Help on how to convert HDTV to DVD Resolution for the best quality

[Kid Chameleon]

I am looking for a way to convert HDTV to DVD resolution with little picture quality lose. I record TV show with windows media center. I record from a Motorola DCT-6200 with the firewire connection. I get a .dvr-ms file that I convert to .mpg with DVRMSToolbox. Most of the files are 1280x720 progressive scan 16:9 with AC3 5.1 Sound. I don't care about how long it takes to convert the file. If someone could help or even point me in the right direction that would be great.

[Wile_E]

Try HDTV2DVD

[waheed]

You do realise that when converted to DVD, you will be sacrificing resolution to 720 x 480 (NTSC) or 720 X 576 (PAL).

[Kid Chameleon]

I do realise that it will resize to 720x480. I will try hdtv2dvd, but is there better way to convert it will cce or another program.

[yoda313]

When I do this I use project x to demux the .tp file I get with my capture card. I get the m2v and ac3 file.

Then I load the m2v file into tmpgenc and convert it to dvd resolution into an mpg. Then I use tmpgenc to mux the m2v and ac3 together.

Use a bitrate calculator to determine your bitrate. You should be able to go to a fairly high bitrate if its only an hour program or half hour. Even a little more if you edit the commercials out.

[Kid Chameleon]

My files are in mpeg does project x work with mpeg or can i just use tmpgenc with ac3 audio and have it not change the audio?

[yoda313]

If they are already in mpg form then you can load them directly into tmpgenc without converting.

[TBoneit]

Call me lazy, but I've been recording from my HD IRD via S-Video into a Pioneer recorder and the results don't look bad. Has the added benefit of doing it in realtime.

[yoda313]

Call me lazy, but I've been recording from my HD IRD via S-Video into a Pioneer recorder and the results don't look bad. Has the added benefit of doing it in realtime.

Yes but you lose 5.1 surround sound that way. But realtime dubbing to a dvd recorder is an excellent alternative.

[TBoneit]

OTOH you could capture the video to the computer, strip the sound and mux it back into the DVD recorders video. I didn't try that and it could I suppose have sync problems as they are from two different captures.

I've found that the Pioneer when fed from the HD DVR does a really nice quality. At least on a par with OTA from a clean signal. Sad to say a clean signal doesn't happen a lot on Cablevision by me. That's why I only keep basic cable.

[frogster]

will tmpgenc downconvert and mainatin the ac3 file?

[frogster]

hdtv2dvd doesn't seem to work on my mpeg2 files. apparently, i need to capture in .tp or .ts format.

[BJ_M]

.tp or .ts formats are mpeg2 files

[manono]

Hi-

Open it in DGIndex, go File->Save Project (which will demux the audio at the same time), and use the resulting D2V in an AviSynth script to feed into your favorite encoder.

If 1280x720 59.94fps, then load the Decomb Plugin:

SelectEven()
Decimate(5)
LanczosResize(720,480)

to get them back to 23.976fps progressive (if shot on film). Or leave out the Decimate line if really 29.97fps (no duplicate frames after the SelectEven). Encode for 16:9.

[yoda313]

will tmpgenc downconvert and mainatin the ac3 file?

What you need to do is demux the ac3 file and convert just the video. Then after you get a dvd compliant mpg video file you can remux the ac3.

[stars]

hdtv2dvd doesn't seem to work on my mpeg2 files. apparently, i need to capture in .tp or .ts format.

Hi if you want to have a .ts stream just load the mpg file into projectx and save it as a .ts file...

stars....

[Kid Chameleon]

BJ_M I have used your Guide to convert my avi files to dvd and I have got great results. I was wondering what a avisynth script would look like for a 1280x720 progressive scan 16:9 mpeg file to dvd conversion. If you or anybody can help that would be great.

[manono]

I gave the script in my previous post.

[Kid Chameleon]

Sorry i didn't see that, thanks. What encoder do you find works best with this type of file cce or tmpgenc?

[manono]

I can't offer a comparison, as I always use CCE. Sorry.

[Kid Chameleon]

manono could you give me an example of a avisynth script for 1280x720p and 1920x1080i please. I am very new to avisynth and need somewhere to start. What is the best Decomb plugin and where do i get it? One other question, how do I know if my recording was shot on film?

