Best Capture Settings/software for: VHS->WinTV PVR USB2->DVD

[BassKozz]

I am converting homemade VHS's to DVD using my Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-USB2, and I am trying to get the best quality possible.

Whats the best software to Capture?
Whats the best software to edit/filter/enhance the output (captured) video?

And what settings should I use?

I relize there are probably many-o guides and FaQ's on this, but they are all very confusing to me... I am currently using WinTV2000 (came packaged with my Hauppauge Device), and I just want to make sure I am getting the most out of it. Maybe I should be using VirtualDub, but for some reason I can't get that to capture properly... I assume it has something to do with VfM and/or DirectShow issues, but I can't seem to figure that out either
Sorry for the repeat of questions you experts have probably heard thousands of times, but could you please help a newbie out and point me in the right direction?

Thanks for any/all help,
-BassKozz

[dadrab]

Well, I'm pretty much a newb too, but I'll tell you what I think I know.

Maybe I should be using VirtualDub, but for some reason I can't get that to capture properly... I assume it has something to do with VfM and/or DirectShow issues, but I can't seem to figure that out either

VirtualDub records in AVI format. Your WinTV-PVR-USB2 is a hardware MPEG2 encoder.
Probably why that's not working.

I've read here on many occasions that it's best to use the native software to record with. That should prove true in your case as well. Use the program that came with your device. Use a high enough bitrate to account for movement and action, however, overkill is possible too.

Maybe that helps a little.

I've been reading here for six months or so, now. I don't claim to have many answers, but there are some folks here who are really sharp. Just make sure you do your homework before posting up.

[jameshgross]

I use WinTV2000 with my Winpvr usb2.0. Works great and its free from Hauppauge.

[BassKozz]

Ok,
I am sticking with WinTv2000, now for my next question...
Whats the best settings to use to get the best (closest to source / lossless) capture from VHS ?
I know I should be using 352x576 Res... but what about bit rate...
Constant or Variable ? What setting?
Are there any guides to using WinTV2000 for optimal captures?

[FulciLives]

Use a CBR video bitrate of 8000kbps with 384kbps MP2 audio and capture to a muxed MPEG file (audio and video in a single MPEG video) but before you burn to a DVD-R make sure you convert the MP2 audio to AC-3 format. An AC-3 bitrate of 256kbps should be A-OK. Some DVD authoring programs can do the AC-3 encoding for you (such as TMPGEnc DVD Author) or you can use the freeware program fffmpeggui but you will have to demux first and that can be tricky.

MPEG-VCR is probably the best tool for that ... you can also use it to edit the video prior to demuxing it.

Demux ... demuxing ... demultiplexing ... all of these are terms that simply mean to take your captured file (MPEG file) and extract it to a separate video and audio file.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BassKozz]

Thanks FulciLives,

What should I set for the GOPs ? Or does that function not even matter?

[BassKozz]

Isn't 8000kbps too much for VHS recording?
According to DigitalFAQ (http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm#mpegbitrate) 4000kbps~6000kbps should be enough... or am I reading this wrong?
Will the extra 4000kbps make a difference?

Thanks again,
-BassKozz

[FulciLives]

Thanks FulciLives,

What should I set for the GOPs ? Or does that function not even matter?

15 but I think that is the standard GOP size so you shouldn't have to change it.

Isn't 8000kbps too much for VHS recording?
According to DigitalFAQ (http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm#mpegbitrate) 4000kbps~6000kbps should be enough... or am I reading this wrong?
Will the extra 4000kbps make a difference?

For home video stuff do what I said. That is "MAX" quality and should fit about 1 hour per DVD disc (single layer not double layer).

For "quality" VHS stuff like maybe something you recorded from a clean cable TV channel etc. then you can go lower. I still would try to keep it at least no lower than 5000kbps if you can help it but remember that bitrate determines how much you get on a DVD. So with really long stuff you may have to go lower than 5000kbps to make it fit onto one DVD disc.

There is also an alternative I did not mention before ...

