ImgBurn version 2 is out

[Tom Saurus]

I tried the program yesterday to burn some ISO's that Tmpgenc DVD Author 1.6 created. It completed the task quite efficiently and the new way of verifying seems superior to what DVD Decrypter is capable of. I won't use it to build an ISO, because I don't like how it creates both an ISO and MDS file. It should be able to make one ISO file like Tmpgenc DVD Author 1.6 does.

If I send him a donation, I will just have to drop a 2 dollar coin in the mail and take my chances he gets it. The cost of a money order is nearly 4 dollars.

[MOVIEGEEK]

...can I just drag & drop the VIDEO_TS folder into ImgBurn?

Yes, that's all you have to do.

See my post above or read the guide VegasBud posted.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I won't use it to build an ISO, because I don't like how it creates both an ISO and MDS file. It should be able to make one ISO file like Tmpgenc DVD Author 1.6 does.

You don't have to use the MDS file unless you are burning a DL disc,think of it as insurance.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

The MDS is also needed if you mount a small DVD image (< 1GB in DAEMON Tools) - otherwise it'll make it look like a CD.

Of course if you have a problem with it making MDS files, you could just turn the option off in the settings!

[suppafreak]

I have been burning DVDs for quite sometime and use either Verbatim or TY DVDs. Not sure why, but none of the discs that I have burned using ImgBurn worked for me. The discs would not play on any DVD player, yet the same images burned with NERO 6, worked like a charm on many DVD players. So thanks for the new version, but I am going to stay a way.

That happend a year ago and I did not save the logs. I used Nero since then.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It could have been something as simple as configuring your drive to perform bitsetting to DVDROM.

I guess we'll never know.

You made it sound as though the new version just didn't work for you though. If you've not tried it in a year and have no interest in doing so, it's a little unfair to pass comment like that.

[Tom Saurus]

MOVIEGEEK: Thank you for the information you provided, it was kind of you to take the time to do so.

LIGHTNING UK! Thank you for making such brilliant programs such as DVD Decrypter and ImgBurn. I will go into the settings, and make that adjustment. ImgBurn2 is a very useful tool. I think I will use it to make ISO Images; I like how you can see the progress of ImgBurn2 as it creates the ISO Image. Thank you once again.

[LT9000]

I have been burning DVDs for quite sometime and use either Verbatim or TY DVDs. Not sure why, but none of the discs that I have burned using ImgBurn worked for me. The discs would not play on any DVD player, yet the same images burned with NERO 6, worked like a charm on many DVD players. So thanks for the new version, but I am going to stay a way.

That happend a year ago and I did not save the logs. I used Nero since then.

Well I switched to imgburn from NERO for writing months ago, and all the discs play fine on my stand alone DVD player.

So far so good with imgburn 2 - straight from the video files to the burner.

It sounds like you had some unusual tech issue that might not have been imgburn's fault. I've not heard of anyone else saying this.

[Edmund Blackadder]

By the way, if you're referring to this thread, there might be further information in it since you last checked. There was actually a fly or two in the ointment with that technique.

VegasBud, which fly or two are you talking about. I thought that in that thread we came to a 100% solution to all DVD+R DL issues, whether OTP or PTP. With all my love to DVD Decrypter and ImgBurn (both of which I use regularly), I still think that Prassi/Sonic burning engine is the most reliable for burning VIDEO_TS folders. If your compilation is not in compliance - it will not even let you proceed to burning. And everything it burns works everywhere (and with all my clients' machines), unless it's a media issue. My wild guess is that Prassi/Sonic programs handle 32k gaps the way they should be handled.

By the way, is there any scientific way to check the order of files and if there are 32k gaps present on the burned DVD? And I don't mean going to Windows Explorer and seeing if there are any miniature VOB files larger than 32k between IFO and BUP files (besides, the DVDShrink output often lacks those small VOB files). Because the order that you see in Windows Explorer is not necessarily the order that the files might actually be recorded in. So how do we verify that they are indeed burned the right way? Is there some sector/file viewer that can verify that? Because simply believeing somebody's word (or the "32k gap" checkbox in a software) is not enough for me: I need a physical proof.

I usually author in DVDMaestro, so the output, whether VIDEO_TS compilation or IMG file, is always compliant. If it's VIDEO_TS - I burn it in RecordNow, if it's IMG file - I burn it in ImgBurn, because Maestro already laid down everything that ImgBurn needs to know. And, even if I don't create any menus, there are always little empty 32K+ VOB files (I think usually 154k) that ensure some space between IFO and BUP. It's the Shrink output that's uncertain.