[manono]

You're starting with MPEG, you say? Then, quoting myself from above:

Open it in DGIndex, go File->Save Project (which will demux the audio at the same time), and use the resulting D2V in an AviSynth script to feed into your favorite encoder.

Make sure Video->FieldOperation->Honor Pulldown Flags. DGIndex may be able to open your DVR-MS files directly. I don't really know, as I don't cap.

Read the 3 docs that come with DGMPGDec, particularly the QuickStart guide. It might answer your questions.

1280x720 script:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\Decomb.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
SelectEven()
#Decimate(5)
LanczosResize(720,480)

Open that in VDub(Mod) (adjusted for your paths and names), scroll to a place with movement, and start advancing a frame at a time. If you see duplicate frames every 5 frames (i. e., shot on film), then remove the "#" from the Decimate line, Save it, reopen it in VDubMod, and do the same thing again. Check to make sure there are no dupe frames or skipped or missing frames. If it looks OK, send to your encoder. Encode for progressive 23.976fps with pulldown during or after.

If you didn't see any dupe frames, then keep the "#" and encode for 29.97fps with no pulldown.

1080i is handled differently, and in one of two ways, depending on whether or not you're dealing with telecined film. If telecined:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\Decomb.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
AssumeTFF() #if TFF, AssumeBFF() if BFF
Telecide()
Decimate()
LanczosResize(720,480)

Encode as progressive 23.976fps, pulldown during or after.

If truly interlaced:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF, Order=0 if BFF
LanczosResize(720,480)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)#if TFF, SelectEvery(4,1,2) if BFF
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=True)

Encode as interlaced 29.97fps, no pulldown.

You can tell if that 1080i source is telecined or not by commenting out (putting a "#" in front of) everything below the MPEG2Source line. Open the resulting 3 line script in VDubMod. Find a place with movement/motion and start advancing a frame at a time. If, in every 5 frame sequence, 3 out of 5 frames are nice, clean, and progressive, and 2 are interlaced, it's been telecined and can be IVTC'd. If every frame is interlaced, it was shot on video, can't be IVTC'd, and must be kept at interlaced 29.97fps.

http://neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html Decomb
http://neuron2.net/kerneldeint/kerneldeint.html LeakKernelDeint at bottom of page

[Kid Chameleon]

Thanks a lot for all of your help, I will give it a try.

[Kid Chameleon]

I tried to convert a 1080i file first with the truly interlaced AVS script and it didn’t turn out. The video was very jerky. I then tried the telecined script and it turned out perfect. The file was a CSI episode. I thought that would have been interlaced and not telecined.

Is there an easer way to tell if a video is true interlaced or telecined? Would GSpot v2.6 be able to detect between the two?

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction to find a tutorial on how to set up cinema craft encoder for HD Video?

[manono]

Hi-

I tried to convert a 1080i file first with the truly interlaced AVS script and it didn’t turn out. The video was very jerky. I then tried the telecined script and it turned out perfect.

Obviously you have to figure which you have before you encode. You can't just randomly pick one or the other. Using the interlaced script, if the results were jerky, means you probably had the field order wrong. If you had the field order right, you would have gotten smooth playback and everything would have been good. That's the way it was broadcast, after all. However, by encoding 25% more frames (29.97fps interlaced), as opposed to encoding for 23.976fps progressive with pulldown, you're wasting bits, and lowering the video quality considerably when encoding for a fixed file size. That's one good reason to IVTC whenever possible. Also, test out your scripts in VDubMod before sending to CCE.

I thought that would have been interlaced and not telecined.

Most, but not all, modern TV shows are shot on film and, if for 1080i, telecined for broadcast.

Is there an easer way to tell if a video is true interlaced or telecined? Would GSpot v2.6 be able to detect between the two?

No, GSpot can't tell you. DGIndex can't tell you. BitRate Viewer can't tell you. Your eyes can tell you. What's so hard about:

You can tell if that 1080i source is telecined or not by commenting out (putting a "#" in front of) everything below the MPEG2Source line. Open the resulting 3 line script in VDubMod. Find a place with movement/motion and start advancing a frame at a time. If, in every 5 frame sequence, 3 out of 5 frames are nice, clean, and progressive, and 2 are interlaced, it's been telecined and can be IVTC'd. If every frame is interlaced, it was shot on video, can't be IVTC'd, and must be kept at interlaced 29.97fps.

