.mov @ higher bitrate on iPod Video !?

[GMaq]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone doing .mov/MPEG-4 movies for their iPod has noticed that the bitrate constraints for MPEG-4 listed on the Apple website do not seem to apply if your MPEG-4 movie is in a .mov container. For example I converted a satellite capture from MPEG-2 to .mov using MPEG Streamclip. The Video (512x384) was done with the 3ivx codec set to CQ 95% and the Audio was 128kbps AAC. When I open the converted clip in iTunes and click "Get Info" it displays the file bitrate to be 5266 kbps, which is more than double than the official Apple spec of 2500 kbps. It plays perfectly on my iPod and looks phenomenal through the TV Out. I am quite aware that this is an excessive bitrate for iPod movies, however for short stuff or very important videos like home movies etc. it's interesting to know that you can get this kind of quality. I have yet to experiment with the frame resolutions and Audio bitrates but I will try it and post if there is any interest. BTW my iPod video is running v 1.0 firware.

[Baldrick]

it may report the bitrate wrong. you can calculate it manually...what is the file size and runtime for the clip?

[GMaq]

Baldrick,
Firstly kudos to yourself and the Mods for a truly useful and informative site. The clip in question is 186.65 Megabytes in size and 4:47 minutes in length, I was slightly mistaken in the first post, the reported bitrate is actually 5.42 mbits/sec when I pull up the file info in Quicktime and when viewed in iTunes it says "Total Bitrate 5438 kbps". All my other video files display the bitrate accurately in iTunes and are far smaller file sizes at approximately the same length (most of them are encoded at 1000 kbps with Nero Digital)

[teegee420]

As you stated, the constraints only seem to apply to H.264 video in a mp4 container. As long as you use MPEG-4 and a mov container you're fine.

[GMaq]

Hmmm, So could it be possible that a .mov container file could be played back on iPod with other Codecs and/or resolutions?? Has anyone tried this?? And teegee420 the H.264 limits are even more constrained than plain ole MPEG-4, So perhaps unconstrained H.264 in a .mov container is also possible which is what a lot of iPod owners would like to see anyway. IMHO H.264 320x240 @ 700kbps is almost unwatchable on a regular CRT TV let alone an LCD or Plasma. I'll try some test clips with various codecs etc.

[teegee420]

Yes it's possible to put H.264 in a .mov container, but that shouldn't change anything. It's only with MPEG-4 that the limitations are broken.

[deltaboy]

The Video (512x384) was done with the 3ivx codec set to CQ 95% and the Audio was 128kbps AAC.

nice work GMaq! ive been successful doing the same thing, however, how do you get you resolution to 512? you must be on a mac. i only have 640, then 480... and i cant make custom resolutions. im getting nice results running a 2-pass with 3000 bitrate.

i wish i had more tweaking ability.

[GMaq]

deltaboy,
I am encoding my ipod movies using MPEG Streamclip on a PC Laptop and if you go to the "Export to Quicktime" menu you will see that there are a list of frame sizes all the way from 320x240 and up, at the bottom of the frame sizes is one called "Other" if you select it you should be able to change it to 512x384 for 4:3 or 624x352 for 16:9, I have saved several templates to account for different sources etc. Although 3ivx is a very good Codec, I find it works with some sources better than others, I wish I could access XVid, and Divx through MPEG Streamclip, However 2 pass @ 3000kbps must look fantastic!

[deltaboy]

my drop down in "other" goes (vertical):

768, 720, 640, 480, 384, 352, 320, 176

i have no option for 512. like i said, you must be using the mac version. im using v1.0.1 for windows.

and now im having troubles with itunes accepting my videos over 480x480. grrr...

[GMaq]

deltaboy,
Sorry I was editing my post as you replied, I am using the same version as you on a PC. When you enter your new resolution in "other" don't use the vertical dropdowns just doubleclick on the number until it highlights and enter in your resolution manually.

[deltaboy]

oh man... i AM an idiot! somebody, please flame me, hahahahha. thx GMaq, i have it working like a champ now and i can also lower my bitrate to 2500 to save some space.

ive been using premiere elements to trim up my vid, then i export to dv avi so the encoder will be nice and sweet - no sync issues.

[deltaboy]

GMaq,

how are you transfering your DVDs to 3ivx (iPod) using MPEG Streamclip? when i import the vob, i can only encode if i choose clips of about up to 75% the entire movie. end to end i get errors.

im stumped...

[GMaq]

deltaboy,
I use MPEG Streamclip primarily for converting Satellite captures in MPEG-2 to 3ivx, I find MPEG Streamclip is a little weird with DVD files, especially if they are larger than 4 Gb?? It also doesn't seem to like most .avi files with mp3 sound, Since it runs on top of Quicktime it has a lot of the same quirks, even with the MPEG-2 plug-in, So in my experience it works great for Satellite captures and converting VCD's to 3ivx, For DVD's I use Nero Recode, I use the "Standard" template and check off "Quickime compatibility" using 2-pass and the same frame sizes I use in MPEG Streamclip, With bitrates of 1.25kbps or more, Nero Recode does a great job with DVD sources, It's quick and easy and will import the chapters with your DVD files, BTW I use DVDFab Decrypter for ripping. Sometimes I will use Virtualdub MPEG-2 with XVid or DivX, for DVD's but it's a lot of extra steps and demuxing and remuxing, usually the quality is no better than Recode.

[deltaboy]

cool, thx for the info!

im gonna try to toy around wth frameserving (VirtualDub MPEG2, DVD2AVI, AVISynth). hope it works! its hard to ignore the power of 3ivx.

[GMaq]

deltaboy,
The MPEG-4 tools that come with the 3ivx codec pack are also quite useful if you use them with Graphedit, there are guides for this at 3ivx.com, I use the audio converter all the time since VirtualDub won't do the MPEG-4 container thing. I use VirtualDub for the video which allows more codec choices, Do the audio with the 3ivx toolkit in Graphedit and mux it into a .mp4 container with YAMB. Also 3ivx does the best realtime capture of any MPEG-4 Codec using the capture utility in Virtualdub. Anyway just a few more points to ponder like there aren't already enough ways to do MPEG-4 video!