And a question to LIGHTNING UK!: Is there any improvement in burning, or now building images, from Parallel Track Path (PTP) based materials? The last time I did a burn (ISO Read -> ISO Write), ImgBurn did not know where to put the layer break because there was no suitable cell present in the possible layer break area. And when I attempted to burn anyway, there was a permanent freeze at the center of DVD9 (at least on my older Pioneer DVD players which are following DVD specs to the letter in DVD9 department). The only solution, as described in my thread (the one with the flies in it ) was to use DVDReMake Pro to make a new cell and burn with RecordNow in Data Mode. So is there any improvement in this area with ImgBurn, perhaps with the new image building feature? Thanks.

[TooLFooL]

FABULOUS! imgtool is no longer needed. one less program to fiddle with. keep up the excellent work!

[VegasBud]

Ignore please. Accidental post.

[VegasBud]

VegasBud, which fly or two are you talking about.

Fly #1: Burning a dvd using data mode
The files on a dvd-video disk must be written in a specific sequence that data mode almost certainly won't achieve. It's a crap shoot at best. Ask anyone who has tried to use Folder2Iso to burn a dvd-video disk.

Fly #2: Lack of 32k gaps
In the other thread, I provided this link to NewCyberian.com (a wholesale dvd replicator/duplicator) about making a professional dvd suitable for use as a master. "Not enough space between IFOs and BUPs" is the first dvd authoring mistake listed. The solution the link recommends is using PgcEdit, following blutach's guide.

My wild guess is that Prassi/Sonic programs handle 32k gaps the way they should be handled.

Maybe your guess is correct, maybe not. I assumed, based on a post I read, that ImgTools Classic ensured 32k gaps. In reality, it doesn't, the post I read was wrong, and my assumption (based on that post) was wrong. The facts, as I've been able to determine by testing, is there are exactly two programs that properly handle a 32k gap, PgcEdit and the new version of ImgBurn.

By the way, is there any scientific way to check the order of files and if there are 32k gaps present on the burned DVD?

While you're probably right that a disk sector reading program would work to determine the order, it's sounds painful and laborious. A real world test is good enough for me. A dvd wouldn't work if the files are out of sequence. If the dvd works correctly, the sequence is correct.

Because simply believeing somebody's word (or the "32k gap" checkbox in a software) is not enough for me: I need a physical proof.

Then we both agree that there's no substitute for verifying it yourself. I've already verified to myself that PgcEdit and the new version of ImgBurn do it correctly, but if you want to verify it yourself, I can tell you the method I use, and you can run your own tests.

The method is based on a r0lZ post on tests that he ran. To make a test set of dvd files to work with, just create a series of titlesets, each with one title which is comprised of just one still frame. I don't see any benefit to actually burning it to disk and using a disk sector reader, but if you feel the need, by all means go ahead. For my tests, I just create an ISO, which is a representation of the disk layout. Use a hex editor to locate all occurences of the phrases "DVDVIDEO-VMG" (which is the beginning of the VIDEO_TS IFO and BUP files), and "DVDVIDEO-VTS" (which is the beginning of the VTS IFO and BUP files). Since the sequence of files is IFO - VOB - BUP, a simple subtraction of the hex addresses will give you the number of bytes between the beginning of an IFO and its' BUP, with the VOB in between. If the number you get is less than 32k, there aren't 32k gaps.

As to your questions about PTP and OTP, I don't really understand the questions. The only burnable dvd's use OTP. The DVD-R DL specification lists PTP as available, but I've never heard of a single person creating a useable disk using it. Actually, I've not seen DVD-R DL referenced in the same sentence as the words "reliable" or "consistent", even when using OTP. To all of us, here, OTP is all there is. If you mean the source disk was recorded using PTP, then the layer break is incorrect for OTP, and must be reset, in the standard way, with no special treatment needed.

ImgBurn did not know where to put the layer break because there was no suitable cell present in the possible layer break area.

That's not a problem with ImgBurn, it's a problem with the authoring, and only occurs if one cell spans the entire useable area for a proper layer break. ImgBurn is a burning tool, not a dvd-authoring-repair tool.

The only solution, as described in my thread (the one with the flies in it) was to use DVDReMake Pro to make a new cell and burn with RecordNow in Data Mode.

That technique didn't work so well for DVWannaB in that thread. A free, simple, flexible, and reliable way to split a gigantic cell that's interfering with setting the layer break is to use the "Split Cell" function in VobBlanker, which was specifically designed to do the task.

All that being said, everyone should use what works for them, and what they're comfortable with. The only reason I promote a certain way of doing things is that it has worked reliably, and as easily as possible, for many people. The method came at the cost of literally stacks of dual layer coasters. It enables people with little experience to successfully burn a dual layer dvd right out of the box, without the expensive coasters. As an added benefit, all the software used is free, or what you feel like donating.

