keep menu/chapters after remuxing?

[spiritgumm]

I want to be able to add additional audio streams and subtitles to a dvd movie. I usually demux the dvd, then remux with extra audio and/or subtitles, like with Muxman. But I no longer have a menu or chapter points.
HOW can I keep the menu/chapter points? I see an "import chapters" option in Muxman (but don't know how to use that).
Also in some cases I'd like to keep the original dvd menu.
In other instances I'd like to make a menu in TDA but TDA won't allow multiple audio or subtitles, which is why I'd have to add audio/subs AFTER making the TDA menu.
So can Muxman be used? Or VOBblanker? Or...?

[manono]

Hi-

HOW can I keep the menu/chapter points?

The chapter points are contained within the Celltimes.txt you get when demuxing using PGCDemux or via other methods. In Muxman, go File->Import Chapter to load it when authoring.

To keep the menu, after authoring in Muxman, open the original DVD in VobBlanker, click on the movie to bring it into the lower window. Click on it again to highlight it, and to the right, hit the "Replace" button. Browse to your new DVD with the new subs. Give it a Destination. "Process". The result will be the original DVD with the menu and extras, and the new movie with the new subs.

If you have a TDA authored DVD with a menu, but without the new audio or subs, follow the same procedure as outlined above using VobBlanker, replacing the video in the TDA authored DVD with your DVD with the new audio or subs. However, you may have to "turn on" the subs or audio in PGCEdit , as maybe they won't show up. Maybe not though, so test out the DVD first before doing what I say next. Open the final DVD in PGCEdit, double-click on the movie in the left window, turn on the first sub (or audio) by opening it and "Set". OK your way out to the main window. Find the green reel of film icon along the top row of icons and click on it. It's going to give you a message about the number of sub streams (or audio streams) changing. "Yes", Save, and Test.

[spiritgumm]

Thanks! I'll give it a shot.
I noticed I had to fix the subtitle color after using Muxman, but someone suggested in another post that if I switched the video with VOBBlanker (assuming the dvd movie has the subtitles to begin with - not a TDA-menu dvd) the original would "fix" the subtitle color. True?
Also does Vobblanker do any remuxing?

[manono]

Yes, if there were subs in the original DVD, then "Replacing" with VobBlanker will give you those same original sub colors. If not, or if you didn't like those original sub colors, you can fix them using PGCEdit. Just like my instructions before, open the DVD in PGCEdit, double-click on the video, and in the new screen, in addition to seeing the place where you "turn on" the subs and/or audio, you'll also see the CLUT (Color LookUp Table) a 4x4 box of colors. Your subs are usually in the top row (but not always). If you know what the outline and main colors are, click on them and change them to whatever you like. OK, Save, and Test.

You can also "fix" sub colors using DVDSubEdit.

VobBlanker is not really a muxer. You can't add audio or sub streams to an already existing DVD. It's a heck-of-a-program to learn your way around, though. As is PGCEdit.

[yoda313]

fyi I don't believe tmpgenc dvd author supports subtitles... I think you can if they are hardcoded into the video itself of course but it doesn't seem to have a switchable subtitle option....

[spiritgumm]

Well, I didn't get very far. I don't have the original menu for one movie, so I gave it a menu/chapters in TDA. Took that movie, demuxed it, then remuxed with a 2nd audio track and subtitles. I was going to insert this 2-track/subbed version into the TDA menu'd version. However, at the end of remuxing I get an error about an empty segment, the ifo's are zero. I've remuxed successfully with Muxman before; it seems that running the movie thru TDA has changed it so I can't demux/remux correctly.

[manono]

Hi-

I get an error about an empty segment

Open the Celltimes.txt and delete the last cell. Then try Muxman again.

[spiritgumm]

Muxman finished processing but it still didn't produce a useable bunch of ifo/bup/vob's.
Just a little background on why and how I'm doing this: when I need to tweak the audio on a dvd, I first backup just the movie (no menus, if any) with 'Shrink onto the harddrive, then use VOBedit to demux the audio/video; I've never done the chapter files before(didn't matter since I was going to use TDA to make a menu). Then tweaked the audio, remuxed audio/video, made menu in TDA.
In this situation, I'm taking the TDA-menud movie on the harddrive, demuxing it, then remuxing it with an extra audio track, subtitles, and chapters. Seems like one of these variables is screwing things up.
Tried a different approach - demuxed the original movie (not the TDA version), remuxed with extra audio and subtitles. Remuxing worked, so I "replaced" it with Vobblanker into the TDA menued movie. The final version didn't have extra audio/subs. I know you said to use PGCEdit to open the audio/subs but I didn't know at what point. I also have no idea how to use PGCedit.

