops every three months.

[alegator]

Flash Gordon will soon save us all!

[kschang]

Prices are dropping fast. I've seen some 4GB or 8GB for sale under $100 nowadays.

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayitem.cfm/70604

However, it's doubtful whether it will get close to Winchester HD's in capacity.

[tweedledee]

I think flash cards are terrific. I run Firefox and thunderbird from one, and it leaves no history on the PC.

[jsmithepa]

None of u people are economist are u?

Cost to mass produce a DVD, less than a buck. Flash how much? Yeah, flash$ is gonna drop, but ur gonna have grandchildren before a 16gig flash sell under a buck, by then there will terabyte DVDs.

Possible? Of course. Cost effective? Don't hold your breath.

[tweedledee]

None of u people are economist are u?

Cost to mass produce a DVD, less than a buck. Flash how much? Yeah, flash$ is gonna drop, but ur gonna have grandchildren before a 16gig flash sell under a buck, by then there will terabyte DVDs.

Possible? Of course. Cost effective? Don't hold your breath.

This is a bit like comparing motor cars with push bikes. you can move info on and off flash drives with the click of a mouse, they don't scratch, and are easy to carry. I don't think many would walk around with a terabyte DVD in their pocket. I probably get more use (value for money) from my flash drive than any DVD I own.

[jsmithepa]

This is a bit like comparing motor cars with push bikes. you can move info on and off flash drives with the click of a mouse, they don't scratch, and are easy to carry.

I never said flash was bad. I said NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

I don't think many would walk around with a terabyte DVD in their pocket.

People are walking around with 80 gig iPods, small notebooks with 300 gig, NOW.

I probably get more use (value for money) from my flash drive than any DVD I own.

I think what you are saying is, you are willing to pay for a small and carefree media. That's fine and dandy, but it's NOT value.

[tweedledee]

[

I don't think many would walk around with a terabyte DVD in their pocket.

People are walking around with 80 gig iPods, small notebooks with 300 gig, NOW.

I still reckon that an I-Pod or notebook is a bit more useful than a DVD disc when you're out and about in the city,( I suppose you could comb your hair in the reflection) and as far as I'm concerned flash cards are good value for money. Simply being cheaper does not mean value for money.

[alegator]

When flash memory will drop Ipod Nano's and flash players will trash Ipods. People that use 80Gig Ipods are not technology literate, 99% of Ipod users don't know that they are carrying a hard drive inside with all the associated risk. I've been using flash based MP3 players always, I can flip them , shake them, go running, and be 100% with peace of mind that it'll keep working. I would never spend a cent in an Ipod, or for that matter in any hard drive based player.

[tweedledee]

I've been using flash based MP3 players always, I can flip them , shake them, go running, and be 100% with peace of mind that it'll keep working. I would never spend a cent in an Ipod, or for that matter in any hard drive based player.

Very true, although I have a Vosonic X-drive 40GB which is handy for my photos. I believe that flash drives will spell the end for shiny disc media.

[LOWTECH]

None of u people are economist are u?

Cost to mass produce a DVD, less than a buck. Flash how much? Yeah, flash$ is gonna drop, but ur gonna have grandchildren before a 16gig flash sell under a buck, by then there will terabyte DVDs.

Possible? Of course. Cost effective? Don't hold your breath.

DVD`s will go the same way as LP Records, in 5 years their use will drop dramaticly as progress to SD Cards etc increases, and DVD players disappear along with with Video payers that are now being faded out. To put a 2GB SD Card now in my HI-FI, download up to 500 tracks on it. Then use the Same SD Card to play in my MP3 player or the Car Stereo all on something the size of a postage stamp, a brilliant invention.

I can even take 200 snaps and shoot 10 mins of DVD Video with my Digi camera on one 2 GB SD Card......... I can keep a couple of SD Cards in my wallet, not so with CD or DVD Discs.

The future is no more Disc Burning, put it straight onto a Media Card. Terabyte DVD`s I don`t think so, too much info to be lost if damaged or lost in one go, and too late now as SD Cards are gaining pace......and far smaller.

50 SD CARDS take up so liitle room compared to 50 DVD CASES.

Sadly like past Single Record`s and LP`s, Audio and Video Tapes, present CD`s and DVD`s will enter the history books and you won`t have anything left to collect with a COVER on it, as it will be too small to read what`s printed on a MEDIA CARD, or even worse on a HARD DRIVE with nothing........

Some you win, some you loose?

[alegator]

None of u people are economist are u?

Cost to mass produce a DVD, less than a buck. Flash how much? Yeah, flash$ is gonna drop, but ur gonna have grandchildren before a 16gig flash sell under a buck, by then there will terabyte DVDs.

Possible? Of course. Cost effective? Don't hold your breath.

Talking about economics, what drives the economy is productivity. New more efficient and safer technologies prevail in the end because the use of it has precisely that, economic advantages. Can you imagine all the economic benefit obtained from flash memories? No more need for replacing failed hard drives, no more defragging and maintenance, no more bottlenecks from hard drive low response, less physical space needed and better thermal efficiency. The economic benfit is so huge as compared to hard drvies, CD's/DVD's that the fate of them is unavoidable. Change will happen sooner than you think. It's the economy...

