Digitalizing LP

[foxberry]

Hi ,
have a question but dont know where to place it. Iam wondering how to digitalize music tracks from my LPs to any other audio formats, for instance: CD or mp3?
Thanks for reply in advance.

[BJ_M]

turntable -> phono preamp -> line in on sound card -> record

[ZAPPER]

Ah. but that is only the tip of the iceburg

Restoration

[BJ_M]

my albums don't require any restoration, but if required - there are lots of choices ... the sonic foundry (now sony) noise reduction suite is one of the best

[yoda313]

I use cakewalk pyro for audio restoration. My version (2003) did an excellent job on a popping record track I dubbed. Sounded damn near perfect after it depopped it.

[wulf109]

Playing the LP wet provides silent playback. Water is usually used but I prefer 92% alcohol. Water has a nasty habit of noisy dry playback,alcohol seems to leave the dry play normal.
I prefer to record the LP tracks to my Pioneer DVD recorder in fine mode with WAV audio. Then rip the DVD.

[wwaag]

Playing the LP wet provides silent playback. Water is usually used but I prefer 92% alcohol. Water has a nasty habit of noisy dry playback,alcohol seems to leave the dry play normal.

Stupid questions, but how do you do this? Spray? Wouldn't the alcohol solution (what kind, denatured?) dry before you finish playing? Does this reduce the amount of "crackle"? Please explain a bit. Thanks.

wwaag

[wulf109]

I have several "Diskwasher" brushes and sprayers left over fron the days when Lp's were the only audio format. Put the alcohol in a small spray bottle. Apply a coat of alcolhol to the lp and use brush to apply to the surface of the lp while spining at 33. The diskwasher brush is the width of the grooved area,you might still find a similar brush at Radio Shack. While playing I spray the band playing to be sure it's wet. Unless there is physical debris in the grooves this make play silent. If the disk is so dirty that debris is in the grooves you need to cleanout that debris. Lots of alcohol and a brush will usually get the debris out.

[computerchuck]

i use nero wave editor

[Abbadon]

There is an application called Total Recorder that you could consider also.

[JudgeGarth]

I also use Cakewalk Pyro. You can input the entire side of the LP and then put in the track separators, change volume on individual tracks, delete tracks, move them around, etc.

[cyflyer]

Iam wondering how to digitalize music tracks from my LPs to any other audio formats, for instance: CD

I think his question is simple enough guys. He didn't didn't ask about restorations or dipping LP's in water etc. As long as you have a cd burner on your computer, and a working LP player which you can hook up, you simply need a conversion program to convert the LP audio to a digital 'wav' format on your computer. I used 'Roxio easycd creator Spin doctor' and it worked a treat. As for restoration, I found that recording 'as is' is more straight forward, and you don't end up lossing more than you gain. See if can get 'Spin doctor' or similar program and your on your way.

[FulciLives]

The CD format uses 16-bit 44.1Khz PCM audio (better known as WAV audio) and you should of course record in stereo even if the source is mono it will still be 2 channel and therefore "stereo".

No one else mentioned this so ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[foxberry]

The CD format uses 16-bit 44.1Khz PCM audio (better known as WAV audio) and you should of course record in stereo even if the source is mono it will still be 2 channel and therefore "stereo".

No one else mentioned this so ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Thanks alot, u understood me correct, what I meant.

[LloydAZ]

Hi ,
have a question but dont know where to place it. Iam wondering how to digitalize music tracks from my LPs to any other audio formats, for instance: CD or mp3?
Thanks for reply in advance.

Here's something interesting that I found, A USB Turntable. This would make recording LP's and 45's to WAV or MP3 really easy!

http://www.amazon.com/Ion-iTTUSB-Turntable-USB-Record/dp/B000BUEMOO/sr=8-1/qid=1157962...&s=electronics

[BJ_M]

cheap cartridge

[SingSing]

LP is recorded using RIAA equalization. To record a LP, a phono pre-amp is needed to reverse the RIAA equalization to pre-produce the audio, before digitising the sound.

Note : Most sound cards do not have built in phono pre-amp.

Un-compressed format like wav is the most suitable format, because un-compressed format do not introduce artifacts. Many digitized LP often sound better than the CD version of the same recording.

[BJ_M]

i said in the first post to use a phono preamp .. and recording to wav at 44.1 sample rate is still digitizing a analogue source - information is lost ... CD is exactly the same issue , but most cd's would be made from the masters - hence better quality than a LP .....

unless you use a real high end recording setup - you WILL lose info off the LP (even then - not everything will be captured as compared to the master tapes).

A lot will also have to do if the original recording was digital ..

Look for the DDD ADD AD AAD markings

[SingSing]

A good home digital recording is often better than factory re-master than involved many processes of re-sampling due to their manufactoring transfer needs. JVC and few other companies know that and started a direct digital to CD process, but it is not a commercial success.

Analog audio is always better than digital audio, becuase the lack of artifacts. The top of the signal chain is the master tape, which is recorded in high speed reel to reel analog tape.

How good a direct to disc, moving coil cartridge, pure wire type amp, studio monitor speakers can produced, is a loosing art. Because they are really rare after the CD revolution. But these extermely good analog/real sound is real, they just become really expensive.

[TheFamilyMan]

If your turntable is already connected to your stereo system, consider using the "tape out" from your receiver as the audio signal source for your computer's sound card's "line in". This is the best (and really only) way to record LPs if you are using a receiver that has a built-in phono preamp. (If your receiver has specific phono inputs it has a built-in phono preamp). The use of phono preamp is a must (as mentioned above), some turntables have one integrated into them; if you have on of these it can be used directly as your audio "line in" source. As for really good and decently priced recording/restoring/editing/digital formatting app, consider magix audio cleaning lab 10. It's really easy to use and its results are excellent IMO; magix also produces professional audio processing software. If you are interested check it out at their web site. Good Luck!