NOTICE: The author of this post assumes no liability for any eye problems which may be caused by reading so much electronic print. It is solely the reader's responsibility to determine their individual capability to scan this document.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Fly #1: Burning a dvd using data mode
The files on a dvd-video disk must be written in a specific sequence that data mode almost certainly won't achieve. It's a crap shoot at best. Ask anyone who has tried to use Folder2Iso to burn a dvd-video disk.

Yes, but that's the beauty of the Prassi/Sonic engine - it is very DVD-Video conscious when burning VIDEO_TS folders. As I already said, it's very picky to the compilation, and won't burn unless it's fully compliant. It puts all the files in the correct, compliant order (even when adding DVD-ROM content, which I do most of the times). In my 5 years of DVD burning I've yet to discover a DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD+R DL that was burned in Data Mode with Prassi/Sonic engine that would refuse to play or go bad over time on scratched discs because of the lack of 32k gaps. Which means that with the combination of DVDMaestro output, file order and most likely the respect to 32k gaps, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Data Mode when using Prassi/Sonic engine. So, while your theory might be correct for other programs, it's not the case with Prassi/Sonic.

Fly #2: Lack of 32k gaps
In the other thread, I provided this link to NewCyberian.com (a wholesale dvd replicator/duplicator) about making a professional dvd suitable for use as a master. "Not enough space between IFOs and BUPs" is the first dvd authoring mistake listed. The solution the link recommends is using PgcEdit, following blutach's guide.

Well, since it's an authoring mistake, then I have nothing to worry about, because DVDMaestro outputs big enough empty VOB files (when there's no menus) between IFO and BUP, and RecordNow burns them in the correct order. So, naturally, there are way-over-32k gaps on my DVD's. And if I decide to do IMG file output from Maestro, the same happens when burning the image with ImgBurn.

Maybe your guess is correct, maybe not. I assumed, based on a post I read, that ImgTools Classic ensured 32k gaps. In reality, it doesn't, the post I read was wrong, and my assumption (based on that post) was wrong. The facts, as I've been able to determine by testing, is there are exactly two programs that properly handle a 32k gap, PgcEdit and the new version of ImgBurn.

But see that's the difference. All the free tools authors can only make an educated guess at what's right and what's not, and so the people who use them and analize their output. On the other hand, Sonic does develop industry standard DVD authoring software, and I absolutely don't see how their burning engine would be of any lesser compliance. The consistency of my output and no returns from my customers means that I'm probably correct in this assumption.

While you're probably right that a disk sector reading program would work to determine the order, it's sounds painful and laborious. A real world test is good enough for me. A dvd wouldn't work if the files are out of sequence. If the dvd works correctly, the sequence is correct.

Same here, if I my authoring software (DVDMaestro) generates 32k+ VOB files, and Prassi/Sonic engine burns the DVD's in Data Mode that are playable - I have nothing to worry about :P .

As to your questions about PTP and OTP, I don't really understand the questions. The only burnable dvd's use OTP. The DVD-R DL specification lists PTP as available, but I've never heard of a single person creating a useable disk using it. Actually, I've not seen DVD-R DL referenced in the same sentence as the words "reliable" or "consistent", even when using OTP. To all of us, here, OTP is all there is. If you mean the source disk was recorded using PTP, then the layer break is incorrect for OTP, and must be reset, in the standard way, with no special treatment needed.

Sorry for not being clear. Yes, I meant copying the PTP content. As of now, it's virtually impossible to make a 100% workable PTP->OTP backup, unless you split one of the large cells in the middle section of DVD9. Reading into ISO with DVD Decrypter and writing it with ImgBurn (the preferred backup method of many) would always lead to a messed up layer break. So, while it is technically an authoring issue (because of a different tracking format), I was just asking if anything has been done about it in the new version of ImgBurn. After all, it can accept VIDEO_TS folders now, so while at it I thought perhaps it did something about properly preparing the PTP-based source material.

My larger scale point is that, while most people say that ISO Read -> ISO Write with DVD Decrypter/ImgBurn is a 100% compatible way to make DVD9 backups - it really is only for OTP DVD's. There are still considerable amounts of PTP DVD's made and I seem to be the only one raising the issue that ISO Read -> ISO Write is not the solution for for their backup. There are still many DVD players that do care about the layer break and they will most certainly not like this type of a backup. I'm just raising the awareness about this issue, though it seems to largely go unnoticed. Anyway, I will try your suggestion of VobBlanker the next time I come across of a need to backup a PTP disc. We'll see how it handles splitting cells while still retaining the compatibility of a DVD9.