[CogoSWSDS]

Alegator wrote:

Cogo, the problem that you report with the 256MB Sandisk SD card has nothing to do with the reliability of it. It is very common that if you format the card with the PC it won't be read afterwards by the camera and the same is true the other way. It is safer to format/write to cards with a single device. I've been using flash cards of all sorts (SD, CF,etc) since their inception years ago, starting from 8MB up to 2Gb currently for backup of critical files and also for regular use both in my PC as well as cameras and camcorders and never had a single problem With proper handling and usage they should be the most reliable backup media.

Don't get me wrong, Flash memory is great for what I use it for right now - temporary storage until I can transfer the data to something else. My wife and I use SD flash memory in our digital camera all the time. What we don't do is install drivers on the computer for the digital camera and use a USB cable to transfer the data from the camera. Instead we pop the memory card out of the camera and into the card reader/writer on the PC. The PC reads the flash memory as formatted by the camera just fine. I would not trust my precious family photos to flash memory for permanent storage, nor would I trust my family videos to flash memory. Of course, if the reliability improves, then it would be something I would consider in the future.

How long ago did CD-R come out - 1997? CD-R is still quite popular and most computers sold on the market now no longer come with floppy drives - they come with CD or DVD burners. CD-R and DVD+-R will be around for a while yet.

Don't get me wrong, flash memory has its place and I do use it - just not for long-term storage of things that are not replaceable. I don't even really trust hard drives for long-term storage (5+ years) - optical media, OTOH, seems to fit the bill for us, at least for now.


Alegator also wrote:

When flash memory will drop Ipod Nano's and flash players will trash Ipods. People that use 80Gig Ipods are not technology literate, 99% of Ipod users don't know that they are carrying a hard drive inside with all the associated risk. I've been using flash based MP3 players always, I can flip them , shake them, go running, and be 100% with peace of mind that it'll keep working. I would never spend a cent in an Ipod, or for that matter in any hard drive based player.

I agree with you here - flash memory is ideal for this sort of thing. I wouldn't want to use a HDD based player to carry around with me - Hard disks are too fragile, especially with fumble-fingered users such as myself dropping them. Flash memory is physically more able to withstand typical drops and shock - of course I would want the music or data backed up somewhere else as well and not have my only copy be on the player. And if the card in the player goes bad, I can always buy another card for a few bucks and plug into the player (assuming it has that option) with the data/music copied over from my backup.

CogoSWSDS

[Lenny_Nero]

How long ago did CD-R come out - 1997? CD-R is still quite popular and most computers sold on the market now no longer come with floppy drives - they come with CD or DVD burners. CD-R and DVD+-R will be around for a while yet.

Try almost 20 years before that, apart from the fact that you can use optical media over and over again, where most flash types of media have a limited amount of write times. There is the fact of just how much data I can have in a small DVD case, the one next to me takes 120 DVD's and is not much bigger than a book, I see nothing happening to optical media, apart from it getting better over the next 20 years.

I also wont get into the vinyl thing, the death of the record is greatly exaggerated and in fact in the UK record and player sales are up second or third year in a row, because the CD just cant come close to it for sonic ability, there is nothing like going back while thinking your going forward.

[normcar]

Don't get me wrong, Flash memory is great for what I use it for right now - temporary storage until I can transfer the data to something else. ... I would not trust my precious family photos to flash memory for permanent storage, nor would I trust my family videos to flash memory. Of course, if the reliability improves, then it would be something I would consider in the future.

Don't get me wrong, flash memory has its place and I do use it - just not for long-term storage of things that are not replaceable. I don't even really trust hard drives for long-term storage (5+ years) - optical media, OTOH, seems to fit the bill for us, at least for now.

Actually, flash memory is considered more reliable for long term storage than any other media. Most media max out at about 5-7 yrs for long term storage, where flash memory is considered safe for much longer.

CDs & DVDs, especially DVDRs are going to "rust" on the surface, and eventually be unreadable (I've heard about 5-7 yrs). HDs max out at about 5 yrs of life (the HD manufactures know not to extend warrantees beyond periods when they know are unstable product life). Tape storage is even shorter.

Flash memory is considered safe beyond 10 yrs.

[roma_turok]

Samsung introduces working prototype of PRAM
As the PRAM can rewrite data without having to first erase data previously accumulated, it is effectively 30-times faster than conventional flash memory. It is also expected to have at least 10-times the endurance of the conventional flash memory, Samsung added.

Samsung also said the PRAM's cell size is only half the size of NOR flash memory. In addition, its PRAM requires 20 percent fewer process steps than those for the manufacturing of NOR flash, making it cheaper to produce.

Samsung claimed the PRAM would become a competitive choice over NOR flash, with availability beginning sometime in 2008.
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=192700709