question about unpscaling players...

[ricobico]

I earched here for about 1/2 hour, but the snwers were too technical:

I have a Mitsubishi 55" projection HDTV (bought in 2003). I have a standard, but good, Pioneer dvd player hoooked up with progressive scan on. I used good cables for the hookup and the picture looks nice. If I were to swtitch to a Philips or Samsung upcaling DVD player, like this model: Philips DVP 5960, would I notice a big difference when watching something like Toy Story or Star Wars? Would I notice any difference at all? The picture already looks good, but of course doesn't look as good as the HD chanels I have. Just curious.



thanks!

[BJ_M]

not a huge difference w/ the philips - if any at all --- plus i dont think your tv is compatible

[edDV]

Unlikely to have effect on a 2003 projection HDTV plus you don't have digital inputs.

This can be confirmed with a model number for your TV but unless it is a very high end model, you are probably optimal now.

[ricobico]

Just checked and my TV was bought in 2004 and has DVI, so I am good to go. The salesman and Magnloia Hifi says the Mitsubishi filters are so good that if I got a cheap upscale DVD player, I wouldn't see any difference. He says I would need to spend about $500 to make it noticable. Is that true?

[edDV]

Just checked and my TV was bought in 2004 and has DVI, so I am good to go. The salesman and Magnloia Hifi says the Mitsubishi filters are so good that if I got a cheap upscale DVD player, I wouldn't see any difference. He says I would need to spend about $500 to make it noticable. Is that true?

I'm sure he would want to sell you something for $500 but I doubt it will make much difference. Have him demo it on a TV similar to yours. Magnolia should be able to demo and give you an overnight test drive on your system.

A TV model number would help. If it is very high end, the story might be different.

[BJ_M]

it might have dvi - but does it have hdcp ?

and edDV is right -- sounds like they are just trying to sell you a more expensive dvd player

[ricobico]

It's the WS55411. It was pretty high end when we got it, but Indon't know compared to what's out today. The salesman said that it has DVI which can be converted, with a $25 dongle, to ACMI. This means little to me, but he said it was important for upcaling players. I figured he was trying to sell me a $500 player becasue that's pretty much all they carry. Magnolia people do seem to know more than most salesmen, though, so i thought there might be some trutyh to what he is saying. I wonder if the Oppo OPDV791H ($200) would be a safe bet. Maybe even a cheaper one I am missing (has to play PAl and NTSC). If an uplaclinf player doesn't really make much difference, the I'll just stick with my Pioneer.

[gshelley61]

Upscaling DVD players make the most visible difference with fixed pixel type digital displays (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma, etc.), whether direct view or projection.

CRT based displays like direct view tube TV's and CRT projection TV's don't seem to benefit much from upscaling players. At least that is the general consensus.

[ricobico]

Upscaling DVD players make the most visible difference with fixed pixel type digital displays (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma, etc.), whether direct view or projection.

CRT based displays like direct view tube TV's and CRT projection TV's don't seem to benefit much from upscaling players. At least that is the general consensus.

I guess I never realized mine was a CRT:

http://www.sightsandsoundsva.com/products/televisions/ws55411.htm


Guess I will hold off until i get a better TV. But this TV, although a obnoxiously large, is a fantastic set. beutiful picture.

Thanks for your help.

[edDV]

Upscaling DVD players make the most visible difference with fixed pixel type digital displays (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma, etc.), whether direct view or projection.

CRT based displays like direct view tube TV's and CRT projection TV's don't seem to benefit much from upscaling players. At least that is the general consensus.

I guess I never realized mine was a CRT:

http://www.sightsandsoundsva.com/products/televisions/ws55411.htm


Guess I will hold off until i get a better TV. But this TV, although a obnoxiously large, is a fantastic set. beutiful picture.

Thanks for your help.

Are you not happy with 480p DVD quality on that set? Also it does have "3:2 pulldown compensation" but doesn't describe if or how it upscales 480i. Early inverse telecine processors weren't all that good. Maybe this one is OK but 480p should work fine.

[ricobico]

I am happy with the picture, for sure,bBut if I could get a picture closer to HD with a $200 upgrade, I would do it. progressive is a huge improvemnet over interlaced, no doubt. I have not messedc with the 3: pulldown. is there much difference between that and progressive scan?

[edDV]

I am happy with the picture, for sure,bBut if I could get a picture closer to HD with a $200 upgrade, I would do it. progressive is a huge improvemnet over interlaced, no doubt. I have not messedc with the 3: pulldown. is there much difference between that and progressive scan?

The typical movie DVD is native 720x480p so there is no need to do the inverse telecine. 480p would be the DVD player and HDTV mode to use for movies.

Any upscaling is done by interpolating 720x480 pixels (similar to "full screen mode" on your computer graphics card).

If you are watching interlaced DVD (as recorded on a DVD standalone recorder), then any recorded TV series and movies are telecined. If you are in 480p mode, the DVD player has to process the image from 480i to 480p. If the DVD player and TV are in 480i mode, then the TV "3:2 pulldown compensation" will reverse telecine to progressive and frame repeat to 59.94 fps.

You need to experiment with the various modes. Sometimes the progressive DVD player handles 480i to 480p better, sometimes the TV does better.

A good progressive DVD player has the advantage of direct access to the digital pixels on the DVD media. The TV must work from the analog component representation. A poor progressive DVD player will do an inferior conversion (e.g. blend or bob) without inverse telecine causing a blurred result for movies.

So in conclusion, most people will be best off with a quality progressive DVD player (with cinema reverse telecine processing for interlace DVDs) and operate both the DVD player and HDTV in 480p mode. This places the full processing load on the DVD player. The HDTV will take the 720x480p input and scale it to the display's native resolution.

Upscaling to HDMI may have benefit for some displays, especilly the cheaper fixed resolution (~1366x768) LCD sets that lack good internal processing. The DVD player can deliver a 720p result close to optimal native resolution for that set. The HDTV would then scale 1280x720p to 1366x768 (usually with 5% overscan).

Upscale to 1080i requires high quality inverse telecine and scaling in the HDTV. The 480p native movie is telecined in the player and up interpolated to 1080i. Then the HDTV has to reverse that telecine to get back to progressive. Then the HDTV needs to scale the interpolated 1920x1080 to the display's native resolution (a second scale). All that may work OK for some TVs but always compare to 480p which is the direct and clean connection.