DOA Motherboard Upgrade?

[CobraPilot]

My daughter's eMachine T2542 died. Online info suggests high rate of failure of this motherboard.

When turning it on, nothing much happened except the power supply fan turned much slower than typical speed. A "Guru" told me this was almost 100% a motherboard failure, probably without damaging the CPU (Celeron 2.5 ghz).

Sounded like a m/b upgrade project to me . . .

Ordered an ECS 661GX-M from Newegg.com, based on the listing that said it was Pentium 4/Celeron-compatible, micro-ATX, etc.

Installed m/b, checked everything, turned it on. The power supply works at "full fan" speed, CPU fan spins, but nothing beyond that: Nothing onscreen. Pressing the on/off switch to turn it OFF does NOT work, which may be a hint as to my problem, whatever it is.

I've tried different RAM modules which match the m/b's specs without success (the modules work okay in another computer).

I have no way to tell if the CPU is also fried without taking it to a repair shop. Or do I?

The installation manual for the m/b does NOT mention Celeron compatibility, but a feedback comment from another upgrader on NewEgg's website indicated success with a Celeron 1.7ghz CPU.

Any ideas? Perhaps I have a DOA m/b?

[Barnabas]

My emachine did exactly the same thing. Turned out to be the memory, 1 stick had come loose.

[jyn999]

Do you have another computer that you can remove the CPU from and put in the replacement MB? If it works, then the MB is good and your Celeron is toast.

[CobraPilot]

Alas, no compatible m/b readily available to test the CPU.

I've tried the RAM module(s) in both sockets to see if it was a "looseness" problem, but that made no difference.

[ROF]

Probably a DOA motherboard. It happens. But you should also be aware that the Windows XP included on your hard drive with the t2500 series eMachines is specifically tied to the motherboard and will not boot without it.

[fatbloke88]

Hi,
just a thought,. but did you reset the bios after you rebuilt the pc?,i just put another board in a compaq and what ROF said is true but it should post.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Could be the power supply,they use cheap PSU's in the factory builts.

[TBoneit]

Quite often when we have to change the E- MAchine Motherboards we also have to change the Power supply.

In Your case if you had come into our store we would test your PS for you.

[dfgh11]

I've had the same problem. However, like you I can't test all the components. .As this has happened to me twice this year, using the same PSU, I'm inclined to believe that this is possibly the cause, in my case, and considering that in both cases the board powers up but doesn't post boot, I'm equally inclined to believe it is the CPU that has died. I will eventually test my theory, when I have enough money.

[CobraPilot]

Thanks for the suggestions. My apologies for not providing better tech specs as to what actions I had taken:

o I installed a brand-new power supply, 100 watts MORE than the original. (I've had previous experience with underpowered eMachines!)

o I get ZERO on-screen messages, no RAM count, no POST, no nuthin', so I cannot access the BIOS and the hard drive gets no chance to boot. (I don't have the original hard drive; am using a bootable spare.)

Could a typical repair shop test just the CPU? It'd be simpler to yank the CPU rather than trying to put everything back together and take the entire unit. The "guru" I mentioned in my original post was convinced a m/b going bad was unlikely to fry the CPU, but "guru" can be a VERY relative term. . . .

[budz]

My suggestion is to remove the cpu and take it to a computer repair shop to have it tested. Then depending on the outcome you can base your decision of what to do next. Perhaps it maybe time to buy a new pc. There are many good deals right now with back to school sales at local stores like Compusa, Best Buy and Circuit City.

[Afterburner]

If you do decide to take it somewhere to have it tested, take everything!

[CobraPilot]

Budz, you are certainly right about the "good deals" on new PCs, to the point that repairing an older one hardly makes much sense anymore . . . . .

. . . . But I STILL like the occasional challenge, and it DOES help minimize the electronic "stuff" in the landfilles!!

[budz]

Budz, you are certainly right about the "good deals" on new PCs, to the point that repairing an older one hardly makes much sense anymore . . . . .

. . . . But I STILL like the occasional challenge, and it DOES help minimize the electronic "stuff" in the landfilles!!

If you're up to the occasional challenge have you ever tried building a pc? It's not hard to build a pc, it's the troubleshooting that is challenging should one have hardware conflicts.

[TBoneit]

I don't know of a typical computer shop that would have a CPU tester as such. Most likely would be a cheapo motherboard that supports your CPU so that install CPU, Thermal Compound, Heatsink Fan, Memory, Power Supply, then test, reverse process. For something like that process We'd have to charge just on the basis of time spent. Testing a power supply is much easier I would just plug it into the tester and then plug in the P/S and know right off.

IMHO if you are sure the motherboard is good? Even a Newegg can get bad parts.

If you had bought it local and you brought in the mobo and CPU assembled and said bad mobo they'd most likely test it for you.

Quick question, You did clean off the heatsink and CPU and then apply heatsink compound? The Intel will shut off if it gets to hot very quickly. We had a Dell where somehow the customer broke one of the 4 hold downs for the heatsink assembly. The computer wouldn't even post. Relaced the broken part and back in service.

Other thing to check, go to the ECS site and check to be sure that your motherboard supports your CPU. Also while there look on the bios sticker of your motherboard for the version and then check the bios updates to be sure you do not need a newer version to support you CPU.

Good Luck

[ROF]

I don't know of a typical computer shop that would have a CPU tester as such.

Why are they in business then? Last time I checked the computer is the CPU. Oh that's right quite a few of them are into overcharging(more than $20 an hour) for repairs and ripping you off on new equipment or by telling you that something is wrong with your old stuff when in fact it is viable to fix, nothing is wrong, or simply one part needs to be replaced to make the machine working again.

[oldfart13]

A friend has a similar problem in that the computer powers up okay but no video, just a black screen. I have tested the RAM, Video Card, CPU, etc. Everything is fine. I tried a different ATI video card to replace his other video card and it's still the same, power up, sound from speakers, everything....just no video. Ah well, he bought this one in 2001 so maybe he should just get a barebones system and install his drive into it. A cheap one these days costs so little and he'd see such a big improvement in speed...but you know people and money.....

[pchan]

Please try the following.....

1. Strip your PC to the bare minimum. Only CPU, RAM (one module at a time), PSU, and video card. Power on and it POST where you see text display on the screen. The will be a short beep if it's OK. Long beep.... not OK. Check your RAM module. Maybe its not sitted properly.

2. Start adding on other components if you get pass 2.

3. Did you connect the ATX2 power connector (4-pin). Top left coner (label 21).
It will not boot if it's NOT connected.

[ROF]

oldfart13

Is there an option for OnBoard video in that motherboard? How about a PCI slot or a different PCI slot to try? The AGP slot or PCI slot the original video card was in may no longer be functional. I would try this before trashing the system. A PCI card can be had for less than a cheap carton of cigarettes. It is an inexpensive fix that will allow your friend to save up for a decent system upgrade.

[Nelson37]

Unbelievable.

They are in business to make a profit. Do you expect them to take parts that somebody bought somewhere else, and test them for free?

A dedicated CPU tester is quite simply a dumbass idea. It would have to be replaced every couple years as sockets change, and what exactly would it test? They have, in stock, the proper and correct testing equipment for any CPU. It is called a motherboard. This will give an accurate and useful real-world test of CPU functionality.

To the OP, your "guru" needs a new tinfoil hat. A slow PS fan might indicate an unusual load on the PS, which could be ANYTHING plugged into the PS, including drives, mobo, fans, or CPU, it could indicate a bad PS, it could indicate dirty fan bearings or a bad fan motor, it could indicate an electrical problem at your location. Did this repeat at least three times?

New motherboard may be faulty, settings may be wrong (are there jumpers or does it auto-set?), it may not support your CPU (it should be listed in the manual, one post from one unknown individual who may have the model number wrong is not solid information), you could have a bad CPU, you could have a short in the IDE cable or a dead drive (HD is NOT NEEDED to test at this point, REMOVE IT!!!), if you plugged in the old PS and it was bad you may have fried a perfectly good mobo, you may have improperly installed the CPU or fan and thus compounded your problem.

My suggestion - return the board. Take your CPU into local store, with PS. Have cash ready to spend. Explain you need a mobo, and possibly a CPU. You are prepared to pay to have them install, and would like to watch in order to learn proper procedure. Do not mention purchasing a mobo online. If the shop is dealing with a paying customer rather than a cheapskate PITA looking for freebies they will install your CPU on the board, test it, and if it works you walk out the door with a working PC for the cost of a motherboard. If it does not work, then purchase a CPU, which they will probably install for nothing or a minimal fee. See if they will let you do it while they watch and keep you from screwing up.

Will it cost a little more? Sure. Add up the shipping cost on your current board, including return shipping, time lost, time waiting for return of cash spent, value of current frustration level, value of being able to return parts for immediate replacement, value of having experienced techs who know what they are doing show you how to do it correctly, along with LOTS of other very useful information you would NEVER get from Newegg, you do the math.

[ROF]

Unbelievable.

They are in business to make a profit. Do you expect them to take parts that somebody bought somewhere else, and test them for free?

A dedicated CPU tester is quite simply a dumbass idea. It would have to be replaced every couple years as sockets change, and what exactly would it test? They have, in stock, the proper and correct testing equipment for any CPU. It is called a motherboard. This will give an accurate and useful real-world test of CPU functionality.

Exactly. It should be nominal fee if anything to test dead equipment. Does any respectable auto repair shop charge you to tell you what is wrong with your vehicle? I didn't buy the car there and may not even have it repaired there.

Any computer repair shop should have ann assortment of test equipment to include a testbed with motherboard(s). Why do I keep my Cyrix Motherboard around? Socket A? etc. Simply for testing older socket CPUs and the ocassional ISA card that comes into the shop. In most cases, I charge nothing for testing this old gear. That must be why I have been in business for over 10 years and watched other computer shops in the area open and close.

[Nelson37]

A certain amount of freebies for good customers is definitely good advertising, within reason. SOMEBODY has to pay the light bill.

The auto shop I go to regularly will diagnose for free or minimal charge, for me because I do other business there. A shop I have never been to before will usually charge for a diag, depending on the labor involved.

The freebie is a "bread upon the waters" sort of thing, for regulars I do it all the time, for new customers I will do it ONCE. Many will continue to bother me for free advice and support with no intention of ever spending a dime. These are easily identified and eliminated when I tell them I will have to come on site and take a look at it personally, without even mentioning a cost. If they are not willing to pay, EVER, then they are a waste of my time. I am not a charitable organization. What really ticks me off is many of the cheapskates have a waterfront house with a 40-foot boat in the backyard.

There are unfortunately many people in this world who simply do not understand how business works. Don't need 'em, don't care to work with them.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Exactly. It should be nominal fee if anything to test dead equipment. Does any respectable auto repair shop charge you to tell you what is wrong with your vehicle? I didn't buy the car there and may not even have it repaired there.

As a matter of fact most(auto or electronic shops) do charge for a diagnostic check(~$65USD),if they repair something they will deduct the cost from the bill.Now if the car or PC is under warranty there's no charge.
Getting back on-topic it might be cheaper just buying a new mobo or PSU,CPU's or memory rarely fail unless they overheat.

[ROF]

The freebie is a "bread upon the waters" sort of thing, for regulars I do it all the time, for new customers I will do it ONCE. Many will continue to bother me for free advice and support with no intention of ever spending a dime. These are easily identified and eliminated when I tell them I will have to come on site and take a look at it personally, without even mentioning a cost. If they are not willing to pay, EVER, then they are a waste of my time. I am not a charitable organization. What really ticks me off is many of the cheapskates have a waterfront house with a 40-foot boat in the backyard.

You must live in my neighborhood. You speak of the same cheapskate ritz (my term for them)around here. You also have identified the way I do business. I will frequently test peoples dead stuff once for free. When I tell them what is broke and my cost to repair or replace and they walk out the door. I have a record of what I tested and for whom. 5 months later when they call back with a similiar problem but a shiny new part possibly causing the issue I tell them my price to look at it. There is usually a pause on the phone and I either hear I will bring it in or I'll call you back. Either way, I have gotten my point across without ripping them off by charging $40 plus an hour for fixing a computer.

