Missing Hard Drive

[fLYtRap]

I'd say that data got corrupted, I had this problem before. I used pc recovery software, I recovered as much data as was possible and than I installed a frewsh copy of windows. Install a software like this on the working drive and from here you will be able to access damaged drive. Most of the data will not have original names on it, so you will have to recover as much as you can and than check on everything.

[InXess]

Disconnect any external devices (if present), remove primary and secondary disk controllers (Dev. Mgr.) - corrupted will cause drive issues. If you already created a new partition then fdisk/mbr is redundant. If your setup was master/slave switch it to cable select for change on both drives. Adding other devices like CD ROM (improperly configured) could dump your HD. Disconnect second IDE cable, USB or other peripherals. Test with 1 IDE cable connected. Use the manuf. HDD setup disk to test the drive for integrity in DOS (download from Maxtor website - it's called PowerMax. Scan both drives for errors. Don't think it's the virus. Consider reinstalling Win98 over the existing one (it will inherit all existing software and settings). Windows setup has the strongest Plug and Play detection abilities plus it checks disks integrity. Too many scattered suggestions won't make up a good troubleshooting strategy. The problem is very simple but you have to be systematic. Start with PowerMax test. then remove devices from Dev. Manager (you may remove all to force Plug and Play to re-enumerate resources. Makes sure the drives have no colliding settings (2 masters or master and CSEL).

[Bjs]

Before anything ... after trying all else ... set both hd's to CS ... reboot and see what happens .

1: Drive becomes available = poor quality control interface on drive .

Some wd's and maxtor's did this soon after installation ... good old wd200bb I had did this after 3 month's ... drive only detected if set to cs ... master failed .

2: Same problem , part a = system file issue ... normally a problem within the registry ... a common issue I see quite often caused by programs corrupting the registry ... repair via clean reinstall .

Part b : Missing mbr , or not fat32 format ... win98 is fat32 ... if second is other , it wont see anything , and problem can appear ... though fat and fat16 should appear .

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Formatting the old drive :

The simplest method would be to visit the manufacturer of the drive ... and download their "new install" tool .

Create two set's of the floppies , incase one fails to work .

Reboot pc , enter bios , and set to boot from floppy only , insert floppy , answer y , pc reboots .

If you set the bios correctly , the pc will now boot off the floppy and you will be greeted by a nice gui of the new hd install utitlity .

Read it , it's simple , you will be asked what os format , choose win98 , and wait till completed ... you may be asked to insert the win98 cd .

Shutdown pc after completion ... start pc ... enter bios and set your normal boot sequence ... normally cdrom , hd0 , no floppy (kids leave them) ... say y , pc reboots .

It should turn up this time .

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Problem : All went well , but still problem

Search for delpart.exe and place it on a floppy .

Set bios to boot from cdrom only , insert win98 cd , and restart pc .

Answer : Boot from cdrom
Answer : Boot pc to dos prompt

Insert floppy with delpart on it .

Type

A:

Hit enter .

Type

Delpart.exe

Hit enter

This tool is capable of showing you all partition tables and other info located on drive .

It's also good at removing linux and windows ntfs partitions ... something that fdisk cannot handle .

It's pretty basic tool , if non fat32 partition's exist , delete them ... shut down pc after ... then follow the advice using the manufacturer's "new hd install" tool .

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Persistent bugger :

Search for insert ... it's a security linux mini distro packed with tools for the pc .

Burn iso with dvd decrypter , nero , these work well ... other's might .

Set bios to boot from cdrom only , insert "insert" cd , answer y , pc reboot's .

You will be greeted with a basic menu system ... take a close look at hd tools section .

In here , there is a tool that will flog the hell out of the drive , test's speed , seek times , performance , and more ... though you should know some of the specs of the drive before performing these tests otherwise you may not know how it stacks up .

If problem persist's , the section containing mbr may be defective ...

Should also contain a good mbr tool ... though I have not had the time to fully test out all the tool's available ... just have not had the time .

It also contain's most , if not all , hard drive manufacturer's hd cloning tools , and new hd install tool's .

I have seen hd's with poor mbr holding too come alive under windows nt ntfs ... under xp , which see's both , would be a last effort just to see if it is possible .

Just some of the possibilties .

