interesting eBay experience

[AlecWest]

My online philosophy:
1.Use a creditcard that is not attached to your checking/savings account,that way a merchant can't drain your bank account.

One thing I learned is that a PayPal debit card can be set up so it has no backup funding source. In short, if you have no money in your PayPal account, charges to the card will be refused. This is not the default setting for the debit card - but it can be edited so it works that way. I've edited my settings.

Good luck AlecWest.

Thanks. I'll find out for sure on Tuesday. If it activates, everything's copasetic. I really want to get her up soon because she misses her online companions. She just got out of the hospital ... and it was while she was in the hospital that her kid did his dastardly deletions. However, unlike her first installation (which was done by Gateway), I'll tell her to guard this OEM disk with her life ... unless she wants to keep buying OEM versions (or retail).

P.S. BTW, when I say "kid," I should point out that her son is an adult. He decided to muck around with her computer on a visit ... and boy, did he. He likens himself to being a computer guru ... but is in fact a guy who just likes playing with D&D software and deletes files he considers unnecessary to gameplay.

[Ghostmaker]

You might just want to make sure she doesn't have the gateway restore disk, Gateway may not actually give a copy of XP with there computers, but the usually pack a restore disk that will set it up as the machine was delivered.

[InXess]

I just can't believe how complicated a simple issue could become. AlecWest, you should have contacted MS in the first place to get all the info. Secondly , huge percentage of the stuff on Ebay is surplus, used, grey market, NOS etc. You went there to get a better deal, didn't you. Well you got just that but in a different packaging... not uncommon on Ebay. Your request to get a refund before returning the goods was out of line. Who would do that? Next time you need to learn how to pick the right product and the seller. You can ask questions beforehand!
As pointed out this was not embargoed stuff only destined for a different market, still legal.
As to activation this is not a service incident just part of the registration process.
As to CC companies never heard of "stop payment". Once authorized it's gone. The seller has to reverse the transaction never a CC company unless you were fraudulently charged. You file a fraud report with them. This was clearly Ebay issue, not CC or PayPal. Goods were delivered but not described as they should have been possibly not to scare off the public which would have probably reacted in a similar way (what!? African XP...?). On this basis you were fully entitled to the refund under normal business practices. There was no reason to panic at any moment here. You've just learned your little lesson...

Now, look at the bright side, you've just bought a collectors item... Btw. is a customers service dept. in Redmond or Tora Bora? ... and do you really know what you activate with this XP... a mine field?

[AlecWest]

You might just want to make sure she doesn't have the gateway restore disk, Gateway may not actually give a copy of XP with there computers, but the usually pack a restore disk that will set it up as the machine was delivered.

Well, to put it delicately, she tossed/lost ALL disks/manuals given to her by Gateway. Frankly, I don't understand people like that. Heck, I even have the floppy-disk versions of DOS 4.2, Windows 3.1 upgrade version, Windows 95 (snicker, really, the floppy installation) full install tucked away in a box. One of these days, maybe I'll donate them to the Smithsonian for an antique software exhibit (grin). I'm a packrat and throw (almost) nothing away. My own WinXP Home OEM CD is about 3 feet away from me on a shelf ... as is my Win98SE OEM CD.

[AlecWest]

I just can't believe how complicated a simple issue could become. AlecWest, you should have contacted MS in the first place to get all the info.

I disagree. Remember, this is the first time I've ever received an OEM designated for offshore installation ... and I've ordered more than a dozen, most on eBay, a few from online non-auction storefronts. Being that eBay is an international marketplace, my first thought was that zTechSoftware made a mistake. Based on the package's designation, he has every right to sell this version to Africans and Middle Easterners. And after my first slightly nasty email to him, I figured he'd come back with something like, "Oh, crap - sorry. Send it back and I'll send you a domestic OEM."

I thought it was much better to seek that remedy first than "run to the M-cops" right off the bat. But, the more he insisted it was legal, the more suspicious I became - and that's when I did call the M-cops.

Your request to get a refund before returning the goods was out of line. Who would do that?

In hindsight, I agree that I was out of line. But as to "who would do that" - it would be a person knowingly selling an illegal product who wanted to keep things quiet. Kinda like a guy who runs into the back of your car, then tells you he'll pay for all the damages right away if you promise not to file an accident report or insurance claim against him. Keep in mind that while this powerseller has a high rating, his sheets aren't completely clean. He's had 8 neutral ratings - and 10 other ratings were mutually withdrawn. And there may have been other transactions that ended before feedback came into play.

Next time you need to learn how to pick the right product and the seller. You can ask questions beforehand!

(tongue-in-cheek mode, hehe) You remind me of a math teacher I had in school. I did a problem incorrectly and she pointed it out to me - saying, "If you didn't understand the problem, why didn't you ask for help first?" This assumes I willfully did the problem incorrectly and doesn't take into account the obvious alternative - that I felt I WAS doing the problem correctly and saw no NEED to ask for help. That's how people learn from mistakes. Asking questions beforehand is all well and good - assuming a person knows that a question needs to be asked.