[manono]

If you're replacing an audio or sub track, then the number of streams doesn't change, and the new ones will show up. If you're adding a new audio or sub track to what's already there, then it has to be "turned on". However, the DVD you made in Muxman (before replacing with VobBlanker) should work fine and show all the old and new audio and sub streams. If it doesn't, then there's something wrong with the audio or SUP subtitle you made. It's after doing the "Replace" in VobBlanker that you don't get the new streams. That's when you open the complete, final, missing audio or subs DVD in PGCEdit and do what I suggested before.

Open the final DVD in PGCEdit, double-click on the movie in the left window, turn on the first sub (or audio) by opening it and "Set". OK your way out to the main window. Find the green reel of film icon along the top row of icons and click on it. It's going to give you a message about the number of sub streams (or audio streams) changing. "Yes", Save, and Test.

Is that really so hard to follow?

[spiritgumm]

"Is that really so hard to follow?" Well, alittle bit. The software isn't idiot proof
I got the final dvd's extra streams opened/set. I didn't see a "test" option, so I just opened the dvd in Shrink, saw the extra streams; pretty nifty.
I burned an RW to check it all out, and noticed the chapter points were off at least 5 seconds. Can you recommend a program that lets you set/edit the chapters while scrolling thru the movie? It seems like programs expect you to know the digital numbers of chapter points, whereas I'd rather see where I'm chaptering. As it is, I'm pretty happy with the results. I also feel confident I'll be able to insert a dvd back into a real menu, because of your directions.
Still wondering why the demuxed streams from TDA-made dvd wouldn't remux right.
Thanks for all your help, Manono.

[grannyGeek]

One way to fix chapter points is ChapterEdit, a little freeware app that works with vob files (won't work with multi-title dvds)
I found this at Digital Digest, a link for ChapterEdit at bottom of the first post of this thread / guide, and instructions to use it further down.
http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=60724

You can delete existing chapters, add your own, etc.
Chapter points on I-frames only, I think, so it NOT frame-exact.
There is a little preview window that displays while you scroll thru, and also you can choose a regular software player like WMP to play pieces of the video in a regular-size playback window.


Hope this helps

[spiritgumm]

Thanks, Granny. Downside is Chapter Edit deletes the menu (aahh!!). Looks like I'd have to put the new-chaptered dvd back into the menu'ed version with VOBblanker, again. Wish I knew why the chapters got skewed in the first place, as it seems there's alot of extra steps in this process.

[grannyGeek]

Urk!
I'm so sorry, I mostly don't use menus myself, just my remote control to skip around, so I didn't notice this behavior when I used the app.

Thanks for pointing out that "little" drawback.

granny

[spiritgumm]

Actually it's not a big deal in my situation: I'm remuxing streams (with no menu), then inserting that dvd into a menu with VOBblanker. I should have double-checked the chapterpoints After Remuxing and Before Inserting.
Question: I clear all the old chapters (this deleted the arrows but not asterisks next to the chapter points). I added new points and saved. Ran it thru Shrink, and it seems to have both old and chapters.
Opened the dvd folder in ChapterEdit, clicked on Chapter in Toolbar, clicked on the two List options, tried to "Execute" the functions but got an error VHPLIST.txt not found, so I didn't think anything got processed.
Ran the dvd folder thru Shrink again and now the chapters look okay. However, inserted it into the menu'ed version with Vobblanker, and the chapters are incorrect - still the correct number of them, but it includes both new and old chapters, leaving out half.
Do I need to run it thru PGCedit before or after inserting with VOBBlanker? Or change something in VOBblanker Settings before processing?

[spiritgumm]

Having subtitle color and chapter issues with VOBblanker (or Dvdsubedit & Chapter Edit 1.10).
My inital remux chapter points were off (as described above somewhere). I corrected them with Chapter Edit, and they looked okay in Shrink, but when I put the dvd into the menu-made dvd via VOBblanker, that software sees both old and new chapter points. I couldn't figure out how to edit the chapters in VOBblanker.
After remuxing I also corrected the subtitles color (into white) with Dvdsubedit. After using VOBblanker, the dvd had subs looking alittle grey. I opened that dvd with Dvdsubedit but the cluts were all grey. Could only get white subs by clicking "ignore cluts" but after saving it, the subs were still greyish.