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DO NOT DO THIS : Consider reinstalling Win98 over the existing one

People should not install over previous os's ... not only dose it inherit previous problem's ... it create's more problem's later that the user cannot foresee or imagine possible .

[normcar]

Download a copy of Active@ Partition Recovery Demo, and see if it sees the partition on the HD. If it does, you can buy the software and recover it.

There are other data recovery programs (I believe Active Undelete) have demo versions to find data to recover, then you purchase a license to do the recovery.

I just reinstalled Win 2000, and now all my non-boot drives (about 7) show as unformatted. I am going to use Active Partition Recovery to recover the partition on the drives. I have used Active Undelete before to recover files, and it seems to a pretty good job.

[CSULB71]

The simplest method would be to visit the manufacturer of the drive ... and download their "new install" tool...

FINALLY! That was the solution -- WD's Data Lifeguard Tools utility did the trick. For whatever reason(s), WIN's FDISK wasn't doing it's job right ... the partition steps seemed to work correctly, but at the end no drive letter got assigned, so I couldn't Format the HDD. And since this HDD is also a WD200BB, I put the jumper on 'cable select' just to be sure and ran WD's Tools utility on it as the primary drive (don't know if it helped, but it didn't hurt). After it was formatted, I put the jumper back on 'slave', reconnected it as a slave, rebooted, and Windows saw it as Drive 'D'.
Thanks to everybody for all the suggestions.

[Nelson37]

The drive size is the issue, should have asked this earlier, noting the age of the machine.

PC's of that era usually max out at 128 Gb to recognize the drive. So a non-standard partitioning software must be used, it basically adds to the bios-based drive parameters to allow usage.

Do NOT lose that disk! Never, EVER, use any kind of partition management software on that drive other than the WD supplied prog. It will blow all data on the drive.

If and when you move the drive to a new PC, or upgrade your motherboard, or wish to make it bootable, you will begin to understand my absolute hatred of such softwares. Re-partition and re-format are necessary for reliability, and often basic functionality. PITA. I usually just set the BIOS for a 128 Gb drive and format normally, without the oddball software.

[InXess]

This is yet another example of how misleading or incomplete the initial problem description may be... If the drive has worked previously and disappeared suddenly (!?) as indicated then the size wasn't the issue unless overlay was used initially and got subsequently corrupted. Another possibility would be (as is often the case) a user error... Anyway, problem solved and the irony is that most important piece of info which is HDD model no. appears as last one supplied.

[ahhaa]

CS- sorry to say, the problem is not necessarily solved.

I had similar difficulties formatting a WD 250 G, it came with a Promise Ultra TX2 board which was supposed to adapt it to motherboards without LBA.
Eventually, I got it working half-assed; that is, no problems unless:
a. the machine is fully powered down (plug pulled).
b. any software is uninstalled (registry change).
Either will completely lose the drive. In my case XP is just smart enough to go 'looking' for it with resultant horrendous clacking. (Its back on 2nd startup- don't ask me why).


This bughunt took mebbe 25 extensive responses from a dozen or so members- all good responses & I for one am impressed with the people here!

CS- a recommendation or two: first, you might consider getting an external USB enclosure for that drive, looking towards the day that the computer is upgraded; second, as you seem willing to 'get under the hood' with an OS, you might consider upgrading to a Linux distro. You can get Live CD versions that run in RAM & don't install anything til you tell them to. But mainly, you seem to have an aversion to upgrading windows- the difference with linux would be having a fully current OS to deal with wireless & big HDs, & DVD burning, & torrents & all the other stuff that's happening today.

Others may disagree, but you seem to have the 'sticktoit' that gets people past the installation 'rite of passage' that knocks out so many!

[Nelson37]

Some good points there, the main thing being that such non-standard partitioning software is much more susceptible to certain operations that will completely blow it out of the water.

IF it was recognized as the full 200 GB before it failed, then it is almost certain that the non-standard software was used to set it up.

It also becomes much more likely that some user operation caused it to become unrecognizable, note I did NOT say "fail". I would bet money that the daughter in question did something unusual that caused this, and is not admitting to it. This is not at all unusual, a high percentage of my adult customers do the same thing, even in cases when I know and can prove they caused the problem. Since finding it without their assistance takes more time, I give them a larger bill. Depending on what it was and who else is present, I usually tell them what it is that I know they did and how much extra time it cost them not to be upfront and honest about it.