This device can capture up to 15,000kbps so if you really wanted to MAX it out you would do a CBR of 15,000kbps for the video bitrate. You would then have to re-encode with a software MPEG-2 DVD encoder as that bitrate is "too high" for the DVD format. But this is a good thing if the video needs a lot of "work" such as video noise reduction or if the video is very long ... this way when you use the software MPEG-2 DVD encoder you can do a true multi-pass VBR encode from your "master" capture at 15,000kbps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SHS]

This part "edit/filter/enhance the output (captured) video?" you should at Mpeg Video Wizard.
NTSC standard GOP size 15 and PAL should be 12 but you shouldn't really have mess with it just levae at stock setting.
As for AC-3 format it petty a waste of time in the long run I think when every DVD Home Player all ready support MP2 audio and not going be any saving any more space over it.
If your Video are one hour then use MAX bitrate 8500kbps for CBR or VBR 6500kbps / 8500kbps

[BassKozz]

I am confused... why would you want to eat up all that HD space capturing @ 15,000kbps?

According to the graphs (bell-curves) on this site (http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm#mpegbitrate) captureing at or above 5000kbps (352x480) you won't notice any preformance enhancement... or am I reading these graphs incorrectly ?

It also says not to use CBR:

These bit-rates are not VBR/CBR specific. Using VBR may gain slightly better results. Using CBR may yield slightly lower quality results.

So from what DigitalFaq.com says I should setup my captures at: VBR 4000-6000kbps

or am a totally wrong here?

[FulciLives]

This part "edit/filter/enhance the output (captured) video?" you should at Mpeg Video Wizard.
NTSC standard GOP size 15 and PAL should be 12 but you shouldn't really have mess with it just levae at stock setting.
As for AC-3 format it petty a waste of time in the long run I think when every DVD Home Player all ready support MP2 audio and not going be any saving any more space over it.
If your Video are one hour then use MAX bitrate 8500kbps for CBR or VBR 6500kbps / 8500kbps

MPEG VIDEO WIZARD is the same as MPEG-VCR ... just different names for the same program.

I still say that AC-3 audio is better for compatability than MP2 audio.

If using MP2 or AC-3 then yes you can use a CBR of 8500kbps or use it as a MAX for a VBR recording. I was perhaps beinga bit overly conservative before when I said to limit it to 8000kbps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I am confused... why would you want to eat up all that HD space capturing @ 15,000kbps?

According to the graphs (bell-curves) on this site (http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm#mpegbitrate) captureing at or above 5000kbps (352x480) you won't notice any preformance enhancement... or am I reading these graphs incorrectly ?

It also says not to use CBR:

These bit-rates are not VBR/CBR specific. Using VBR may gain slightly better results. Using CBR may yield slightly lower quality results.

So from what DigitalFaq.com says I should setup my captures at: VBR 4000-6000kbps

or am a totally wrong here?

You only use 15,000kbps if you intend to re-encode later on.

VHS can still benefit from Full D1 resolution (720x480) but in a lot of cases you are A-OK at Half D1 resolution (352x480). It's a matter of choice. If the VHS I want to put on DVD is not that long I use Full D1 ... if it is long then I use Half D1. It is true that Half D1 hits the MAX bitrate at around 5000kbps (unless the source is EXTREMELY noisy). Full D1 should be capatured at no more than 8500kbps if you want to NOT re-encode. Otherwise if you will re-encode then capture at 15,000kbps.

The VBR thing is only when you are using a lower bitrate than the "MAX". For instance if you are doing Half D1 and the program is only 100 minutes long then just do a CBR of 5000kbps.

If you are doing something that is much longer and you have to go below 5000kbps so it will fit on the DVD then you do a VBR encode.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BassKozz]

I still say that AC-3 audio is better for compatability than MP2 audio.

Compatability with DVD players or Software ?

You only use 15,000kbps if you intend to re-encode later on.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Why, will the re-encode need the extra bit-rate?

[FulciLives]

I still say that AC-3 audio is better for compatability than MP2 audio.

Compatability with DVD players or Software ?

You only use 15,000kbps if you intend to re-encode later on.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Why, will the re-encode need the extra bit-rate?