[manono]

My inital remux chapter points were off

I don't know anything about Chapter Edit or if you've used it rightly or wrongly, but it seems to me that the place to correct the chapter placement is back during the intiial authoring stage by editing the Celltimes.txt file. If the celltimes as extracted from the original DVD are correct, they can't be very far off in the remuxed DVD, as they have to be set on I-Frames, which occur every half a second or so. That is, if you say they're off by up to 5 seconds, then it seems to me they were off by almost that amount in the original DVD. But like I said, the frame numbers in the Celltimes.txt can be adjusted.

After remuxing I also corrected the subtitles color (into white) with Dvdsubedit.

That was a waste of time, as after being "Replaced" in VobBlanker they'll take the colors of the original DVD.

After using VOBblanker, the dvd had subs looking alittle grey.

If you're having trouble with DVDSubEdit, perhaps you'll have better luck using PGCEdit for the job. Open the final DVD and double-click the video. In the new screen that opens, you'll see the CLUT (Color LookUp Table), the 4x4 block of colors. Even if all grey, you can figure it out. What you want to adjust is almost certainly on the top row. Click on a couple of top row colors and set an outline color (black) and main color (white, you said), OK, Save, and Test. By Test I mean use a software DVD player, like PowerDVD. After a few Trials and Errors, you should get it.

[spiritgumm]

Damn, your good! PGCedit fixed the sub color. I don't expect anyone to remember all the reasoning for some of my steps, so I'll explain why I did the sub-color after remuxing: I'm inserting the dvd into a TDA-menu-made dvd. TDA doesn't allow subtitles, so I'm assuming when I make the substitution, that video wouldn't have any sub-color info on it. And if the info was kept despite TDA, the original text fill (I'd say "color" but white isn't a color) was white, so it shouldn't have changed to grey.
For the chapter points, I was using celltimes from the TDA menued dvd. However, when I remuxed the TDA streams with the extra audio/subititles, the file wasn't useable, so I ended up remuxing with the pre-TDA audio/video, the extra audio/subtitles, and TDA celltimes. I imagine that's where the discrepancy happened (between pre-TDA video and TDA celltimes).
Chapter Edit is pretty easy, somewhat idiot-proof, and Shrink confirmed the points. However, just like I had to use PGCedit to open up the extra audio/subtitles after using Vobblanker, I speculate I also have to tweak the chapter points...either in VOBblanker, or PGcedit.
Here's a link to Chapter edit 1.10:
http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=57209&highlight=chapter+edit+1.10

[bmwracer]

Tried this process and it hasn't worked for me so far.

I have two DVD sets: one with the subtitles and the other with the TDA-authored menus... After using Vobblanker and getting the resultant final DVD set, I can't see the subtitles.

When I use DVDSubEdit, the subtitles are there, and I adjust the colors and save the changes (and the force the subpics on), but I still can't see 'em when playing the DVD.

I fumbled through PGCEdit: there are so many settings and buttons, I'm not really sure which ones to select... Regardless, still no viewable subs.

Help...!


Also: How do I handle multiple VOBs in Vobblanker? There are two discrete VOBs groups within this one DVD... How do I handle the subtitle REPLACE for two separate VOBs?

[manono]

Hi-

Tried this process and it hasn't worked for me so far.

Then you haven't done it right.

I have two DVD sets: one with the subtitles and the other with the TDA-authored menus... After using Vobblanker and getting the resultant final DVD set, I can't see the subtitles.

Just to make sure, the one with subs plays OK, right? You see the subs and everything, right? Don't worry about the subtitle colors at this point. They'll be fixed later on.

And when using VobBlanker, you open the TDA authored DVD first, right? And you "Replace" with the one that has working subs, but no menu, right?

OK, then for the third time:

Open the final DVD in PGCEdit, double-click on the movie in the left window, turn on the first sub (or audio) by opening it and "Set". OK your way out to the main window. Find the green reel of film icon along the top row of icons and click on it. It's going to give you a message about the number of sub streams (or audio streams) changing. "Yes", Save, and Test.

This assumes only 1 set of subs. After clicking on the green reel and clicking "Yes" you can also adjust the sub colors.

[bmwracer]

Hi-

Tried this process and it hasn't worked for me so far.

Then you haven't done it right.

Apaprently so. I'm close, but as the saying goes....

I have two DVD sets: one with the subtitles and the other with the TDA-authored menus... After using Vobblanker and getting the resultant final DVD set, I can't see the subtitles.

Just to make sure, the one with subs plays OK, right? You see the subs and everything, right? Don't worry about the subtitle colors at this point. They'll be fixed later on.

