windv can it work in safe mode dropped frames issue

[jezzer]

im getting dropped frames and ive turned off everything i can think off,but to make sure everything is off can i run win dv in safe mode?

my hard drive should be fast enough and ive gots lots of space and i keep doing a defrag,my hard drive is Western Digital Caviar 250GB,ive also got 1gig of memory

so in theory i should have no problems

editk it cant be done
how would i know if its my hard drive that is slowing down i dont mind buying another hard drive just for editing ,but i dont want to buy one if thats is not the problem

edit:ive just looked up my hard drive and its specs are:

250 GB, 100 MB/s, 8 MB Cache, 7200 RPM


also it reads:

Ideal For
High-performance family and business computing. These drives easily handle photo editing and data-intensive multimedia applications. For even higher performance, consider WD Caviar SE16 SATA hard drives

so maybe its not fast enough it saying it can handle photo editing bit it doesn't say it can handle video editing

[gadgetguy]

Assuming it's working properly, the drive itself is fast enough. Make sure it's running in DMA mode. If it is in DMA mode then does it drop frames continously or in spurts?

[jezzer]

its in spurts sometimes it will go on upto 4minutes without drop frames some times it only goes on for 2minutes then i get the drop frames

if i use windows movie maker is there a way i can tell if the are any drop frames

[rkr1958]

You could try setting process priority for win dv to "Realtime" and see if that helps.

To do this (if interested),

open up windows task manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del), Task Manger, Processes Tab, click on win dv process, right click, Set Priority > RealTime (or if you wish "High", "AboveNormal", etc.)

[jezzer]

well i tried it and its still the same i have no idea how to find out what needs replacing

it could be my hard drive because when i try it in windows movie maker and when its done the hard drive needs a defrag beacuse it seems to be real slow

also the sound of the file comes out all jerky

[thecoalman]

How are you determining that it's dropping frames? If you are just going by the preview or playback after transferring try converting a short clip to a low bitrate mpeg and see if the problem still exists.

BTW, DV capture is pretty easy for just about any recent computer, whatever the issue is you should be a ble to tranfer without dropped frames.

[gadgetguy]

You shouldn't need to change the priority (although that might work), but if it's happening in spurts then something is interrupting the process. Open the Processes Tab of the Task Manager and click on CPU to have the list sorted by CPU usage. See what pops up to the top when WinDV starts dropping frames. Note that on my PC, WinDV seldom jumps above ~15% usage while capturing and not all things that could be interrupting the process will show up in the Processes list, but it's a good place to start.

[Nelson37]

Source?

Connection type?

Firewire connection information?

Some description of CPU speed other than fast????

Capturing to OS drive? This leads DIRECTLY to

Have you read the sticky on "Why does my system drop frames" wherein the number one, repeated suggestion is to NOT capture to the OS drive?

[jezzer]

i have read not to capture to the os drive but my pc is fast enough and should cope with a 15minute clip

if i download a avi file from the net and i put it into windows movie maker and save it as dv-avi i get splutters when playing back

so i know its not my cam or the firewire thats at fault

ive looked at what cp usage im using and its nothing really

so really it must be the hard drive but what if its not ive bought a hard drive thats useless

[gadgetguy]

It doesn't matter how fast your PC is if something (like the OS) is interrupting the transfer process and causing dropped frames. Windows Movie Maker is probably the worst guage of video capsfer performance there is and is no help whatsoever in determining the cause of problems. Nothing that you've said so far excludes the cam or the firewire as a potential cause, however I think they're both unlikely. But I have seen a bad tape cause odd behavior during capsfer. In order to help troubleshoot a problem with your computer we need to know more about it, that's why Nelson37 asked the questions he did. Help him help you by answering his questions.

Are you saying this is a brand new hard drive? Is this a replacement for one that went bad? or is this a new computer? Is this something that worked before and now that you've replaced the drive it doesn't?

[jezzer]

ok i see what you are asking

new pc just over a year old home built

camcorder new 1week ago

transfering through firewire

new firewire lead

ive also done a format with just the drivers i need to run

if there is any thing else do tell?

but this is strange when its on my pc and the sound is all jerky i can still convert it to another format like dvd and it comes out fine,also if im using windows movie maker i can save it as best quality for my pc and it comes out fine

so could there be a audio codec or something like that thats messing around with it

[gadgetguy]

What kind and speed of processor?
What brand/model Camcorder?
Is your hard drive IDE or SATA?
Is your firewire port built into the motherboard or an add on card?
Do you have any other firewire devices?
Have you ever successfully capsferred from any camcorder to this PC via firewire?
Have you ever successfuly capsferred to any PC using the new firewire lead?
Have you ever successfully capsferred to another PC using your new camcorder?
Do you have another hard drive that you can put in and do a test capture to?