Here's another way, but you'll probably like this one even less:

Load LeakKernelDeint. Have a basic script:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)#if TFF, Order=0 if BFF

Open it in VDubMod, scroll to a place with movement, and advance a frame at a time. If every frame is different, it's pure interlace. If the frames repeat in a 2 3 2 3 2 3 pattern, where the numbers represent how many times you see each frame, it's film and has been telecined.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction to find a tutorial on how to set up cinema craft encoder for HD Video?

It doesn't actually encode for HD, if that's what you're asking. No HD resolutions. Encoding downsized HD for DVD is the same as encoding anything else. Make a proper AviSynth script and open it in CCE. The CCE manual has most of what you need. Here's a guide that may help some:

http://www.doom9.org/mpg/cce270.htm

[Kid Chameleon]

I tried using CCE for one of my recordings and it didn’t turn out very good. It was a 1920x1080i telecined file. I don’t think I used the proper settings. Should I be using 2:3 or 3:2 Pulldown and under advanced video setting what should I set the N/M to 4 or 5 in the GOP sequence settings? One other setting I am not too sure of is the Block scan order in the Picture Quality settings. This is my first time using CCE so I am not too familiar with the settings.

One other thing, do I need to select the resize button?

[manono]

Hi-

Should I be using 2:3 or 3:2 Pulldown

Neither, if you're encoding for 29.97fps interlaced.

what should I set the N/M to 4 or 5 in the GOP sequence settings?

5, if encoding for 29.97fps.

One other setting I am not too sure of is the Block scan order in the Picture Quality settings.

Use Alternate Scanning if encoding for interlaced.

This is my first time using CCE so I am not too familiar with the settings.

That's what the manual is for.

One other thing, do I need to select the resize button?

Depends on how you got your video into CCE, and what the resolution is. I never use it.

Most of these answers change if encoding for 23.976fps progressive.

[Kid Chameleon]

I am still having problems with playback using cce to encode my video. Maybe you can tell me what I am doing wrong. This is the AviSynth script I am using:

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\Decomb.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Movie.d2v")
AssumeTFF() #if TFF, AssumeBFF() if BFF
Telecide()
Decimate()
LanczosResize(720,480)

I loaded the script into cce and the settings I am using for cce are:

Timecode setting – Frame # 0 => 01 00 00 00
Mode – MPEG-2 for DVD / Multipass VBR / Elementary / V/C 30 / Pass 1
Frame size – Resize is not selected
Frame rate – 23.976
Bitrate – Avg 6000 / Min 0 / Max 9000
Pulldown – Pulldown and Inv 3:2 Pulldown are grayed out with checkmarks. 3:2 is selected instead of 2:3
Aspect ratio – 16:9
Preprocess – Nothing is selected

The only thing changed in Advanced settings is Close all GOPs is checked, N/M = 4 and Offset line is 0.

In Picture Quality everything is deselected accept Intrablock DC precision is 10 bits and Block scan order is set to Alternate. The Quantizer characteristic is set to 27.

The 1080i source is telecined.

[manono]

With Telecide/Decimate in there, you're encoding for 23.976fps progressive. It would have been nice if you had mentioned that to begin with.

I have my Timecode setting for all 0s
When running multipass, I use more than 1 pass. Up to you. My V/C is 0, although a lot of people will disagree.
I don't use bitrate spreads like that. Up to you.
When encoding for 23.976fps, you have to apply pulldown either during or after the encoding, but before authoring. I apply 2:3 pulldown afterwards.
I use open GOPs for better quality for the same file size.
N/M should be 4.
If the source is TFF (be very careful here, especially since this is a capture), "output top field first stream" is checked, and offset is "0". If the result plays jerky or with stuttering, the chances are good you did something wrong, either in the script or the CCE settings. You should already have figured out the field order before adding "AssumeTFF()" to your script.
If encoding for progressive, Block scan order is set to Zig-zag.
My quantizer characteristic is set for 0. Some people would give me an argument on that one, though. I like full VBR encoding.

[sjmaye]

If they are already in mpg form then you can load them directly into tmpgenc without converting.

The files I am working with are .mpg I extracted from my HD Directivo. These are OTA HD programs at 1280x720p.

I realize I will lose some quality. I just want to make the files a DVD compliant mpg. You mean I can load these file in to TMPGEnc and the output will be DVD compliant?