You've just learned your little lesson...

That I have.

Now, look at the bright side, you've just bought a collectors item.

Well, it's for my friend's computer, not mine. I'm just the geek who'll end up installing it. But, if it activates OK, I'll tell them they have a collector's item.

Btw. is a customers service dept. in Redmond or Tora Bora?

I'm guessing that the piracy reporting line is in Bangalore based on the accent of the person who answered the phone. But when he transferred me to the corporate legal office, the lady was all-American (or had a darn good teacher).

Interestingly, when I finally did speak with corporate legal, I told them very clearly that I was a builder/installer and had an OEM disk. The lady then told me that offshore OEMs weren't covered under warranty. What she didn't tell me was that domestic OEMs weren't covered either. Really, why didn't she just say, "Sir, no XP OEM product is covered under warranty." If she'd said this, the issue would have been over. But because she didn't say it, it made me even more suspicious about the seller's motivations.

... and do you really know what you activate with this XP... a mine field?

As long as it doesn't contain a worm that sends out encrypted Farsi and Arabic emails to recipients in Tehran and Khartoum, I won't worry too much, hehe.

[AlecWest]

Followup to all this. - I installed the OEM disk yesterday. The installation was flawless and, even by modem, activation was immediate. So, all's well that ends well.

Of course, I put the OEM disk (and a special software/drivers disk I burned for her) in a sealed envelope and wrote IMPORTANT - KEEP THIS ENVELOPE on the frontside in big felt-pen letters. I also told her to keep it in a cool dry place. If her son comes back and mucks up her system again, those 2 CDs will get her back up and flying in an hour or so.

[Bodyslide]

Glad to see it all work out. Thanks for the update....I was wondering about what happened.

[verchad]

Followup to all this. - Of course, I put the OEM disk (and a special software/drivers disk I burned for her) in a sealed envelope and wrote IMPORTANT - KEEP THIS ENVELOPE on the frontside in big felt-pen letters. I also told her to keep it in a cool dry place. If her son comes back and mucks up her system again, those 2 CDs will get her back up and flying in an hour or so.

Good luck. My mother has bought 2 computers in her life, I helped set both of them up. Each time I told her, put these disks in a safe place, you might need them to restore things on your computer. Both times some of the discs have disappeared.

Glad the install went okay.

[AlecWest]

On another note, she had an older 2nd computer in her home-office room, still on Win98SE (used to be Win95 until I upgraded her). Her son mucked with it, too, but it was much easier to restore. He somehow shorted out her power strip (sigh). But a new power strip fixed the problem. And he "deleted" her "Active Desktop" settings as well ... so I had to use MSIE's "repair" mode to restore it. She can send email from either computer - but only the XP computer is set up to receive email. That way she won't have half her mail on one system and half on the other.

[lordsmurf]

For a kid like that, you almost should install VirtualPC 2004, and then put an OS inside of there, and that's his own special computer inside a computer.

I plan to set up several family members like that soon. I have several old versions (full editions) of previous Windows OS sitting around. I can install Win98 with IE for those who insist on using IE, and then install WinME or Win2000 or whatever inside another for children to use, while the host computer gets used only by the parent.

The best solution, of course, is to not share with kids at all. Get them something they can blow up. Just as long as yours is not messed up. Feel free to put them both in the same room, KVM the mouse, monitor, and keyboard. Then get a USB split for the printer. Easy!!!!

One thing I've always wondered about virtualization, especially using an MS product, is it against the EULA to install it twice? After all, they are both on the exact same system!

[AlecWest]

One thing I've always wondered about virtualization, especially using an MS product, is it against the EULA to install it twice? After all, they are both on the exact same system!

I suspect it's OK. Even before virtualization, people could technically set up, say, five 40meg partitions on a 200gig HD ... installing a different OS or the same OS on each partition. Of course, at boot-level, it only gives you a list of partitions to choose from - not a password protected scenario before choosing a partition. Am surprirsed Microsoft didn't jump on that sooner - as hard drives kept getting bigger and bigger. With a password protected scenario to enter a specific partition ... and with a scenario only allowing an "owner" to muck around with partitioning ... virtualization would be unnecessary.

[normcar]

They took back mony from my bank account when they said that the payer account was closed. Of course I had already sent the product. I also had not correctly set up my account to allow me to get my money back, so I was FUBAR. With the Paypal and Ebay agreements, they have probably added conditions to allow them to do whatever they want to get their money back under about any condition that may arise.

[zoobie]

Ha ha...I read www.paypalsucks.com years ago....filled with horror stories
Paypal's been trying to shut that site down for years since it uses the word Paypal in the domain
Lot's of eBay's members Paypal accounts have been emptied or charged by accident
...but I've never had any trubble....so far

[greymalkin]

every large business has a "sucks" site so that's really not anything new there.