In order to narrow down a problem you need to isolate parts with items that are known to be good. New does not equal good. Tested good equals good.

[Nelson37]

You are in England, so I will assume you understand English.

Did You Read the Freaking Sticky??? If not, stop wasting your time and mine along with everyone elses and READ IT.

CPU speed is measured with a number. WHAT IS IT???

The fact that Windows Movie maker ALSO screw up does NOT repeat NOT mean that you do not have MORE THAN ONE problem.

If you are absolutely certain that "your PC is fast enough" then you should be able to resolve your issue all by yourself. Since you are evidently not able to do so, please provide some useful information to assist those of us who know what the hell we are doing to help you, which in case you are unaware of this we do for free.

Answer the questions or go whine someplace else.

[jezzer]

my specs:

X-Blade Ultimate Black Case With 580 Watt Psu -Pci +lcd controller
Samsung 16x48 DVD Rom Internal IDE
NEC ND3540A 16x16x DVD R/RW Dual Layer
Western Digital Caviar SE 250GB UIDE
Sony OEM 3.5 Floppy Drive
XFX GeForce 6800 GT PCI-E 256MB DDR3 TV + DUAL DVI
AMD Athlon 64 3700 CPU Skt 939 San Diego Retail inc Heat Sink Fan
Asus A8N-SLI Premium nFORCE4 SLi 939 PCI-E DDR400, SATA, Raid motherboard
GeIL 1GB (2x512MB) Value Dual Channel K

firewire port is built into motherboard

this is the first time ive used anything that has firewire,but i dont think its a firewire problem as it happens when i download clips of the net

i have no other hard drive to test

[Nelson37]

Only consistent issue I see is DV-AVI playback. Same file converted to DVD-MPG plays fine. Therefore the capture was OK, no dropped frames, simply a playback issue. Which DV codec are you using?

Downloaded internet clips are so widely variable in quality and methods as to be completely useless as a testing methodology. You have mentioned playback problems with such clips on two occassions. First was AFTER conversion to DV-AVI. Seeing a pattern here? Second clip no conversion was mentioned. Codec for both clips? Conversion used on SECOND CLIP, most especially?

What software is being used on playback? Have you tested more than one? What resolution are the clips in question?

I forget if it is the Philips or Panasonic DV codec that is known to cause such issues. But there is definitely one that does not work well for many people.

Try several clips THAT YOU CREATE, not Internet crap. Convert to MPG. Test playback. If OK, then the issue is simply that you cannot smoothly playback a DV-AVI clip, which considering the bitrates involved and the fact that DV-AVI is not really intended for playback, particularly from the OS drive where the full data throughput is often not available due to OS usage which is largely outside your control, this may not be a real problem of any kind.

Still have not answered if you have read the sticky. There is a reason it is there.

[edDV]

A good test is to transfer the DV-AVI file back to camcorder with WinDV and play to a TV from there. See if it plays smoothly. That separates file issues from computer issues.

[jezzer]

done that and it plays fine audio fine and picture fine

[edDV]

done that and it plays fine audio fine and picture fine

Then the problem is with the playback side of the computer. Something is bogging down.

If VLC (software mode) won't play it on a "fast" CPU, something is broken.

[jezzer]

i transfered it back to pc and its back to playing all crappy this time with no audio

so its not the hard drive?

[gadgetguy]

Just to clarify...
When you capsfer with WinDV does it report dropped frames?

[edDV]

i transfered it back to pc and its back to playing all crappy this time with no audio

so its not the hard drive?

I haven't been following this in detail but the quickest solution is to use a second internal drive. This isolates the capture/playback (HDD part) from the seriously drunken OS/C: drive problems.

[jezzer]

strange just did a transfer to pc with no drop frames it went on for 15minutes but the play back was choppy with no audio

looks like if i want to have to transfer im going to have to get a second hard drive,but wont i still get the play back problems beacause its still playing back on my pc

[gadgetguy]

What software are you using for playback? Have you tried VLC as EdDV suggested?

[jezzer]

yea im using vlc its a good player but its still choppy if any media player was going to work i would of thought it would be vlc

[gadgetguy]

... if any media player was going to work i would of thought it would be vlc

Me too.
Playing back from a separate HDD could resolve this. The OS needs to access the C: drive regularly for background operations and this can interfere with playback and make it appear choppy.
You may also want to do a good Virus and Spyware scan, and a registry cleanup. There may be something else interfering here.