The "rule of thum" is NEVER use MP2 audio with a NTSC DVD player (i.e., THE USA). One should stick with PCM WAV or AC-3. People will argue to death over this point though ...

As for the 15,000kbps CBR video bitrate thing ... Let me try to explain.

Some people like to capture at the highest quality possible so as to get a "master" recording/capture. Then they will re-encode this with a software encoder. Why? Well they might want to apply some video noise filters to the video. They might want to perform an IVTC to the video. The video may be very long and real time VBR can only do "so much" so they want to do a true multi-pass VBR with software.

So if you ARE going to capture with the intent to re-encode THEN you want the BEST possible capture you can get. The unit you have cannot do more than 15,000kbps video but it can do exactly 15,000kbps hence the reason you use it ... it is the MAX of the hardware. But again only if you intend to re-encode.

One could very easily argue that the whole point of a hardware MPEG encoder (which is what you have) is that you capture ONCE to the desired frame size and bitrate you want. This will work more often than not unless you have a source you need to post preocess for a variesty of reasons I already gave.

Hope that clears it up somewhat.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlecWest]

The "rule of thum" is NEVER use MP2 audio with a NTSC DVD player (i.e., THE USA). One should stick with PCM WAV or AC-3.

Absolutely. When I first got my Hauppauge capture card, I always burned the MP2 audio from a capture. Then one day, I made a DVD for a friend and he couldn't hear the audio. I took the DVD home and the audio sounded fine on my player.

But "the player" is the issue. All DVD players recognize AC3 audio. But not all DVD players recognize MP2 audio. Since that day, I've never burned a DVD with MP2 audio. Once I get the M2V/MP2 files ready for authoring, I first uses ffmpeggui to convert the MP2 to AC3 ... then author, using the AC3 audio file. No complaints since then.

[SHS]

John MPEG-VCR only a few filter very very baics stuff and there is no Video enhance in MPEG-VCR like Mpeg Video Wizard which has lots 2D/3D Transition Filter and Video enhance and even a Title Editor, Drawing Graphics and Movie Effects

[FulciLives]

John MPEG-VCR only a few filter very very baics stuff and there is no Video enhance in MPEG-VCR like Mpeg Video Wizard which has lots 2D/3D Transition Filter and Video enhance and even a Title Editor, Drawing Graphics and Movie Effects

Yes yes yes you are correct. I got confused. Still though I don't really see the need for the more "fancy" version unless you are editing like home video material.

For just trimming the start and end points of a capture and even for removing commercial breaks all you need is the basic program.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BassKozz]

Ok, I've been capturing @ 15,000kbps now to get a source, but then what program is the best to re-encode?
I've used TMPGenc, but are there better apps out there for re-encoding?
Also what settings should I use to re-encode a VHS capture at 352x480 & 15,000kbps ? (the ones suggested on digitalfaq.com = VBR 5000~6000)

I've noticed when re-encoding(TMPGenc) and cutting scenes (VideoReDo) out of a capture file reduces the quality of the image (ever so slightly), I notice a loss in color and clarity, even when the re-encode is set to the same as the capture (352x480 & 15,000kbps). Is there a way around this?

[FulciLives]

Ok, I've been capturing @ 15,000kbps now to get a source, but then what program is the best to re-encode?
I've used TMPGenc, but are there better apps out there for re-encoding?
Also what settings should I use to re-encode a VHS capture at 352x480 & 15,000kbps ? (the ones suggested on digitalfaq.com = VBR 5000~6000)

TMPGEnc Plus is a popular choice due to quality and ease-of-use. Personally I prefer Cinema Craft Encoder aka CCE Basic. However to get the "most" out of CCE you need to learn AviSynth which can be a bit "tricky" to learn.

If you will be doing Half D1 resolution (352x480) then a CBR of 5000kbps or higher is fine but if the movie is long enough that you have to use less than 5000kbps then you would want to do a 2-pass or multi-pass VBR when you re-encode.

You need to use a bitrate calculator. Here is a link to one ---> CLICK HERE

As for re-encoding here is what I would do ...