P.S. A really good phono cartridge with a really good phono preamp will rival or surpass any CD player. But I'm talking serious costs here, at least $300 to $500+.

[BJ_M]

yea - they can get pricey
http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/it.A/id.320/.f?sc=2&category=270

[SingSing]

Recording from LP to CD is about the same as LP to casette, because LP is not portable. With effort and grace, we can also enjoy a portable 'living room' sound, instead of the so-so CD sound.

[BJ_M]

the Vestax Handy Trax is a portable turntable .. plays in almost any position

[Cornucopia]

A good home digital recording is often better than factory re-master than involved many processes of re-sampling due to their manufactoring transfer needs. JVC and few other companies know that and started a direct digital to CD process, but it is not a commercial success.

Analog audio is always better than digital audio, becuase the lack of artifacts. The top of the signal chain is the master tape, which is recorded in high speed reel to reel analog tape.

How good a direct to disc, moving coil cartridge, pure wire type amp, studio monitor speakers can produced, is a loosing art. Because they are really rare after the CD revolution. But these extermely good analog/real sound is real, they just become really expensive.

I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to call you on this one.
That bit about "Analog is Better than Digital" stuff is just hooey! Both are good for different reasons (although in modern society, digital integrates more easily). Both have ARTIFACTS. Both can be low or high quality. It all depends on what equipment and settings you use, and what your level of attention to detail is.

For example: While many audiophiles could probably distinguish a good analog master tape or LP over a CD version of the same thing (and usually prefer over), just about NO ONE would be able to compare/prefer over a 24bit, 192kHz digital master. It's like the old "Memorex" commercials--I can't even tell the difference between live and that kind of digital recording.
And, in my job as audio engineer, I've done A/B comparisons like that while evaluating systems for determining purchases, so I know the comparison is valid.

And, FYI, MANY if not MOST commercial master recordings are done digitally these days (often for economic/business reasons, not artistic decisions).
Note aslo: the top of the signal chain is the sound producer (aka musical instrument); the master tape is ~4/5 steps down from that (0-source, 1-room, 2-microphone, 3-A/D, 4-mulitrack master, 5-mixed master tape).
And...there has been for the last 8-10 years a retro/nostalgia resurgence in analog LP, so I wouldn't say the art is dying out just yet.
Oh yes, direct to CD is fine for times when it's appropriate (and has been around since the mid-70's in analog form), but it is not often used, mainly for artistic reasons: if you go direct to disc (whether analog or digital), you can't "manipulate" it (aka edit) it beyond simple fade ups/downs. That's not how most producers want to work with their material.

Scott

[BJ_M]

i agree w/ Cornucopia ... i just didnt feel like arguing the point before ..


if you want to hear good CD's - listen to the DTS CD's as an example (if you dont have SACD etc playback or material) , the DTS cds ARE compressed - but 24bit , instead of 16 ... but more to the point are superbly mastered

[victoriabears]

This is a really interesting thread as my main focus has been getting my rare vhs material to DVD, but I do have a collection of audio tapes that I would like to digitise.

The main bore I see is the indexing of them as, obviously?,when you record from lp/tape to wav/mp3, it does not title/label the track.

Does the use of a 60gb ipod come into the equaition, imagine having your whole music collection on one of those?, obviously keeping a back up somewhere, am i right that ipods are just glorfied hard disks?

Also, what value is there in using dvd froma cassette tape deck as an audio only solution,even if just for transferring to pc for editing.indexing.

ALL your opinions on this are so useful.-thanks

[SingSing]

Muscial Instrument, voice, natural are all in analog form. The microphone, pick-up are all in analog form. Our ears are also in analog form. The optimum reproduction is as simple as possible. Analog in to Analog out.

I am very familiar and have been working with artifacts, aliases, harmonics, images, spurs from digitized signal in very wide spectrum. The artifacts didn't get detected in A/B digital/analog listening tests do not means those defects are not there. It has more to do with our sub-standard equipments - our ears.

We still can tell CRT can produces better video than LCD, there will be a day most people can't see the different in a A/B test. But the different will be still there. That will the dawn of video psychology.

[greymalkin]

i've never heard the "wet record" thing. That's pretty cool. Most people are looking for a "good enough" solution and attaining transfer perfection is outside of our reach. tips like this though are definitely helpful.

Saying analog is always better than digital doesn't take into account the mechanical playback mechanisms that introduce noise and degredation of quality over time. If you could play back your analog without this then it would certainly be superior, but even if it is possible is it attainable for most people?

[BJ_M]

you could always use a laser turntable instead http://www.elpj.com/

[TheFamilyMan]

Also, what value is there in using dvd froma cassette tape deck as an audio only solution,even if just for transferring to pc for editing.indexing.

If you are referring to archiving your tape collection to a data DVD, consider that you will still manually have to record each tape to your computer and set each of the recorded tape's track markers that are used to create individual track files. Some of the recording/restoring apps will do the marking automatically, but you will have to come up with the track names on your own. They may be clever ways to this, but I don't know any myself. As for the iPod compression, beware that >tons< of fidelity is sacrificed in the name of compression. If this doesn't bother you then there is no need to keep the .WAVs of the originals. (I've yet to bother with direct analog to MP3/iPod format recording...if such a beast even exists yet.)