Yup, the DVD set with the subs plays back with the subs clearly visible.

Um, how do I deal with the two separate VOBs (01 and 02) that exist when using VOBblanker?

And when using VobBlanker, you open the TDA authored DVD first, right? And you "Replace" with the one that has working subs, but no menu, right?

Correct.

OK, then for the third time:

Open the final DVD in PGCEdit, double-click on the movie in the left window, turn on the first sub (or audio) by opening it and "Set". OK your way out to the main window. Find the green reel of film icon along the top row of icons and click on it. It's going to give you a message about the number of sub streams (or audio streams) changing. "Yes", Save, and Test.

This assumes only 1 set of subs. After clicking on the green reel and clicking "Yes" you can also adjust the sub colors.

I have two sets of subs, one for each VOB group (01 and 02)... Is that handled differently or do I just repeat the process for each VOB group?

[manono]

Hi-

I'm not sure what you mean by "vob group". I don't think you mean one video taking up more than 1 vob (or more than 1 GB in size). I think you mean 2 PGCs within the same VTS? Or maybe 2 different PGCs in 2 different VTS's?

If so, then you should have 2 replacement videos, each with one substream, and you'd do the PGCEdit thing twice, once for each PGC. However, it still doesn't strike me that I have it just right, so please explain further if necessary. If the video does consist of more than one Vob (1 and 2, as you say), it doesn't matter as you're replacing IFOs anyway. The IFOs will bring with them all the associated vobs. Maybe enclose a pic, like this one from a previous poster, so I can see what's going on:

http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24226_vobblankeroriginal_122_304lo.jpg

If, when using VobBlanker, you're maybe skipping some of the DVD, and only processing part of it, I might recommend processing the whole thing and saving to a different hard drive if possible. That way, when done, you'll have the whole thing complete and ready to go. It may take a couple of extra minutes, but it'll prevent any user error.

[bmwracer]

Hi-

I'm not sure what you mean by "vob group". I don't think you mean one video taking up more than 1 vob (or more than 1 GB in size). I think you mean 2 PGCs within the same VTS? Or maybe 2 different PGCs in 2 different VTS's?

Sorry for the confusion: two different VTSs: VTS_01_xx and VTS_02_xx.

If so, then you should have 2 replacement videos, each with one substream, and you'd do the PGCEdit thing twice, once for each PGC. However, it still doesn't strike me that I have it just right, so please explain further if necessary. If the video does consist of more than one Vob (1 and 2, as you say), it doesn't matter as you're replacing IFOs anyway. The IFOs will bring with them all the associated vobs. Maybe enclose a pic, like this one from a previous poster, so I can see what's going on:

http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24226_vobblankeroriginal_122_304lo.jpg

If, when using VobBlanker, you're maybe skipping some of the DVD, and only processing part of it, I might recommend processing the whole thing and saving to a different hard drive if possible. That way, when done, you'll have the whole thing complete and ready to go. It may take a couple of extra minutes, but it'll prevent any user error.

After some stumbling and bumbling, I finally got the menus and the subs.... Whew.

But now, my chapters are all screwed up: the first episode has only six (of eight) chapters and the second episode has only four (of eight)... Grrr.

[manono]

That's peculiar.

You got a celltimes.txt file for each of the 2 videos when demuxing using PGCDemux (is that how you demuxed)? And you opened them up and inside are 7 chapters listed? The first chapter, being at frame #0, isn't in there. And when muxing using Muxman, after loading the Celltimes.txt for each PGC, it lists the number of cells/chapters, down at the bottom, to the left of the "Start" button. Also, I don't have one handy, but the muxman.log, in the root of the C Drive, should say something about the number of cells/chapters created.

Also, the VobBlanker log warns if the number of cells/chapters is different than in the original, and it creates blank chapters to make up the difference. So, if the TDA created DVD has the right number (you've checked?), then the VobBlanker processed one will have the same number. But the VobBlanker one might not have them all at the right place (in black frames at the very end instead).

I'd suggest going back and checking the Muxman created DVDs to be sure they're short even at that stage. I'd also check the Celltimes.txt to make sure the chapters are listed in there.

[bmwracer]

That's peculiar.

You got a celltimes.txt file for each of the 2 videos when demuxing using PGCDemux (is that how you demuxed)? And you opened them up and inside are 7 chapters listed? The first chapter, being at frame #0, isn't in there. And when muxing using Muxman, after loading the Celltimes.txt for each PGC, it lists the number of cells/chapters, down at the bottom, to the left of the "Start" button. Also, I don't have one handy, but the muxman.log, in the root of the C Drive, should say something about the number of cells/chapters created.