[edDV]

I think you have a corrupted Windows installation. I have 2.4 GHz P4's that play DV format with VLC in software default mode. It should work. With hardware acceleration turned on and a supportive display card, it should play better in deinterlace modes.

Maybe that is the problem, is your VLC player in the default (Video - Deinterlace - Discard) mode? That eases the CPU load by dropping every other field (aka - poor man's deinterlace).

[jezzer]

i tried different settings in vlc but still the same, i know ive not got a corrupted Windows installation,as ive done 3formats trying to see if there was anything to do with the installation, i dont know why but there is no audio in my films nown in vlc and windows media player

edit: scrap no audio that was my fault,there is audio but its choppy just like the playback

edit again: i downloaded vlc again the sound is fine it plays for 2minutes then the video starts to play up (slight pauses) but the sound stay ok,but in any other media player it plays choppy

in vlc when it starts to freeze the cpu goes upto 100%

[Nelson37]

Let's try and Isolate your problem.

Assuming you did the transfer back to the camera properly (blank tape? or is there a possibility you had the original tape in the camera, did not overwrite it, and thus the playback test simply verified the original recording, NOT the PC transfer and copy), The transfer back to the camera with subsequent correct playback shows a correct original transfer, with NO dropped frames.

The conversion to MPG also indicates this (did you play the entire clip and carefully observe for any playback issues?).

So the ONLY problem is a playback issue with DV-AVI. Do you actually intend to store the DV-AVI clips on the PC and watch them in this format? Size requirements would seem to be an issue. If you intend to convert to MPG, whether for DVD or PC storage, then there is no real problem in need of solving.

Is your only indicator of "dropped frames" the laggy playback? You have been asked this question and failed to answer. The pauses in playback could indeed indicate dropped frames, but not necessarily. The other tests mentioned above would indicate the problem is something else entirely.

Have you read the sticky I have asked you about on 3 seperate occassions? You have also failed to answer this question. There are several items there which could pinpoint your issue, namely using a second drive and eliminating other running softwares, among others.

Have you tried other playback software other than VLC and WMP? You seem to have indicated a change in playback after re-downloading and re-installing VLC. This could point to a problem with VLC specifically. Trying 2 or 3 other playback softwares would be indicated. Have you installed any Codec packs? What software have you installed? What DV codec are you using?

Without detailed analysis and information on SPECIFIC performance changes after INDIVIDUAL, SPECIFIC actions, it is nearly impossible to correctly diagnose and solve a PC problem. My current thinking is that while the DV-AVI should play correctly, solving this issue is not really necessary to convert them to DVD.

[jezzer]

yes i have read the sticky and ive been scanning the net for a solution but no joy yet,i need to have it as dv-avi as i want to do some editing without loosing any quality, i have tried lots of players and codecs,like the pansonic one,klite ive also tried other media players

i thought it could be my xp sp2 playing up soi went back to sp1 but still had the same problem

sorry i have not put everything down i will do but at the moment im at work

it was a new tape when i transfered from pc to tape,i did watch the whole tape and not one glitch

i have done lots of formats with only needed programs/drivers needed

i was getting drop frames in win dv,but then it stopped but i was still getting choppy playback

if i transfer a couple of minutes of video to my pc dv-avi the result is not choppy and audio fine,but if i transfer the whole 15minutes then i get the problem, if i try it again but only do it for 2minutes i get the choppy playback

[FulciLives]

Let's try and Isolate your problem.

Assuming you did the transfer back to the camera properly (blank tape? or is there a possibility you had the original tape in the camera, did not overwrite it, and thus the playback test simply verified the original recording, NOT the PC transfer and copy), The transfer back to the camera with subsequent correct playback shows a correct original transfer, with NO dropped frames.

The conversion to MPG also indicates this (did you play the entire clip and carefully observe for any playback issues?).

So the ONLY problem is a playback issue with DV-AVI ...

... My current thinking is that while the DV-AVI should play correctly, solving this issue is not really necessary to convert them to DVD.

BINGO !!!

Nelson37 could not have said it better.

The only thing I can think of that might be a bit annoying is trying to edit ... you should have no problem finding the edit points etc. but if the pacing of the editing is important then the stuttering playback would make it hard to "nail it down" but my guess is it will play back well enough in short bursts that hopefully even the pacing of the editing will be A-OK.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman