Wav compression? 90 minutes of audio to 700MB (80 min) CD

[raquete]

about the mike47's ideas:

8) ...cool ideas that works

[chulew]

From Wikipedia:

A device that turns an analog audio signal into PCM audio, which in turn is changed into an analog video signal is called a PCM adaptor. This technology could store six samples (three samples per each stereo channel) in a single horizontal line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc

This sounds like it could use the concept of "parallel" stereo channels and actually read them serially, alternating back and forth.

[Cornucopia]

mike47, you must not have seen my past "put up or shut up" posts...

To clear this up once and for all, I just now DL'd "DeepBurner", installed it. Took a Mono, LPCM, 44k, 16bit WAV file of ~38seconds (=~3.3MB), took same file in audio editor and changed to Dual Mono. Same length is now =~6.7MB. Burned both to separate tracks on AudioCD in DeepBurner. Guess what...

BOTH are 6.7MB on the AudioCD! Just like we told you.

Now, unless you can give us a step-by-step guide of how you "successfully" achieved the impossible (so that we can confirm or disprove it), don't keep spouting your BS.

Scott

[Cornucopia]

Chelew, that PCM adaptor was for use only in allowing the recording of digital audio onto Umatic/Beta/VHS videocassettes for archiving and mastering purposes (esp. before burnable CDs). What it's talking about was the use of 3 sample worths (aka 3/44100) per video line (from the standard 525 line frame). These are written and read in checkerboard fashion to keep the L + R channels in as close sync as possible (w/ only small 1 sample buffer needed for L channel). In a sense, these are "packetized" and interleaved. Has NOTHING to do with what we've been talking about.

BTW, I used to record on those beasts all the time in the '80s-early'90s. Believe me, you wouldn't want to have to mess with one now that we've all been spoiled by WAV & CD-R, etc.

Scott

[chulew]

Does a CD contain the instructions (algorithm) for decoding its contents? Can it tell a standard player to take one frame of the CD datatrack and play each stereo channel frame sequentially instead of synchronously? And if it can, is this a valid standard for CD LPCM audio (all cd players must be able to do it)? My guess is that it is not standard but may very well work sometimes.

[Cornucopia]

Does a CD contain the instructions (algorithm) for decoding its contents? Can it tell a standard player to take one frame of the CD datatrack and play each stereo channel frame sequentially instead of synchronously? And if it can, is this a valid standard for CD LPCM audio (all cd players must be able to do it)? My guess is that it is not standard but may very well work sometimes.

Good question, but NO. An AudioCD is VERY minimal in what it contains AFA control. Just a few flags for "copy protected/not", "audio/data", "2ch/4ch(NEVER used)" and "HiFreqPreEmphasis/None" and the simple TOC and timing data that is in the subcode to keep things synced up/buffered. The main data stream is only the raw LPCM samples themselves interleaved with error-detection/correction code (and the subcode flags I just mentioned). That's it.

Now, it would be interesting to see what what happen to players if one could burn an AudioCD with the "4ch" flag turned on, but in all my years, I have never been able to get any CD burning app to accept it--they ALWAYS convert it back to the standard 2ch.

It's back to the drawing board (and the original suggestions).

Scott

[AlanHK]

STOP trying to discredit me until you have done it . mono files take up less space and subsequently you get more audio on to a CDR

You're burning WAV files as data. Not an audio CD. Many CD or DVD players will read the wave file, but it's not an audio CD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc
The technical format of an audio compact disc (Compact Disc Digital Audio -- CDDA) is laid down in a document produced in 1980 by the format's joint creators, Sony and Philips. The document is known colloquially as the "Red Book" after the colour of its cover. The format is a two-channel 16-bit PCM encoding at a 44.1 kHz sampling rate.... he smallest entity in the CD audio format is called a frame. A frame can accommodate six complete 16-bit stereo samples

Whatever you're making may work in some players, but they're not audio CDs.

Hmm... I see I've written "not audio CD" three times (now four). But it seems necessary to beat this into the ground.

[SingSing]

The data on an audio Cd is very different from a wave file. Audio CD sound track includes error correction and formating data. The overhead is about 13%.

Wave files on CD is not an audio CD.

This is the same as mpeg2 on DVD+/-R is not a Video DVD.

[raquete]

do you want a surprise?
burn one interleaved track(6-channels wave file) 44100/16bit as audio cd(nero don't refuse).
now take to your cd player and hear...
later take to your dvdplayer with DDdecoder using optical or coaxial cable and tell me what you here!!!

[raquete]

@ chulew
one possible solution... if you don't mind to hear as "mono" or better,left or right:

divide the whole track in the middle(or in any transition in the middle of the track)
create one new track and copy middle of the track in left channel and the other middle in the right channel.
you only need to adjust the balance and will need 1/2 of the full size....650Mb media is enought!
cool or lame

[piano632]

Don't some Plextor burners have something called VariRec or GigaRec that alters the size of the pits so you can fit as much as 1 GB on a CD? Not sure how playable the discs would be, and they might be as unpredictable as 90/99 min. CD's.

[AlanHK]

@ chulew
one possible solution... if you don't mind to hear as "mono" or better,left or right:

divide the whole track in the middle(or in any transition in the middle of the track)
create one new track and copy middle of the track in left channel and the other middle in the right channel.
you only need to adjust the balance and will need 1/2 of the full size....650Mb media is enought!
cool or lame

But was it cool when I suggested that? Or when Cornucopia did?

[raquete]

you're right,completely right!!
...and trust me, only after i posted that i start to read the thread from the begining...receive my excuse ... but,at the same time,i confirm your hint,or better,it's not a hint,is one solution

[abrogard]

God i enjoyed reading this thread..