Is it Video Studio, the OS, or the File Size or what?

[jmsrickland]

Operating System: Windows 2000 Pro SP4
Hard Drive: 200GB NTFS
Partition 1: 10GB OS
Partition 2: 190GB Data
Running Application: Video Studio 10+

I am encountering a very severe problem while using VS to perform a task.

What I am not sure of is exactly what is causing the problem or why and what to do about it.

I am running VS to capture a 2 hour video from a TV Tuner source.

The output captured video is written to the second partition as an AVI file. Everything is running smoothly as VS captures the video and writes it out. The total size of the finished video file is 32GB. After the video has come to an end I click on 'Stop Capture' icon.

Immediately after clicking on the Stop Capture icon or any button as far as that matters I get a message from the OS telling me that the system is shutting down due to an unrecoverable fatal error. The system shuts down the computer and attempts to do a restart. But the system won't boot. Only a black screen with a white cursor in the upper left corner is visible. No user input is accepted. The system is dead.

I put a System Analysis CD in the CD-ROM reader and reboot from the CD-ROM drive.
I run a utility from the CD to show me the hard drive information. The utility program tells me that partition 1, where the OS is, has an unrecognizable format and cannot be accessed. The second partition, where VS saved the AVI file is completely gone. It is considered to be un-partitioned space.

OK, I reformat the hard drive exactly as I had it before and re-install the OS. I boot up the OS and re-install Video Studio and the drivers for the TV Tuner adapter. I start a new VS project and begin the video capture all over again. Exactly the same thing happens again.

I have done this four times and each time the same problem occurs.

OK, now I install two hard drives. Format the first HD as the master with a 10GB partition for the OS and 190GB for data. I format the second HD as a slave and make four partitions of 50GB each. I re-install the OS and reboot. Again I reinstall VS and the drivers. I start a new VS project and this time I tell VS to save the AVI file on the 4th partition of the second hard drive.

After VS has finished with the 2 hour video I again click on the 'Stop Capture' icon and close VS after saving the project. Everything looks OK so far. The AVI video file is 32GB just like the first four times. It plays perfectly through an AVI player program.

Nothing seems to be wrong.

I shut down the computer and reboot. When the system comes back up I see that partition 1 of the second hard drive is unaccesable. I also see that the fouth partition does not show up in the Windows explorer.

I reboot again from the CD-ROM to start up the disk utility programs. When I do a hard drive information on the second HD it tells me that partition 1 has an unrecognizable format and cannot be accessed. The fourth partition, where VS saved the AVI file is completely gone. It is considered to be un-partitioned space.

I used another application to capture the 2 hour video from the TV Tuner adapter but this program always saved the output as eight 4GB files instead of one 32GB file as VS does. There was no problem using this program.

It appears that every time I run VS to create a 32GB AVI video file and whatever disk I use to save it the first partition of that disk becomes unaccesable because of an unrecognizable format and the partition where the file was saved dissapears.

It isn't that I cannot just use the other program to get my AVI files but that doesn't help me resolve this issue and there are times I need to use VS to do the capturing.

I don't know if this is a problem being caused by Video Studio or is it my OS or could it be due to the 32GB file being written. The only other files that I have created using VS were always in the 4GB size and I could create many of them without ever having any problems with the system and/or hard drives.

[lenti_75]

try to use VS 9 or 8, see if it does the same.

10 is pretty new, this might be a bug.

[Nelson37]

That is one HELL of a bug.

VS apparently makes temp files on the boot partition, your 10 gb partition may not be large enough to hold this file. However, 2nd hard drive test seems to indicate it is hosing the target partition, as well as 1st partition on the second drive, not the boot drive.

I would compose a really nasty letter to Ulead, mentioning publisizing this issue on this forum, and ask if they have any programs that work without blowing away your entire hard drive. You have nothing to lose, and they might send you one of their better packages. This often works.