[VegasBud]

Edmund Blackadder,

I would be happy to discuss these matters with you, but the discussion is starting to take over this thread, which I originally started to ensure as many people as possible were aware of the release of the new version of ImgBurn, provide an area where people could learn about the new features, get any questions they have answered, and generally celebrate both the availability of such a fine tool, and the unselfish, dedicated work by its' author, LIGHTNING UK!.

Since much of our discussion doesn't really concern ImgBurn v2, I would appreciate it if we could swing the non-ImgBurn part of this discussion over into the other thread. If you'll just copy your last post from this thread, and paste it into the other thread, I'll be happy to continue the discussion with you. I thank you for your understanding.

Extracting the parts that do pertain to ImgBurn:

As of now, it's virtually impossible to make a 100% workable PTP->OTP backup, unless you split one of the large cells in the middle section of DVD9. Reading into ISO with DVD Decrypter and writing it with ImgBurn (the preferred backup method of many) would always lead to a messed up layer break.

DvdDecrypter doesn't change the original layer break, which (coming from a PTP) would be wrong for writing to OTP, anyways. If ImgBurn v1 couldn't locate a suitable layer break, it was because there was no cell start in the useable layer break area. The solution is to split the cell. Neither ImgBurn v1 or v2 does cell splitting, nor should they, because it has nothing to do with burning. Using VobBlanker, and splitting the cell would have eliminated the problem, which, once again, has nothing to do with ImgBurn.

...while most people say that ISO Read -> ISO Write with DVD Decrypter/ImgBurn is a 100% compatible way to make DVD9 backups - it really is only for OTP DVD's.

Whether the source disk is OTP or PTP makes no difference. Either way, you end up with dvd files on your hard drive. With ImgBurn v2, in particular, when you are about to burn those files, it pops up a window to help you select where to put the layer break, with a very nice user interface that even helps you choose the best position to use. If there isn't a useable layer break, we're back to using VobBlanker to fix the non-ImgBurn related problem. With a useable layer break now available in ImgBurn, you can proceed with the burn, and there should be no problems with the finished disk.

[somebodeez]

What is " OTP" and "PTP" ?

[VegasBud]

OTP stands for Opposite Track Path. It means that the dvd content starts at the inner hub, progesses to the outer edge, changes layers, and continues on from the outer edge back to the inner hub.

PTP stands for Parallel Track Path. It means that the dvd content starts at the inner hub, progresses to the outer edge, changes layers, goes back to the hub, and continues on from the hub to the outer edge again.

[somebodeez]

AhHa! Ok, thank you

[VideoTechMan]

PTP is mainly referred to on DVD based video games like GTA 4 for the PS2. THe game is on a DVD9 and was pressed using PTP. Backup would be an issue with these discs because you can't easily backup a PTP disc to write to a blank as OTP.

With regular DVD movies, they are usually pressed as OTP.

[VegasBud]

VideoTechMan,

I don't have any experience backing up video games, but in dvd-video, PTP is no different from OTP if you reset the layer break before burning, which DvdDecrypter, and both versions of ImgBurn can do.

I spot checked some of my originals, and you're right that they're usually OTP, but I found several that were PTP.

[joshua_98]

Ok, I may have missed something here, so take it easy on me. Somebody else already stated that they don't need iso's anymore with this new version. Does this mean that this version can "decrypt" the files from a disc and then burn the files as well?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Ok, I may have missed something here, so take it easy on me. Somebody else already stated that they don't need iso's anymore with this new version. Does this mean that this version can "decrypt" the files from a disc and then burn the files as well?

No,it will only burn.You still need DVDDecrypter,etc to rip.

[joshua_98]

Thanks MovieGeek, I just interpreted this wrong, and I am still at work so I haven't been able to try the new version yet.

[joi]

I have been using the imgburn 2 instead of decryptor. What i don't understand is after adding the video_ts folder (I am not sure if I am just to supposed to jump the whole folder), I run calculate and in test mode - the DVD-R burns just fine. But when i use a DVD+R it says I don't have enough room. I read the difference between the two types of DVDs but i don't see much of a difference. Why is my imgburn saying that i can burn successful on a DVD-R (when it isn't recommended on a page i found on the official IMGBurn web page) and my DVD+R won't The exact same fiile was used. Says not enough room. I burned it anyway to see what would happen. I popped my DVD in and it seems to be working on the DVD+R disc. Even though i got that funky message..I can't believe i didn't right it down.

PM me if anyone has a clue to help me out. Thanks.

I went ahead and created an ISO to see if it will work.

[Coopervid]

There is a 6MB difference in capacity. Maybe your files exceed the +R capacity.

DVD-R/DVD-RW = 4 706 074 624 bytes ( 4488 MB )
DVD+R/DVD+RW = 4 700 372 992 bytes ( 4482 MB )

[goon7]

hoho ,cool