Maestro Subbing Nightmare

[Adora2420]

I've been working on authoring a dvd in Maestro with 12 songs, 10 subtitle tracks, 2 audio tracks and 3 menus. At first I came across the problem of the subs slowly going out of synch (working with an ntsc 29.97 video, and subs created in subtitle workshop). I couldn't find a working solution for this problem, so I decided to make each song its own track to avoid the problem. This was enough to keep the subtitles in synch, but has created a new problem for me. Now I have a pause between each song. I really want to avoid this, and I also really want my original Maestro created menus to remain fully functional.

I have no idea what the best way for me to proceed is now. I have been trying to work with the uncut video again lately but it seems to me the only way I can fix the time is to adjust the timing song by song with Maestro's real preview. For some reason the tracks don't desynch at even intervals, so it seems like it has to be a frame rate problem as the subs get slowly left behind. If I try and adjust the whole thing forward, the timing eventually goes off in the opposite direction making it so I have no choice but to retime it song by song/line by line using the real preview editor. I'm working with very long multilanguage sub files, so this isn't terribly desireable. (Its close to 10,000 lines )

The only other choice I see I have is to forget the menus and mux the maestro made vobs in another program. I put a lot of work into the menus however and haven't seen another program with a setup that would allow me to recreate it to my satisfaction. Is there any hope for my dvd?

Does anyone know of a way to synch subs properly in Maestro? They are perfectly synched in subtitle workshop and the framerate appears to be set right in both programs to me, but I feel I have to be missing something/doing something wrong. I've tried creating a pulldown "drop frame true" file as I saw suggested, but the problem remains.
Is there a way to convert "titles" to chapters, yet keep my menus and subtitles (pointing to the new chapters instead of old titles)??

I'd really appreciate any advice~ I know this seems to be a common problem, but I am starting to fear there is no solution besides starting over.

Thank you for reading~ ^^

[BJ_M]

titles can be converted to chapters by combing the ac3 files togehter of each title (maestro comes with a program to do this) , then dropping all on the same time line - maestro also has a trim feature - so you can add a gop or two of blank between each chapter (add the same of blank ac3) - this will help when you redo your connections from each titles to each chapter instead ....


the going out of sync issue sounds like drop frame vs. non drop frame or not using exactly a 29.97 file (it is not exactly 29.97 anyway - though some nle round it this way and some dont causing errors) ..

check to see if your file is drop frame or non drop frame and match that settings (nothing to do with pulldown - though a film source with pulldown would be non drop) and a video tape source would most often be drop frame (though not always)

[Adora2420]

check to see if your file is drop frame or non drop frame and match that settings (nothing to do with pulldown - though a film source with pulldown would be non drop) and a video tape source would most often be drop frame (though not always)

Thank you for replying so quickly~! ^^ Can you be any more specific? I have felt this is the problem from tidbits I've read online, but I'm not certian how I can go about checking if it's drop frame or what to do to fix the problem once I know. Can I make Maestro work with non drop frame files, or will it only work with drop frame files? I have managed to successfully merge the titles in Maestro before, but the synching issue is a bit confusing. I'm willing to do almost anything to fix it though. Thank you for considering my problem~ ^^

[Cornucopia]

Sure sounds like a Drop/NonDrop disparity. On an hour-long show, it'll be off by 3.6 seconds.

Maestro recognizes the TimeStamp encoded into the file and sets the timeline accordingly. You can tell because the timecode shows [##:##:##:##] for NDF and [##;##;##;##] or [##:##:##;##] for DF.

So, either the timestamp on the file is wrong,
or the timestamp on the subs are wrong.

Most encoders DON'T allow you to adjust the timestamp easily (although you could do it after the fact with Restream, etc), and the majority will create a NonDropFrame timestamp.

It's more than likely that your subbing app is set wrong--I've had this problem before, also.

I can't remember how I got around it, although I do remember using an Excel table (with TC functions added) and a lot of hand recoding!
Lesson learned.

Scott

[Adora2420]

Sure sounds like a Drop/NonDrop disparity. On an hour-long show, it'll be off by 3.6 seconds.

Maestro recognizes the TimeStamp encoded into the file and sets the timeline accordingly. You can tell because the timecode shows [##:##:##:##] for NDF and [##;##;##;##] or [##:##:##;##] for DF.

So, either the timestamp on the file is wrong,
or the timestamp on the subs are wrong.

Most encoders DON'T allow you to adjust the timestamp easily (although you could do it after the fact with Restream, etc), and the majority will create a NonDropFrame timestamp.

It's more than likely that your subbing app is set wrong--I've had this problem before, also.

Scott

This does sound like the case. The video file is in fact non drop frame, but I don't see a way to force subtitle workshop into that mode. The subtitle files were written in drop frame code. When I export it out as an .stl file for use in Maestro, it automatically changes it to an incorrectly timed non drop frame code. I tried manually adjusting it but it's too late to fix it at that point. I'll play around with this info and the program you mentioned to see if I can figure something out. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know~ I'll be sure to post if I ever get it right for the sake of anyone else with this problem~ ^^

Thank you so much for helping me understand what is going on~! ^-^

[Adora2420]

I believe I've solved my problem. Thank you *so* much BJ_M and Cornucopia for your input, I'd never have figured it out without you~! ^-^

The solution was much more simple than I'd have believed. I thought I'd tried it at some point during trial and error, but apparantly I didn't.

Since I was able to figure out that my video was set to non drop frame code I realized I had to make the subs that as well somehow. My math skills are non existant, so I was starting to panic at the idea of any kind of manual retiming. Reading through info online I managed to get a more clear understanding of drop and non drop frames. It allowed me to realize that I needed to stop trying so hard to force my sub file to be 29.97 timing. I tried changing the time of my subtitle file to 30fps, and to my shock it seems to be perfectly in synch again~ ^-^ I'd never have expected I could fix it so easily. I feel a bit like an idiot now, but at least my problem is solved~! *^-^*

Thank you so much for helping me out~!