[jmsrickland]

Before I would do that I would have to be 100% certain that it is Video Studio causing the problem. Is there any possibility that my OS just can't handle 32GB files? It says that the size of the partitions are 190GB and 50GB respectively but maybe the OS is giving me false information about the sizes of the partitions. Seems far fetched though.

"VS apparently makes temp files on the boot partition"

I might suspect that when I created the first four because those were all done on the master drive in the 2nd partition. But when I did it on a second hard drive, that drive was not bootable and it was a data only drive. But still, the first partition of any drive seems to be ruined. When it was on the boot drive that is how I lost my OS but when it was done on the slave drive I didn't lose my OS but I did lose access to the first partition of the slave drive but in all cases the partition in which the file was saved always disappeared.

I need to run another program, even if I have to make on myself in Visual C or VB, and write out a 32GB file and see what happens.

[Nelson37]

I use the same OS, it will certainly handle 32 Gb files and much larger. The disappearing partitions are a very unusual symptom.

No real need to test with files that large. Just move some files around, reboot, repeat several times. The fact that it has happened on two seperate drives eliminates HD hardware. Possible a bad controller or a virus could cause this, but that would be extremely rare.

Bad voltage on a power supply is another possibility. But your last couple of tests finished normally, no problems until the reboot.

Check for existence of the finished AVI and the temp file on the first partition before the reboot. Are you sure all partitions are NTFS, and the first partition on the 2nd drive is over 32BG, free space?

On the first tests with the 10gb boot partition I would guess it wrote too large a file, but the tests with the second drive indicate otherwise.

[jmsrickland]

No real need to test with files that large. Just move some files around, reboot, repeat several times. The fact that it has happened on two seperate drives eliminates HD hardware. Possible a bad controller or a virus could cause this, but that would be extremely rare.

You're probably correct about no need to test with large file outputs from other apps but I was just curious to see what the results would be.

A virus is more than likely out of the question. This PC has not been on the Internet. Also, the re-formatting would eliminate any signs of a virus.

I can move the 32GB file to other partitions.

When the file was saved on the same HD as the OS I lost access to the OS immediately after VS finished the file.

When the file was saved on the forth partition of the second HD everything worked normally. I could copy the file around to other partitions with no problems. I could run other programs. Make more files on the same partitions. In other words, BAU.

No problems existed until I re-booted. Then not only was the first partition on the second HD inaccesable and the forth partition gone, the OS works exteremly slow. Going from one folder to another takes forever. Windows Explorer takes a very long time to switch from partition to partition, folder to folder, and file to file.

Check for existence of the finished AVI and the temp file on the first partition before the reboot.

No temp files were written to any partition at any time. When you capture live video data from a TV Tuner and record that to a pre-selected folder VS didn't create any temps. I checked durning and after the capturing.

Are you sure all partitions are NTFS, and the first partition on the 2nd drive is over 32BG, free space?

Absolutely. All partitions are NTFS. The first partition on the second is (or it was) approx 50GB.

On the first tests with the 10gb boot partition I would guess it wrote too large a file, but the tests with the second drive indicate otherwise.

I checked. No temp files were written. Just the AVI. Before I started the project I made sure that the working directory and the preview directory were not on the same partition as the OS. In other words, not the default path. Also, during and after the capturing I checked the working and preview directories that I directed VS to use and they were always empty.

[Nelson37]

The temp file issue came up on another thread, this was when rendering a project, not capturing, but it did make a temp file on the boot drive, even with the temp and working directories specified otherwise. But it does look like that is not currently the issue.

Interesting about the OS slowing down afterwards. Check the windows Temp directory and empty it, also Recycle bin. Also delete and re-create the virtual memory paging file, this may be corrupt. Increasing the size might help, also.

Does the slowdown continue after physically disconnecting the 2nd HD and after a reboot? Is the pagefile located on the second drive?

Try some very small captures as a test. Gradually increase the size and repeat when the limit is found. If it is right at 4 Gb that would provide some useful info.

I would do a complete and thorough virus and spyware scan, if nothing else because Ulead will request that info and it is just one more possibility to eliminate. There has been at least one case of a shrink-wrapped, commercial CD being released with a Virus on it.

[jmsrickland]

The temp file issue came up on another thread, this was when rendering a project, not capturing, but it did make a temp file on the boot drive, even with the temp and working directories specified otherwise. But it does look like that is not currently the issue.

During rendering, not capturing, I have directed VS to use my own pre-selected directories for the working directory, the preview directory, and the output for the DVD files. VS has always used the ones that I selected and has never written anything to the boot drive under these circumstances.

During capturing VS saves the captured file in the directory that I pre-selected. No temp files are written anywhere.

Interesting about the OS slowing down afterwards. Check the windows Temp directory and empty it, also Recycle bin. Also delete and re-create the virtual memory paging file, this may be corrupt. Increasing the size might help, also.

Never thought about that. Will do that on my next test.

Does the slowdown continue after physically disconnecting the 2nd HD and after a reboot? Is the pagefile located on the second drive?

As long as the second hard drive remains connected the system is as slow as a snail, almost impossible to do any navigation through the directories. However, applications run normally unless the application prompts you to select a directory.

If I physically remove the second drive and upon re-boot the system appears to run normally in all respects.

The pagefile is not on the second drive, it is on the system boot drive.

Try some very small captures as a test. Gradually increase the size and repeat when the limit is found. If it is right at 4 Gb that would provide some useful info.

I am in the process of doing that now. I already used another application and captured over four hours of TV and it created a 70GB AVI file. There was absolutely no problems. This file was created in the second partition of the boot drive (ie "D").

I ran VS again and had it capture one hour of TV (1/2 of what I did the other day when I had the problems) and it created a 16GB AVI file. No problems were encountered. So, that eliminates the 4GB possibility as you mentioned.

I plan on doing more tests and increasing the capture time and file size until I either blow the system or exceed the 32GB file size (if that becomes possible).

I would do a complete and thorough virus and spyware scan, if nothing else because Ulead will request that info and it is just one more possibility to eliminate. There has been at least one case of a shrink-wrapped, commercial CD being released with a Virus on it.

OK. I will do that but I really think that it is not a virus.

[jmsrickland]

Oh, one more thing to note. I mounted a clean boot drive (one that I just completely reformatted and installed W2K). This system did not have anything installed on it other than what was installed from the W2K installation CD. I booted with it while the second drive was still mounted. After booting up the new system ran extermely sluggish just like the other one did. I shut down the PC, removed the second drive and rebooted. The system ran normal.

[Nelson37]

We may have a BINGO!!! here. Clean Windows install, dramatic measurable change related solely and completely to connection of second drive, no other factors involved.

Isolate and Identify, say it with me.

How is the second drive connected? Is it master/slaved to the boot drive on the same cable, and is the configuration for the boot drive the same for Master and Single, meaning the jumper does not need to be changed? Check this for both original boot drive and recent test replacement.

Does the slowdown occur when the second drive is NOT partitioned, or does it occur with prepared, formatted partitions on the second drive?

Can you test the same scenario with the second drive on a seperate cable from the main OS drive? Temporarily disconnect the CD if necessary.

There may be a major incompatibility between the two drives that is severe enough to cause the partition erasure or corruption during extended writes. This issue is only present when the drives are on the same cable. This is rare, but it absolutely does happen.

Now if they are on different cables, and always have been, I would start to suspect the secondary IDE controller, unfortunately there is no easy way to test this outside of a different motherboard, or buying an essentially worthless add-in IDE controller.

[Nelson37]

There also may be an issue with the Power Supply, could be it is overloaded with the second drive. If you have another one handy, that is well worth a shot.

Flaky or insufficient power is the cause of many strange problems, power supply relatively inexpensive and easy to change. It is also possible to leave in the original power supply and power the second drive from another PC, they have to be real close together but this makes for an easy test. Obviously leave the data cables in place but just snake over the power lead from the other PC.

