A/V Synch problems after rendering with Premiere/Advice needed

[alegator]

I captured a Hi8 NTSC tape onto my PC using the Canopus ADVC100+Premiere Pro 2.The captured file was targeted to a 2nd internal hard drive and it ended up being 24.1Gb in size. I used DV-AVI NTSC Standard 48KHz project template within Premiere. I checked the captured file from start to end and the video looks fine with no A/V synch issues. So I imported this video into Premiere and generated 16 subclips according to themes. I then exported all of these subclips into movies using same video format as captured so no reconversion would happen during rendering (DV-AVI NTSC Standard 48KHz). I checked the clips and the first 5 or 6 clips look fine but as I check later clips there's a gradual A/V out of synch issue that gets worse in the last clip. So what happened? How come original captured file is perfect and after rendering the subclips with Premiere they turn out to have this A/V issue? How can I prevent this from happening? Maybe by saving exported subclips onto a 3rd hard drive instead of the 2nd hard drive? Thanks.

[edDV]

"and generated 16 subclips according to themes"

Can you be more specific what you did beyond marking an in and out point for each clip?

Themes? Filters? Any speed changes? etc.

[alegator]

Hi Ed, this is what I did. I first imported the original captured file (24.1 Gb, no A/V issues) into the Premiere Project asset list. I dragged that file into the Source Monitor and as you say I marked several In and Out points generating the 16 subclips in the process. The way I did this is once an in and out point was marked I right clicked on the source monitor and I chose "Make Subclip...", this generated the subclip to be listed automatically in the assets window together with the original captured file. Once all subclips (16 in total) were created in this way I exported the clips to the corresponding movie files with the same video settings as the captured file so no reconversion would happen during rendering. The way I exported the clips was by dragging each subclip into the Timeline Sequence window and then from the menu File/Export/Movie..., choosing the 2nd drive (where the orignal captured file is) as save location.This routine was done 16 times , once for each subclip.
By "themes" I mean my criteria for setting in and out points according to the subject in the footage. I don't think I altered any other parameter like speed, etc. I left all other options/settings in Premiere untouched.

[edDV]

What you are experiencing normally doesn't happen in Premiere or Premiere Pro. Further investigation is needed.

Normally, at least to v1.5 (I don't have v2.0 yet), audio and video default to "linked" and should remain linked through mark-in, markout and drag to timeline. You can unlock audio by right clicking on the audio track and select "unlink audio and video" as I recall.

The audio and video should remain linked through output to an exported DV-AVI movie. For other formats, it depends on the ability of the encoder to maintain audio sync but my experierce has been all encoders supplied by Adobe have maintained audio sync.

Let me add this. I'm a long time beta tester on these types of products and have a reputation for breaking anything put in front of me. The software engineers can never break their own product because they "know" how it "should" be operated.

My secret for breaking beta products is this. I approach the product as if a newbie and imagine ways they might choose to operate the product without reading anything. It usually takes only minutes to crash it. Each revision to software has unintended consequences.

Maybe they broke the link between video and audio in v2.0. I tried the v2.0 demo and quickly concluded it would have to await a hardware upgrade to Core 2 (my decision).

You need to call Adobe support. They should be well aware of the problem by now and may have a fix out already.

[alegator]

Thanks. One more thing. Just as an experiment I imported the original Premiere DV-AVI captured file into Windows Movie Maker and tested making a clip at the very end of the video. It produced the clip successfully without any A/V Synch issues. I chose NTSC DV-AVI as export format within Windows Movie Maker (no other options were available to further tweak parameters). The question is, is this clip created by WMM in the same exact audio and video format as the original Premiere captured file or was there some conversion in the rendering? How can I check this? If WMM preserves all original audio and video format then it might be a temporary solution to doing this until I resolve the Premiere A/V Synch issue. Or what simple software would you recommend to do this task successfully preserving all original format?

