mpeg1 vs mpeg2 at 1150 bitrate

[ultramarine]

I have a bunch of barney VCD that my daughter ows. I've backed up all the .dat file on in my hard disk. I need backup. The issue is that bite marks magically appear on the original VCDs.

I've also got a bunch of VHS cartoons.

I can stuff 10 of these into 1 dvd. Should I convert them to mpeg2 at 1150 VBR or mpeg1 at 1150 CBR? Which is better quality? The resolution is 352x288 PAL.

Please help

[cd090580]

The only thing you need to convert to put them on dvd is the sample rate of audio.

VCD is 44100 Hz, DVD is 48000 Hz.

If you author them with TDA, it should convert your audio on the fly while authoring

[ultramarine]

What about VHS to DVD?
MPEG1 @ 1150CBR or
MPEG2 @ 1150VBR ?

Which is better quality or are they the same?

Thanks in advance.

[guns1inger]

What you are really asking is, which is the better grade of crap. Both will look pretty average. VBR with only an average doesn't really tell us much. What max and min would you use ?

Personally, I would go to half-d1 resolution at around 3000 kbps, however I would probably clean them up a bit first to get the most from the low bitrate.

[codecpage]

VBR is better than CBR, but that's not the point.
Some people argue that VHS is bad anyway so VCD format is enough. That's not true for 2 reasons: Even with the worst VCR, vertical resolution is still twice that of VCD, and VCR is often interlaced, so VCD drops half the temporal resolution.
Appropriate for VCR would be SVCD, but that's not compatible with DVD.
So if you want a decent backup, no way around full format MPEG2. With a good encoder like CCE, you may be content with about 2500 VBR, more or less, dependent on the source.
What you really want to do all the time, is to chase that really lousily noisy tape stuff through some good filters, like VirtualDub's temporal smoother. The 'VHS' filter is also mandatory, to compensate for the vertical colour downshift. More filter hints on my page.

Codecpage

[Bjs]

Vcdgear ... turn dat to mpeg ... if dvd player support's folder nav ... then burn all straight to dvd .

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Converting mpeg1 to mpeg2 will come out like rubbish at such a low bitrate ...

A good method , thought it is long ... dose produce excellent result's .

1: Vcdgear ... dat from disc to mpeg on hd
2: Load mpeg into windows movie maker ... must have chapter detection and creation enabled .
3: Save project once loaded ... movie maker is not very stable under large project's .
4: Build 3 minute clip's on time line ... save out as dv avi .

You might want to have 40+ gig for this ... atleast 45gig for single run ... so when all part's are done , you can close window's movie maker ... it hate's being sent to taskbar ... and waiting .

Once all clip's have been produced ...

Run each clip through Canopus DV File Converter or Ulead DV Type 1 to DV Type 2 Converter
Convert from dv1 to dv2 .

Delete original clip's as they are converted ... save's hd space .

You now open first clip in vdub
Then append all other's in correct sequence .
Set audio to full processing ... check conversion is 48khz , stereo , 16bit ... no compression .
Video , filter's , resize ... change to scale required for mpeg2 ... pal is 720x576 ... nstc 720x480 ... I think .

Start frameserver ... note

Go into vdub folder before server start ... double click on ausetup , install handlers , then exit .

Now start frameserver ... click ok on next window ... in next , name file ... and ADD the avi extension to file name or server will not work .

Run bbmpeg_vfw ... click add , load this avi from vdub .
If audio dose not load , dont panic , it can be extarcted as wav back in vdub later ... encode that wav with besweet to ac3 ... no lower than 96kpbs in bitrate , or audio will not be heard in playback .

In bbmpeg , start encode ... in next box , hit setting's .

Program stream's = setup mpeg format ... mpeg2 in this case
Stream setting's = Setup for mpeg2 ... if pal , check pal box as well .
Input - output = "mpeg video stream temp file (save if checked)" ... check it
General setting's = encode video only ... uncheck those muxer's .
Click ok ... click start ... and wait .

The resulting mpeg2 stream (m2v) , and the ac3 generated via besweet can be authored to dvd format using ifoedit , rejig , dvdauthorgui ... and many other's without issue .

If you decided to rescale back to original size of those dat's ... if you wish to transcode them to make them fit better on dvd ... DO NOT USE DVDSHRINK ... it will stuff them .

Use rejig only to perform this function .

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Authoring with menu .

Grab any full scale clip from dvd ... a preview will do .
Use vobedit to demux audio and video from clip .

Convert audio to ac3 with besweet if required ... problem ... virtualmod can demux audio as pcm wav ... do so if you have any problem's .

Run dvdauthorgui .
Add first title ... this preview .
Generate menu with enough structure to accomplish requirement's for navigation .
All menu button's for now head to clip .
End of clip can be exit , or return to a menu .

Author to folder .

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Run pgcedit
Import your converted dat title ... now a vob .
Now import menu from dvdauthorgui creation only .
Recheck navigational command's are correct , save dvd when done .

Play test dvd before burning ... if navigational error happen's , go back into pgcedit and recheck nav command's ... one of the or more are incorrect .

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Burn to dvd using imgburn ... nero can choke or say "nope" ... mine if I use the desktop icon dosent do it ... but run it from program file's and it say's "no can do" ... really stupid .

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Final ... simplest method .
Modern pc with tv out ... hooked up correctly .
Play video to vcr , record to high quality tape .
Record back to pc in dvd ready format .

That's a really simple method .

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As you can tell , it's how I record all my game's I play ... doom3 ... halflife ... sports car gt ... motogp ... sims ... simcity4 ... 100's more .

Card involved : Nvidia geforce fx5500 from msi .

[Cornucopia]

IIWY, I'd leave the MPEG1's alone. The quality won't get any BETTER, and would likely get a good deal worse if your re-encoded it. Just do the SampleRateConvert on the audio (44.1-->48kHz) so it'll be DVD-compliant.

For the VHS's: If you haven't captured/digitized them yet, I'd go with 1/2 D1 (352x480/576) at 3000kbps AVG (~5000kbps peak, ~900kbps min). This should look pretty good compared to the VHS original. If you don't want to expend that much bitrate, it would make sense to make the cutoff point around 2200kbps. Anything lower, and you should probably just use MPEG1.

If they're already capped and encoded as MPEG1, also leave them as is (do the same SRC for the audio here).

Scott

[jagabo]

For backing up VCD there's no point in converting either the video or audio. Just make ISO images of the VCDs and store them on data DVDs. Then it's easy to recreate VCDs as necessary.

[nightcat]

I agree with Cornucopia. The MPEG-1 file will not get better any more. If you want to re-encode this kind of file, try to use the TMPGEnc, i think it has best quality when re-encode expporting.

Wish to help you.

[guns1inger]

Backing up VCDs is only the first part of the question. There is also the question of encoding VHS tapes for DVD.

[lordsmurf]

I firmly believe MPEG-1 handles lower resolution better than MPEG-2 does. That's just a simple answer to the simple question.

[SingSing]

At that bit rate, you are right on.

[ultramarine]

Thanks a lot guys. This thread is really helpful. I'll play around with these recommendations and see how things goes.

I converted a 5 minute clip
-- one with mpeg1 @1150
-- other with mpeg2 @1150

On my computer, there is no difference.
On my samsung player, there is no difference.
On my akira player, the mpeg1 displays better than mpeg2

Don't know why.

[teegee420]

Go with Lordsmurf on this and stick with mpeg-1. Personally, I wouldn't use mpeg-2 for anything less than 2000kbps, and I'm only talking CVD and SVCD resolutions of 352/480x480