There was a computer shop here a few years ago that thought they could repair or reinstall operating systems for $60+ an hour with a two hour minimum. I laughed when they barely made it to the two year mark. They had a very small selection of product for sale too at some really outrageous prices. These people do not realize there is a Staples 3 blocks away, a Walmart up the street, and CompUSA within 5 miles. Your prices must beat them for your products and your service must be top notch and cheap in order to avoid people going elsewhere.

Another key for my business is that you can not lie or talk circles around a non-tech informed customer. Too many of those "other guys" make up stuff as they go along using computer jargon and lingo to run circles around your typically customer. Customers do not want to hear this. The do not want the gritty details. They just want to know what's wrong (in plain english or spanish as the case may be), how I can fix or replace it, and what it will cost. They do not want to hear "I will get back to you with a quote". In business that means let me find out exactly what I am going to spend, add my markup on the parts, my overpriced labor, and tack on a few more bucks to pay my kids college tuition. I do not tell a customer what is wrong until I know what is wrong, if it can be repaired what i will charge or what it will cost me to install a new part. I rarely use acronyms when explaining. An AGP port is simply a graphics issue or display port.

[TBoneit]

I don't know of a typical computer shop that would have a CPU tester as such.

Why are they in business then? Last time I checked the computer is the CPU. Oh that's right quite a few of them are into overcharging(more than $20 an hour) for repairs and ripping you off on new equipment or by telling you that something is wrong with your old stuff when in fact it is viable to fix, nothing is wrong, or simply one part needs to be replaced to make the machine working again.

You have a tester in your shop that has sockets for all the different AMD & Intel processors?

We have such a rare need for such a dedicated device that I could never justify buying one. The power supply tester is used regularly. Of course it needs a bit of interpretation as Many working Dell PSs wouldn't pass with all green sinc ethey have one wire missing. The White one as I recall.

Or are you using CPU as meaning the whole computer? When I say CPU I mean the processor. The last dead Intel I saw was due to the customer trying to install it himself, Bent pins then tried to straighten them, yup broke em off. If they'd brought it in we could most likely straightened the pins without damage. I see home built computers with no video quite commonly, Motherboard screwed down titgh to the metal instaed of using standoffs, floating hard drives, Mobos with two screws more or less holding them in place, floppy power plug off by one pin, shorts out the supply so it won't turn on, plug properly and suddenly turns on. When I see these things I dissasemble the computer and rebuild it properly, Wire ties to neaten up and improve airflow etc. Two drives on one cable both set to master....

[ROF]

I don't know of a typical computer shop that would have a CPU tester as such.

Why are they in business then? Last time I checked the computer is the CPU. Oh that's right quite a few of them are into overcharging(more than $20 an hour) for repairs and ripping you off on new equipment or by telling you that something is wrong with your old stuff when in fact it is viable to fix, nothing is wrong, or simply one part needs to be replaced to make the machine working again.

You have a tester in your shop that has sockets for all the different AMD & Intel processors?

We have such a rare need for such a dedicated device that I could never justify buying one. The power supply tester is used regularly. Of course it needs a bit of interpretation as Many working Dell PSs wouldn't pass with all green sinc ethey have one wire missing. The White one as I recall.

Or are you using CPU as meaning the whole computer? When I say CPU I mean the processor. The last dead Intel I saw was due to the customer trying to install it himself, Bent pins then tried to straighten them, yup broke em off. If they'd brought it in we could most likely straightened the pins without damage. I see home built computers with no video quite commonly, Motherboard screwed down titgh to the metal instaed of using standoffs, floating hard drives, Mobos with two screws more or less holding them in place, floppy power plug off by one pin, shorts out the supply so it won't turn on, plug properly and suddenly turns on. When I see these things I dissasemble the computer and rebuild it properly, Wire ties to neaten up and improve airflow etc. Two drives on one cable both set to master....