[alegator]

Hi,just to add more info, I did all of the following:
1) The A/V synch problem is independent of the player used, I viewed the rendered movie in the monitor window within Premiere, in Windows Media Player, Nero Showtime, Cyberlink PowerDVD, etc...they all show A/V synch problem. (Audio comes out form the PC speakers using internal sound card).
2) I rendered the same subclip with other video editing software (using the Premiere captured file as source) and there is NO A/V synch problem in the rendered file (I tried Windows Movie Maker and Ulead Video Studio 10 Plus).
So the problem arises in the Premiere rendering process. I have no idea why Premiere is generating this problem. I'm starting to think that it might be hardware related??

[edDV]

Hi,just to add more info, I did all of the following:
1) The A/V synch problem is independent of the player used, I viewed the rendered movie in the monitor window within Premiere, in Windows Media Player, Nero Showtime, Cyberlink PowerDVD, etc...they all show A/V synch problem. (Audio comes out form the PC speakers using internal sound card).
2) I rendered the same subclip with other video editing software (using the Premiere captured file as source) and there is NO A/V synch problem in the rendered file (I tried Windows Movie Maker and Ulead Video Studio 10 Plus).
So the problem arises in the Premiere rendering process. I have no idea why Premiere is generating this problem. I'm starting to think that it might be hardware related??

I've never seen this happen in Premiere or Premiere Pro so I'm at a loss to comment.

Here are some Premiere specific forums where you might find help.
http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=adobe_premiere
http://www.wrigleyvideo.com/forum/
http://www.postforum.com/forums/list.php?f=43
http://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=230

Plus the Adobe support forums.

[alegator]

Thanks Ed, do you have the link to the Adobe Support Forum? Thanks.

[edDV]

http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/

[alegator]

Thanks Ed, I already posted to all those forums, will let you know if I find a fix or the cause of this problem. Regards.

[alegator]

Just an update. I experimented rendering the subclip with Premiere using a different method and it worked fine, the rendered movie has NO A/V synch issues. This is how I did it: instead of generating subclips I double clicked the captured file making it appear in the source monitor. I marked the in and out points for a given clip and instead of generating a subclip I dragged directly the marked clip in the source monitor onto the timeline sequence. I then went to FILE/EXPORT MOVIE. It seems that generating subclips in the asset window slows Premiere and creates this issue in rendering.

[edDV]

Just an update. I experimented rendering the subclip with Premiere using a different method and it worked fine, the rendered movie has NO A/V synch issues. This is how I did it: instead of generating subclips I double clicked the captured file making it appear in the source monitor. I marked the in and out points for a given clip and instead of generating a subclip I dragged directly the marked clip in the source monitor onto the timeline sequence. I then went to FILE/EXPORT MOVIE. It seems that generating subclips in the asset window slows Premiere and creates this issue in rendering.

Interesting. Congradulations on finding a way to break it.

[alegator]

Disappointing news, the method I last outlined was repeated without success. On the other hand I tried rendering with other software suites (Ulead Videostudio, Media Studio Pro, VirtualDub, etc) and none of them exhibit this issue when rendering. So I'm starting to believe that my PC hardware is below Premiere Pro 2 demands and that with a more powerful PC this wouldn't happen.

[alegator]

It seems I'm not the only one...
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=307708

[edDV]

garringt in that other thread makes a good point that the timeline should be renderd (preview process demands it). But I've not seen the problem with DV format. HDV (MPeg2) on the other hand would have all the MPeg2 issues in Premiere. That is MPeg2 would need decompression.

Are you getting any feedback from those other Premiere forums?

[alegator]

Yes, I did get feedback from the other forums but none pointed to a solution. One mentioned the possibility of "truncated" frames in Hi8 recording, but if that were true then other software like Ulead, etc would also be affected by the A/V Synch problem. So end of the story, I'll just capture the rest of the tapes with Premiere Pro 2 and then do the clip rendering with other software which I tested and works fine.
One more thing I could try is to see if this happens with TRV950 MiniDV stuff I captured using Premiere too. My guess is it won't happen, but I'll post the results when I get them.