Also, the VobBlanker log warns if the number of cells/chapters is different than in the original, and it creates blank chapters to make up the difference. So, if the TDA created DVD has the right number (you've checked?), then the VobBlanker processed one will have the same number. But the VobBlanker one might not have them all at the right place (in black frames at the very end instead).

I'd suggest going back and checking the Muxman created DVDs to be sure they're short even at that stage. I'd also check the Celltimes.txt to make sure the chapters are listed in there.

Hmm, I did see a couple of warning messages at the end of the VOBblanker compilation, but I pretty much ignored them, since they were warnings and not errors... Also, the original DVD had no chapters and thus an empty celltimes.txt file... That's why I re-authored the DVD with TDA, so I would have some chapter breaks. Should I have not done that?


Lemme start at the beginning: I've got a Japanese drama that is ten episodes long spread over five discs. The menus are in Japanese, so I wanted to re-author the DVDs with English menus and keep the English subtitles... After some thought and heavy searching through the forums, this thread's procedure seemed to be the best choice.

And I'm oh so close to getting it done.

[manono]

Hi-

Hmm, I did see a couple of warning messages at the end of the VOBblanker compilation, but I pretty much ignored them, since they were warnings and not errors...

You did right.

That's why I re-authored the DVD with TDA, so I would have some chapter breaks. Should I have not done that?

That's fine, but you need to get the Celltimes.txt files from your TDA authored DVD so you can use them in your Muxman authored DVD. If the Muxman ones have chapters, even if not enough, how did you create them?

Anyway, the Muxman authored ones have to have the chapters, the right number of chapters, and in the right places, for the "Replace" thing in VobBlanker to work correctly.

[bmwracer]

Anyway, the Muxman authored ones have to have the chapters, the right number of chapters, and in the right places, for the "Replace" thing in VobBlanker to work correctly.

Ahh, that seems to be the key: I created a celltimes.txt from my TDA-generated DVD set and used it in Muxman when generating my subtitled DVD set... Now I get zero warnings in VOBblanker because the cells/chapters match... Whew.

To say this is a convoluted process would be an understatement, but I'm really glad I figured it out.

I think I'll have to do some more reading about using PGCs and PGCEdit: it's a pretty complicated piece of software to use for a noob... Know of any primers on the subject of PGCs and the like that you would recommend?


Thanks for all of your help.

[manono]

Hi-

To say this is a convoluted process would be an understatement, but I'm really glad I figured it out.

You're just saying that because you're not used to the programs yet. If you do many encodes, particularly backups of retail DVDs where you encode the movie and/or extras, you'll quickly find VobBlanker and PGCEdit indispensible in your work.

Know of any primers on the subject of PGCs and the like that you would recommend?

The best learning method, of course, is just to use them. However, there's a good help file included with VobBlanker. Up at the top, Help->Contents, which discusses some of what you're wondering. The same with PGCEdit (Help->Documentation).

Here are some guides for their use:

http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/guides.htm
http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html

Thanks for all of your help.

You're welcome.

[spiritgumm]

Still have a question about replacing video in Vobblanker with a remuxed dvd (I want the new dvd with the old menu). Vobblanker seems to mix up the chapters from the dvd being replaced with the replacing dvd. When I'm replacing, do I need to adjust a Vobblanker setting? Or after replacing, can I edit the number of chapters AND chapter times? I've only seen one psuedo tutorial that describes "blanking"(?) chapter points, but not about changing the actual times or making new chapters.

[bmwracer]

Still have a question about replacing video in Vobblanker with a remuxed dvd (I want the new dvd with the old menu). Vobblanker seems to mix up the chapters from the dvd being replaced with the replacing dvd. When I'm replacing, do I need to adjust a Vobblanker setting? Or after replacing, can I edit the number of chapters AND chapter times? I've only seen one psuedo tutorial that describes "blanking"(?) chapter points, but not about changing the actual times or making new chapters.

From my minimal experience, I don't think you need to change any VOBblanker settings: I didn't when merging the two different sources.

In regards to the chapters, I think you have to set your chapters/celltimes before using VOBblanker... At least that's what I did.

[spiritgumm]

Have you used Vobblanker to replace one movie with another - in order to use the menu? Did the chapters get mixed up? Vobblanker has settings that can be changed when "Replacing," so I'm wondering if I need to change them.
Also PGCedit might be necessary. manono indicated using it after Vobblanking to activate subtitles or extra audio tracks.