There is Something flakey about that second drive, or its data and/or power connection to the PC, or its interaction with the boot drive. The problem is in here somewhere.

I would like also to commend you on your diagnostic and troubleshooting procedure, most people do not take the step-by-step approach with details on what occurred at each stage. Although you DID almost leave out the detail about the new test OS drive, naughty, naughty.

Isolate and Identify, say it with me.

[jmsrickland]

I will perform all those tests but it will take some time.

Also, keep in mind that I have already run VS from the boot drive and captured the two hour TV and the 32GB file was written on the second partition of the primary drive. The second hard drive played no part in this at all. This was when I completely lost my OS with an unrecoverable error message from the system saying it was shutting down.

The master drive and the slave drive are on the same cable. The drives are configured as Master/Slave and each drive has it's jumper set accordinly. In other words, I do not or ever have used the Cable Select configuration. The primary drive has it jumper in the master connection. The slave drive has no jumper (meaning slave). Both hard drives are the same make and model; Seagate Barracuda 200GB Ultra ATA/100 .

[jmsrickland]

Here's two more tests I did.

Test #1:

1) Reformatted hard drive into two partitions. First partition 40GB, second partition 160GB.

2) Re-installed W2K on first partition.

3) Booted up - No secondary drive installed, primary only

4) Re-installed Video Studio 10 + capture adapter drivers

5) Ran VS and captured a two hour movie from TV. Capture file written on the second partition.

6) At end of two hour capturing VS created a 32GB AVI file on the second partition. During the capturing process I would look at the folder where the AVI file is to be written. It always showed a size of 0 (zero) even when I did a refresh. Question: Where then is VS storing the captured data since the file size remains at 0 through the entire capture? Only after I click on 'Stop Capture' is there a file size.

7) As soon as I closed VS I got the following message:

Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library

Runtime Error

Program...ram Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 10\vstudio.dat

Abnormal Program Termination

8) When I clicked on the OK button of the error message box the system went black and froze.

9) Rebooted. Either no system or system won't boot

10) Turned off PC. Dismounted drive and made it a slave drive

11) Mounted another primary drive with new copy of W2K.

12) Upon rebooting the following occured:

A black window with white text (no line breaks between message lines) scrolling at a very fast pace - too fast to read. After about 15 minutes of this the text lines straightend out (one line of text message at a time) scrolled for another 10 minutes or so. I could read the lines which had the following text: Replacing invalid security id with default security id for file nnnnn. where nnnnn is a number from 1000 up to the 20000 range.

13) After the scrolling messages completed the system came up normal. I looked at the first partition of the slave drive and could see the old W2K system still there. I looked at the second partition and saw that the 32GB AVI file was also still there. The file was accesable.

14) Shut down PC, removed second drive and rebooted. System did not boot up. Shut down PC, dismounted primary drive and re-mounted old drive (jumpered it to make master) and rebooted. System did not boot up.

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Test #2:

1) Reformatted both hard drives. One drive formatted with two partitions; 40GB and 160GB. Other drive formatted with only one 200GB partition.

2) Re-installed W2K on first partition of first drive.

3) Rebooted

4) W2K boots up and I reinstalled VS + capture drivers again.

5) Captured another two hour TV show and saved AVI file on the first and only partition of the second drive.

6) After about 1 hour and 45 minutes the system blacked out completely. Could not reboot.

7) Inspected both hard drives. Drive 1 still showed the OS as being there in the first partition. Drive 2 showed the AVI file but as 0 bytes.

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From above and a previous test I see that the problem begins with a file greater than 16GB (a previous test showed that one hour of capturing created a 16GB file in which I had no problems whatsoever) and probably somewhere in the 28GB and above. Looks like approx 4GB of data for every 15 minutes of capturing.

Too bad I can't get Video Studio to output several 4GB files instead of one super large file.