You misunderstand. I test CPUs in the socket they are intended to be used in. Not in a dedicated tester. I have a selection of desktop and towers and products which are specifically used to test peoples potentially dead equipment. Including old ports, slots, sockets, networking gear etc. If by power supply tester you mean those things with LEDs telling you if it's functional those are all well and good but mostly give false readings. False in that they do not give you an exact. They just tell you fail/pass. Don't misunderstand this either. I have a few of these devices myself for quick diagnostic but I would not rely on this to tell me if the power supply is fully functional. Just that it is pushing proper voltages given the load supplied by the power supply testing device.

So yes, I do have a tester for all the different AMD, Intel, Cyrix and Cyrix hybrids.

[TBoneit]

I've been with this store since spring of 1996 we have lots of repeat customers. I do not have any simple policy of charge or not.

My cheapskate detector has gotten tuned up here though. They all seem to have the same process.

1. come into the store, Can I help you? Just looking
2. Sidle up to the repair counter 5 or so minutes later, Can I help you?
3. Ask the real reason they came in, My computer is doing so and so, what do you think it is?

Or the phone rings and they want free support for a computer they bought somewhere else. I can turn a % of those into customers.

I've done some phone support for one of our customers, He's said up front I'll pay I don't expect you to spend your time for nothing. The next time he comes in, it could be months too, I add $10 to his bill.

Yesterday I got a computer back to a student leaving early this morning for college. It came in tuesday afternoon, bad hard drive, left messages, no return call. I pulled a spare used HDD installed XP Pro, drivers and security updates on spec. He cam in about 1 PM, Ok'd a new drive, I ghosted the one I'd been working on, transferred what I could of his data over and he's happy. Our charge $188 parts and labor. Maybe we are high I do not know. I do know we are lower than the Geek Squad. I'm amazed how many computers we get from new customers with Purple Best Buy stickers on the bottom. GS didn't get it fixed.

One persons ramblings FWIW

With regard to beating the Big guys prices, We have so many repeat customers because of the quality of the work. Not The price. Our local Compusa's (2) both have over a week to fix anything and as likely as not it won;t be fixed. I had a customer that had something fixed under warranty there and then came here saying is it suppsed to rattle? PCi card rattling around inside.

Our typical charge for cleaning viruses and spyware is $99 or we'll back up data and Zero the drive then start as if it were new and install the OS clean, restore the data for a little less.

[TBoneit]

Oh I wouldn't trust the tester with LEDs to completely pass a power supply as they can fail while supplying all the proper voltages but be unable to meet the load.

OTOH when you plug it into the power supply the customer dragged in and it never turns on or a couple of voltages are dead or the cooling fan never runs it is a useful tool.

You are right I understood you to mean you had a dedicated tester. I can not imagine what one that tests all functions could cost.

Cheers

[ROF]

It would not really be worthwhile to buy one of those anyways. CPU makers change configurations so often even sometimes within the same socket/slot that any readings might prove to be false.

[CobraPilot]

[quote="pchan"]Please try the following.....

1. Strip your PC to the bare minimum. Only CPU, RAM (one module at a time), PSU, and video card. Power on and it POST where you see text display on the screen. The will be a short beep if it's OK. Long beep.... not OK. Check your RAM module. Maybe its not sitted properly.

2. Start adding on other components if you get pass 2.

3. Did you connect the ATX2 power connector (4-pin). Top left coner (label 21).
It will not boot if it's NOT connected.
____________________________

Thanks for the suggestions.

o PC is already a "bare minimum" configuration, based on your criteria. Video is built-in. Original eMachine chassis did NOT come with a speaker. I'm about to scrounge one elsewhere and see if I can get the "beep" you describe.

o I've tried different compatible RAM modules from working machines, in both sockets. RAM from the original machine works in another PC I have (AMD).

o ATX2 connector attached.

Seems I'm in a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation: Can't tell if the m/b is bad without a known good CPU, and I can't tell if the CPU is bad without a known good m/b.

May have to bite the bullet and take my DIY project to the shop . . . .

I'm still wondering if the fact that the on/off switch will turn the system ON but not OFF isn't some sort of clue as to what's going on . . . . ? I have to turn it off via the on/off switch on the new PS.