Use DGIndex to create a D2V project file. This is what you load into your MPEG encoder (i.e., such as TMPGEnc Plus or CCE) as the video source. In DGIndex you want to set the ouput to YUV not RGB. DGIndex will also demux the audio to a MP2/MPA file. This way you convert the MP2/MPA file to the AC-3 file format using ffmpeggui while re-encoding just the video with your MPEG encoder.

DGIndex and ffmpeggui are freeware. Really all you need to pay for is the MPEG encoder and if you want to edit you need a good MPEG editor such as the MPEG-VCR or VideoReDo.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I've noticed when re-encoding(TMPGenc) and cutting scenes (VideoReDo) out of a capture file reduces the quality of the image (ever so slightly), I notice a loss in color and clarity, even when the re-encode is set to the same as the capture (352x480 & 15,000kbps). Is there a way around this?

VideoReDo will re-encode frames at EDIT points but only a few frames and nothing to worry about. The output should look the same as the input.

TMPGEnc Plus works in the RGB colorspace so often times there will be a slight different in the output vs the input ... in terms of brightness and/or contrast.

This is why I prefer to use AviSynth and CCE as you can use the YUY2 colorspace and the output will match the input ... at least in terms of brightness/contrast.

Obviously if you capture at 720x480 at 15,000kbps MPEG-2 and then re-encode to 352x480 with a CBR of 5000kbps you will notice a difference (i.e., a drop) in quality.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Before you edit or do anything with your captured files it is a good idea to run the file through the VideoReDo option called "Quickstream Fix" as this will "fix" the file so that possible lost of A/V sync does not happen. Although even if you do NOT do that the loss of A/V sync should not happen but better safe than sorry.

[BassKozz]

TMPGEnc Plus is a popular choice due to quality and ease-of-use. Personally I prefer Cinema Craft Encoder aka CCE Basic. However to get the "most" out of CCE you need to learn AviSynth which can be a bit "tricky" to learn.

Yah, this seems a bit tricky to pick up. I might look into this for future projects, but for now, Quick and easy is better

As for re-encoding here is what I would do ...

Use DGIndex to create a D2V project file. This is what you load into your MPEG encoder (i.e., such as TMPGEnc Plus or CCE) as the video source. In DGIndex you want to set the ouput to YUV not RGB. DGIndex will also demux the audio to a MP2/MPA file. This way you convert the MP2/MPA file to the AC-3 file format using ffmpeggui while re-encoding just the video with your MPEG encoder.

DGIndex and ffmpeggui are freeware. Really all you need to pay for is the MPEG encoder and if you want to edit you need a good MPEG editor such as the MPEG-VCR or VideoReDo.

Great, I'll give this a try, but I don't like the fact that TMPGEnc uses RGB colorspace, will converting this to to D2V fix this issue?
When using DGIndex, how do I set it to use YUV?
The only option I saw was in the Video menu: "YUB->RGB : PC Scale or TV Scale

VideoReDo will re-encode frames at EDIT points but only a few frames and nothing to worry about. The output should look the same as the input.

TMPGEnc Plus works in the RGB colorspace so often times there will be a slight different in the output vs the input ... in terms of brightness and/or contrast.

This is why I prefer to use AviSynth and CCE as you can use the YUY2 colorspace and the output will match the input ... at least in terms of brightness/contrast.

Are there any other apps (user-friendly apps) that use the YUY2 colorspace?

Obviously if you capture at 720x480 at 15,000kbps MPEG-2 and then re-encode to 352x480 with a CBR of 5000kbps you will notice a difference (i.e., a drop) in quality.

I thought the whole point of capturing @ 15,000kbps was so that I could re-encode at a lower bit-rate and not lose quality...
Let me ask you this:
If I have a video that doesn't need re-encoding (filters), should I stick to captureing at a lower bit-rate to start with?

P.S.
Before you edit or do anything with your captured files it is a good idea to run the file through the VideoReDo option called "Quickstream Fix" as this will "fix" the file so that possible lost of A/V sync does not happen. Although even if you do NOT do that the loss of A/V sync should not happen but better safe than sorry.

Will do...

John, let me also say... you are the man !!!
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP