Picture Tube TVs: Going Away Faster Than Expected

[MOVIEGEEK]

My CRT tv's aren't going away soon,I even have a 25" RCA tv from 1984 that still works good...it was made in the good ole US of A.

[ROF]

I say good riddance to the tube TV. Those who have them will likely hold onto them until the day they longer produce a picture on the screen. I think long after tube TVs are no longer available for sale they will still be around in peoples homes. Some are quality made products and display a good picture.

Plus, putting the old tube out to the curb can be just as distressing to some people as euthanizing a family pet that is dying. They grow so attached to the tube that nothing, even with it's fading picture, will ever seem to be able to bring a smile to their face again if they get rid of it.

[NiteLite]

A good calibrated 36" CRT looks good with OTA, Cable/Sat, and DVD.
I refuse to pay a Sat/Cable company extra money for a picture mandated by the US government. What a rip-off.
I cant say how long I will keep mine but I assure you, ROF, that the demise of it will not lead to the clinical depression you alluded to in your post. Surely you jest.

One thing I will mention is I had a Toshiba 32" TV that stayed under some nasty water for 5 days and left wet upside down for several weeks. When I got temp housing I went back and got the TV, took it to a neighbor's garage and cleaned the casing with a clorax based cleaner. I then removed the back case. From there it set for a month with the back off and air drying.
When I got temp housing set up I with the help of a neighbor that had experience with explosives plugged it in and it came on. I hooked up a Sat cable and it worked. Suprise. After another good cleaning I moved it to the temp house and watch it or it was on 12 to 24 hours a day, everyday
Two years later I moved into my new home and it came along. It still worked fine. In fact it was working fine when I upgraded to a 36"almost 4 years after it being under very acidic water for a week.
Yes, I replaced it with another Toshiba as I consider them the best of the large CRTs. (32-36 inch) after calibration and especially for cost vs. quality.

I would like to see an LCD or Plasma or almost any of the latest types of video producers do that. That's only one of the reasons I like the CRT and I know it's an extreme and unusual example. But things happen

Sure when more "true" HD is available, hardware cost decrease, and / if I am not penalized for following my government's laws by having to pay out the arse for programming in the HD format, I'll eventually change. But I dont see that happening for quite some time as of now.
To complete the circle: A good calibrated 36" analog CRT can and does look very good.
Just another opinion and what I think is an interesting story about what the CRT can go through and keep on working.
Regards,
NL

[somebodeez]

Should the day come when my tube TVs are on their deathbed, hopefully HDTVs will have gotten their act together and can handle my stuff properly and prices will be better.

[Seeker47]

Unfortunately, I think that good consumer CRTs are already gone.

I was going to ask if any good non-consumer (more expensive, Pro-grade) CRT monitors are still being sold, and if so which they were. But then,

A good calibrated 36" CRT looks good with OTA, Cable/Sat, and DVD.
. . .
Yes, I replaced it with another Toshiba as I consider them the best of the large CRTs. (32-36 inch) after calibration and especially for cost vs. quality.

I remembered that these had garnered very favorable reviews in the past. Are these still on the market ? Are such current models -- if any -- still highly regarded ?

[edDV]

Unfortunately, I think that good consumer CRTs are already gone.

I was going to ask if any good non-consumer (more expensive, Pro-grade) CRT monitors are still being sold, and if so which they were. But then,

A good calibrated 36" CRT looks good with OTA, Cable/Sat, and DVD.
. . .
Yes, I replaced it with another Toshiba as I consider them the best of the large CRTs. (32-36 inch) after calibration and especially for cost vs. quality.

I remembered that these had garnered very favorable reviews in the past. Are these still on the market ? Are such current models -- if any -- still highly regarded ?

I've been seeing these in stores and Sony Outlets for under $1000. An excellent TV if you can find help to lift it.
http://www.epinions.com/content_165004086916

[NiteLite]

I remembered that these had garnered very favorable reviews in the past. Are these still on the market ? Are such current models -- if any -- still highly regarded ?

Hi Seeker,
Along with reviews and some research, I talked to two TV techs. One in business for almost 30 yrs. Both suggested the Toshiba for:
*Quality vs. costs (even though the 1st 32" was high retail, my actual cost was a very good discount)
*Repair history. Toshibas were seldom seen either in the field or returns.

My 36" was so much cheaper as prices had dropped a lot then for analog TV's when everyone was pushing the 3,4 thousand dollar Plasmas.
I found a very good sale at Sears, got a good customer discount and it was their 10% off weekend also. So i paid very little, maybe $600. or little more with delivery.
Out of the box it looked good but after running a calibration disk even better. I then went into the service menu and worked on things like overscan, a minor screen imperfection in one corner, and that was about all that was needed.
Also had a it looked at by a Tech with proper equiment and he said it required very little adjustment.
Anyway blacks are black and whites are white and all in between are fine. Screen Hor. & Ver. are excellent
Most that have seen it are amazed at how good this analog with a single S-Video input looks so clean and defined and with depth.
Totally satisfied and will take a long time for me to be willing to replace it.
Good luck,
NL
With no disrespect to the above poster (posting the same time)
Sony's in my area all had offset letterbox black bars that could not be fixed. Everyone in every store.
None of the store reps had noticed it until I pointet it out and they got rulers to prove me correct.
The screen adjust on the back did not help.
I think when Sony went to Mexico and reduce their warranty to 3 months that was a big sign of quality control going way down. For me it was a no brainer picking the Toshiba over the rest of the offerings.
I'll bet a lot of people that have the Sonys never cheacked their black bars when viewing a 16X9 show or DVD.
Again, these ar my findings and are not to contradict any other post.
Regards,
NL

[Specialist]

I have the Toshiba 26DF56 standard definition widescreen set:

http://tinyurl.com/qv4op

It's not high definition, but it can receive and display high definition by converting it to standard definition and it looks surprisingly good.

The edge enhancement is a little strong, but you can manually lower the SHARPNESS setting if you want.

Only $378 at Best Buy.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Specialist]

Toshiba also makes the high definition tubes:

http://tinyurl.com/9wnmb

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[ejai]

I own a $4,000.00 DLP HDTV and hardly ever use it. The majority of shows I prefer look better on regular TV and the HDTV I own gets very little use. When I do use it I sometimes watch DVDs on a dvd player that has the HDMI output.

The dvd that plays through the HDMI player has acceptable video quality (not quite HD, but close enough). I feel very content using my older set because the older dvds and satellite broadcasts look much better on the older system. HDTV sets are only good for HD formats.

My family wanted the HDTV, I must admit this the first time I wasn't pushing to make the plunge, I would've prefered to wait.

[edDV]

I own a $4,000.00 DLP HDTV and hardly ever use it. The majority of shows I prefer look better on regular TV and the HDTV I own gets very little use. When I do use it I sometimes watch DVDs on a dvd player that has the HDMI output.

The dvd that plays through the HDMI player has acceptable video quality (not quite HD, but close enough). I feel very content using my older set because the older dvds and satellite broadcasts look much better on the older system. HDTV sets are only good for HD formats.

My family wanted the HDTV, I must admit this the first time I wasn't pushing to make the plunge, I would've prefered to wait.

You might consider getting the HD service from cable, sattelite or over the air. The old recordings will still look better on the old TV.

[GilbyGood]

To the best of my knowledge Field Sequential 3D Format videos require an analog tube TV or the 3d cannot be seen. So with this in mind we need to keep these around or technology needs to be found to allow for 3d viewing.

[davideck]

AFAIK, HDTV CRT sets do not adjust their scanning frequencies to match those of the source. Instead, they always upconvert to their HD resolution just like any other HDTV display.

CRTs have an advantage over LCDs in the computer monitor market in that they can adjust their scanning frequencies to modify their "native resolution" to match the source.

Do any HDTV CRT sets do this? They seem to have discarded one of their best advantages.

[edDV]

...
CRTs have an advantage over LCDs in the computer monitor market in that they can adjust their scanning frequencies to modify their "native resolution" to match the source.

Do any HDTV CRT sets do this? They seem to have discarded one of their best advantages.

No multi-sync in HDTV mode.

All US CRT HD TV sets that I've seen work only with variations or 480i, 480p, 540p*, 720p and 1080i and only at 60Hz +/- a small tolerance. Only higher end models support 720p scan rates.

CRT sets don't have "native resolutions" like a LCD. They have supported scan frequencies H and V that scan behind a shadow mask and dot pitch phosphor screen. The viewer resolution is limited by the dot pitch. This is also true in Multiscan computer monitors that may scan 1600x1200 (UXGA) but display less limited by dot pitch.

There are CRT monitors capable of 1440 to 1920 x 1080 resolution display from the front but most are limited to 800x600 to ~1024x1080. If you can't see the 1080 lines with a magnifying glass, then your dot pitch is lower.


* 540p/29.97 results from dropping odd or even fields from 1080i. Some cheaper HDTV sets do this for all 1080i inputs. This eliminates the need for deinterlacing filters to get to progressive but results in half motion resolution. Flicker is managed by repeating frames 2x to 59.94. The same sets usually upscale 480i inputs and/or display 720x480p/59.94 directly.

[SingSing]

I was hoping based on merit and continous development of CRT technology, at least CRT projection TV will be around. Look like they are also going away, because they are also " Not Thin and Not Sexy".

[davideck]

No multi-sync in HDTV mode.

All US CRT HD TV sets that I've seen work only with variations or 480i, 480p, 540p*, 720p and 1080i and only at 60Hz +/- a small tolerance. Only higher end models support 720p scan rates.

So do any CRT HDTVs dynamically adjust their actual number of scan lines to match the source? For example, will any sets that support 720p scan rates scale back to 480i or 480p scanning for these sources, or will they always scan at 720p and upconvert?

[Seeker47]

*Repair history. Toshibas were seldom seen either in the field or returns.
Also had a it looked at by a Tech with proper equiment and he said it required very little adjustment.
Anyway blacks are black and whites are white and all in between are fine. Screen Hor. & Ver. are excellent.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I recall seeing in reviews. (The ones that have some technical credibility.)

Most that have seen it are amazed at how good this analog with a single S-Video input looks so clean and defined and with depth.

Input Options: that is one area I find disappointing. It is true of many sets in this "twilight era" of the CRTs. My 27" AV-series JVC -- circa 1996 -- is that way. Using the single S-Video input disables all the other inputs, so it's an either/or proposition. And I have multiple sources feeding that tv, so I had to put in a pretty good switcher -- particularly if I wanted to use the S-Video for a better picture, and I did. Contrast that with my circa 1988 Proton monitor, which hardly compares picture-wise at this point, and which doesn't have S-Video, but it does have 3 (or maybe 4 ?) independent and completely separate inputs, with sound + video for each. Now that is a much better type of design, as far as I'm concerned, and it is something I would pay more for. I don't think you are going to see that anymore, though.

[edDV]

No multi-sync in HDTV mode.

All US CRT HD TV sets that I've seen work only with variations or 480i, 480p, 540p*, 720p and 1080i and only at 60Hz +/- a small tolerance. Only higher end models support 720p scan rates.

So do any CRT HDTVs dynamically adjust their actual number of scan lines to match the source? For example, will any set that supports 720p scan rates scale back to 480i or 480p scanning for these sources, or will it always scan at 720p and upconvert?

A typical CRT HDTV will adjust itself to 480i, 480p, 720p (if supported) or 1080i as detected on the analog component or DVI/HDMI inputs. Square pixel 640x480p@60Hz usually works for VGA/DVI/HDMI. Other resolutions and scan rates other than 60Hz. are usually rejected unless specifically supported.

Some models accept a limited set of VESA specs on a VGA or DVI input. These are usually stated in the manual (e.g. 800x600, 1024x768 or 1280x1024). My Philips CRT here only accepts 640x480p/60 or variations of 540p/60 (PowerStrip generated) over VGA. It may support other resolutions but I hesitate to risk destroying the set.

Over analog component I can feed 480p or 1080i only. Other sets like the Sony downstairs accepts 720p from the computer over analog component.

Some LCD HDTV sets may support multisync in computer monitor mode, but the models I've seen limit Vesa resolutions to one or two (typ. XGA 1024×768, or WXGA 1366x768, sometimes 1280x1024).

I'd appreciate others relating their experiences hooking up a computer.

[SingSing]

*Repair history. Toshibas were seldom seen either in the field or returns.
Also had a it looked at by a Tech with proper equiment and he said it required very little adjustment. Anyway blacks are black and whites are white and all in between are fine. Screen Hor. & Ver. are excellent.

You can say these about their CRT directview TVs or projection TVs, But Toshiba DLP TVs are dying like flies, because of the bulbs last much, much shorter than the expected hours. There is a long warranty wait for customers who just bought their DLP TVs with a dead bulbs within weeks.

[edDV]

There is a long discussion over in AVS forum about Toshiba CRT TV sets. One member over there claims that since 2000 or so, Toshiba has farmed out production of all CRT sets to southeast Asian third parties. Sets made before then had the traditional Toshiba quality.

[jhotmann]

when it comes to crt vs lcd computer monitors both have their own benefits. crts show lower resolution video better when you stretch it out compaired to lcd where if you watch a clip or something from the internet at a higher resolution it just looks terrible. but lcds are much better on the eyes after doing some work for a couple hours on the computer. as for tvs all i have are crts and havent seen much on other types of tvs so i dont have much to compaire.

[davideck]

A typical CRT HDTV will adjust itself to 480i, 480p, 720p (if supported) or 1080i as detected on the analog component or DVI/HDMI inputs.

These Toshibas are interesting exceptions. They advertise that they upconvert "all video signals to 1080iHD to create the sharpest, most realistic picture possible from every source", so they must not support variable scanning.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F9WFH2/sr=8-18/qid=1155602772/ref=sr_1_18/104-120...865532?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F0DC32/sr=8-2/qid=1155602608/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-120...865532?ie=UTF8

Toshiba's CrystalScan HDSC technology upconverts all video signals (including 480i/p) to 1080iHD, resulting in a significant reduction in jagged line artifacts to create the sharpest, most realistic picture possible from every source.

[ejai]

You might consider getting the HD service from cable, sattelite or over the air. The old recordings will still look better on the old TV.

I purchased the service when I bought the TV, but so far there is only about 15 channels that are HD.

[dvdguy4]

You might consider getting the HD service from cable, sattelite or over the air. The old recordings will still look better on the old TV.

I purchased the service when I bought the TV, but so far there is only about 15 channels that are HD.

Makes you wonder why there selling these tvs when they have a few HD chennels out right now. Im hoping more channels come out in the near future. Not exactly sure how many HD channels Cox has but we're considering going over to their HD service. Its only 10 bucks more than digital and comes with free dvr.

[edDV]

You might consider getting the HD service from cable, sattelite or over the air. The old recordings will still look better on the old TV.

I purchased the service when I bought the TV, but so far there is only about 15 channels that are HD.

Makes you wonder why there selling these tvs when they have a few HD chennels out right now. Im hoping more channels come out in the near future. Not exactly sure how many HD channels Cox has but we're considering going over to their HD service. Its only 10 bucks more than digital and comes with free dvr.

Depends on which DVR but that is a good deal. Comcast wants $5/mo for non-local HD programming (DiscoveryHD, InHD1&2, ESPNHD1&2, Local Sports and HD versions of HBO, Showtime etc. if purchased separately). You can get the locals without paying the $5/mo. Motorola 6412 DVR for Comcast adds $9.99/mo. over normal $5/mo. cable box fee.

Also a note in their favor, if you buy a progressive HDTV, the HD cable box will do a 480p conversion for SD channels that may or may not do a better deinterlace than your HDTV's signal processor. The cheaper you go on your HDTV, the better the cable box will look and visa versa. HD programs will look good. It's the SD programs that you need to worry about.

[impmon2]

I am going to be one of the old timer who wont let go of the CRT TV's. I was interested in a new TV for my bedroom and took my favorite test subject with me to Best Buy. None of the digital TV even with analog to digital converter and RF to AV converter could handle a nearly 30 year old Atari 2600. :/

Until they come out with TV that actually works properly with old devices, the TV in my bedroom for the older video games and C64 will still be CRT even if I have to go to a Goodwill for my next TV. :/ Most old video game systems can be made to have AV output though I dont think anyone's figured out Arcadia or the 1973 Magnavox Pong console (first cartridge based system) and I doubt Vectrex would ever work with any color CRT.

In the meanwhile... need to do something with my 12 year old Zennith TV that only displays vomit inducing CGA-esque colors (no green, had it tested and filament burned out)

The main TV in my living room is only a couple years old and wont be replaced for a while but eventually it will be replaced by a widescreen model when my local satellite provider offers a HDTV compatible reciever.

Quick question: can a run of the mill roof mounted antenna work with HDTV's for local HDTV stations? I have 2 that are within 50 miles and I'd rather not have to get on the roof to replace the antenna.

[edDV]

Quick question: can a run of the mill roof mounted antenna work with HDTV's for local HDTV stations? I have 2 that are within 50 miles and I'd rather not have to get on the roof to replace the antenna.

It all depends on your local situation. Start with this thread and follow the links.
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=305384&highlight=antenna

[Specialist]

When it comes to receiving ATSC local TV station digital channels here in Boise, I've been very happy with the following inexpensive ZENITH antenna:

http://tinyurl.com/qsnk2

I've tried many of the other antennas.

But the Zenith is both cheap and EFFECTIVE.

Our CBS station is on digital channel 2.1.

Our PBS station multicasts on 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5.

Our ABC station multicasts on 6.1 and 6.2.

Our NBC station multicasts on 7.1 and 7.2.

Our PARAMOUNT station is on digital channel 9.1.

Our FOX station is on 12.1.

So that's 12 digital channels.

With the Zenith antenna, all I have to do is position it so that there's line-of-sight between it (the antenna) and the mountain where the stations have their transmitters.

Once I position the antenna, I don't have to do anything else.

All of the channels are received in near DVD or DVD quality.

As I mentioned earlier, my widescreen TV doesn't display *high* definition as *high* definition, but instead displays HD as standard definition, but I should point out it's the best standard definition TV I've ever seen... especially the CBS, PBS, NBC, and ABC widescreen HD programming.

Much of that is truly as good as a Hollywood DVD... stunning.

The good news is that if one is not ready to shell out a lot of cash for a new HDTV, there are really good, inexpensive alternatives.

I'll upgrade eventually to high definition, but I plan to keep my standard definition CRTs.

I think it's wise to wait, for now.

Even POPULAR MECHANICS is running stories about how HDTV is still a technology in transition with a *LOT* of imperfections:

http://tinyurl.com/f5o58

As the article states:

"You laid down serious cash for your new set, upgraded your tuner box and hooked it all into your surround-sound system."

"Then you turned it on and tuned into a whole new era of disappointment."

"Those HD pictures don't look as good as they should."

"The image breaks up into little blocks."

"Fast-moving objects aren't crisp."

"And standard-definition TV programs look like garbage."

"Is it your TV?"

"Is it the fault of your cable or satellite company?"

"The truth is that it could be either, or both."

"HDTV is still an evolving technology and plenty of glitches make it onto the screen."

The good news is that the sets coming two years from now are going to be greatly improved over those being sold now.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[dvd3500]

My 32 inch widescreen CRT wins hands dwon against most LCDs and some plasmas. No dead pixels and I can watch it from any angle in the room. It weighs 75 lbs but it is multi standard (as an American living in Europe a must) and even the built-in speakers rule... (though I don't use them)

[NiteLite]

*Repair history. Toshibas were seldom seen either in the field or returns.
Also had a it looked at by a Tech with proper equiment and he said it required very little adjustment.
Anyway blacks are black and whites are white and all in between are fine. Screen Hor. & Ver. are excellent.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I recall seeing in reviews. (The ones that have some technical credibility.)

Most that have seen it are amazed at how good this analog with a single S-Video input looks so clean and defined and with depth.

Input Options: that is one area I find disappointing. It is true of many sets in this "twilight era" of the CRTs. My 27" AV-series JVC -- circa 1996 -- is that way. Using the single S-Video input disables all the other inputs, so it's an either/or proposition. And I have multiple sources feeding that tv, so I had to put in a pretty good switcher -- particularly if I wanted to use the S-Video for a better picture, and I did. Contrast that with my circa 1988 Proton monitor, which hardly compares picture-wise at this point, and which doesn't have S-Video, but it does have 3 (or maybe 4 ?) independent and completely separate inputs, with sound + video for each. Now that is a much better type of design, as far as I'm concerned, and it is something I would pay more for. I don't think you are going to see that anymore, though.

Just to clarify..."a single S-vid input" is all I have running to it now.
It has 4 inputs but my A/V receiver does video upconversion so no composite run is needed...hence, the single S-V input.
Sorry to hear that Toshiba is outsourcing if the AVS thread is accurate which I do not doubt as outscourcing is the new wave.
Am I the only one that feels that Sat/Cable companies charging extra for HD channels is a conflict since the Gov't has mandated this? Or should they be allowed to charge extra until the switch is made from the mandated date?
It's a real pisser to me and I cant find justification.
Reagrds,
NL