As for Linux, as an interesting toy for the hobbyist, it has some virtues. As a real tool for small business, and thus worth my time to learn, no, it has no value whatsoever. I have yet to see a Linux box in commercial use. Unix and Xenix, only a few and then only in totally proprietary systems where the business software is totally integrated and I only touch them with a company tech on the phone. I have seen more Pick systems in company use, though I am not sure if this is a flavor of Unix or something completely different.

[TBoneit]

You made me curious about Pick so I googled and found this.

BTW I tend to avoid telling customers that I know what they did, Maybe I'm just afraid of losing the repeat business. I will tell them I found lots of spyware and I always mention if I find keyloggers so they can change log ins to banking and such. I recently found a commercial key logger on one computer, I suspect problems ahead in that house since as far as I could tell you needed to be at the computer to use teh s/w.

The Pick operating system (often called just "the Pick system" or simply "Pick") is a demand-paged, multiuser, virtual memory, time-sharing operating system based around a unique "multivalued" database. It is used primarily for business data processing. Although it started on a variety of minicomputers, the system and various implementations eventually spread to a large variety of microcomputers and mainframe computers, and is still in use today

Reading that reminded me that I had heard of Pick at one time.

[INFRATOM]

fdisk /mbr is when you want to repair your partition table to bring back your HD content, now that you have formated and created one full partition you don't need to run that. When you do fdisk and reformat it is like a new blank HD with nothing on it.

[Nelson37]

How much you tell the customer is often a judgement call and a crapshoot. Depends on the risk factor of the behavior, whether they could have reasonably known it was a bad idea, and who exactly I am dealing with.

I never like to get someone fired, but if some guy has been to several porn and gambling sites and caused a severe infection, this is a problem the customer depends on me to solve. The solution is not just removing the infection, it is stopping the infection from re-occurring.

Most places have company handbooks that forbid such conduct, often it is cause for immediate termination. There is not just the lost productivity and my bill to consider, there is also potential for sexual-harassment lawsuits.

Often I will give a severe talking-to to the offending employee, on occassion I have had the individual employee pay the bill. But I am hired by management and they have a right to know what their money is paying for, and why it is necessary. Often there is not an absolute, 100% certainty and I make that clear, I know what SOMEBODY did but I cannot prove who did it. Then I go into the correct way to proceed, and/or things to avoid.

Most of my customers have been with me 5 to 10 years or more, or are referrals from such people. SFAIK I have never lost a customer through honest explanation. However, do NOT ream the guy for surfing porn while his wife is standing nearby.

[ahhaa]

Hey Nelson!:]
Since you brought it up, I'm curious... how do you look for a keystroke logger? is it covered by the usual Spybot, etc programs, or is there more to it?

Agree with you about plain talk with the user... had a friend who got into the computer dating thing. He was on several sites and was collecting exotic women like baseball cards. He comes over & before I know what he's up to, he's showing me his latest 'hot number'. Read him the riot act about that- he grumbled well it never happens on his computer, except that he gets about a billion spam per day. Sure enough, within a week I'm getting 'personal' offers from overseas. aarghh!
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OT Was just looking at the AOpen website, when I tried to go to the Dr.Open page, got this message:
The trust relationship between this workstation and the primary domain failed.

[TBoneit]

Many of the anti-spyware programs will find keylogers. I know SpySweeper does. They walk a fine line detecting keyloggers since in some cases they were installed by employers. More often they were installed by a trojan. And some are installed by spouses or their detectives as part of collecting evidence before they ever drop the hammer in a divorce proceeding.

[CSULB71]

I just got back from a mini-vacation, and was surprised to see the thread still going!
Just to clear up a couple of points: although I didn't include the size of the drive in my original post (didn't think it was relavent), I did later mention it was 20 GB. Unfortunately, a bit of confusion arose after I said it was a model WD200BB, causing some people to think it was a 200 GB drive, leading to discussions that were "off track". Also, since it's my daughter's PC, upgrading to Win XP (or changing to Linux) as a solution is not an option, money-wise. We still have no idea what caused the problem, but I suspect adding the DSL modem/wireless stuff was the culprit. Luckily there was no data on the HDD to worry about recovering.
So thanks again to everybody for all the suggestions -- I'm glad one of them turned out to be the right, and relatively easy, solution.