FBI plans new Net-tapping push

[Teutatis]

The FBI has drafted sweeping legislation that would require Internet service providers to create wiretapping hubs for police surveillance and force makers of networking gear to build in backdoors for eavesdropping, CNET News.com has learned.

http://news.com.com/FBI+plans+new+Net-tapping+push/2100-1028_3-6091942.html?tag=nefd.top

[mh2360]

Sounds like the US is getting like the Cold War era Soviet Union. At least they tell you they are watching you... Hows THAT for freedom of information...

[ViRaL1]

In soviet Russia, web browses you!

[Lucifers_Ghost]

I'm not really surprised they are going to be doing this. They already have tons of people monitoring the internet itself, just not specific targets.

There was just a story two weeks ago I think, where terrorists were going to bomb tunnels in new york. It was apparantly setup on internet chat rooms. Gov't officials found out about it as they monitor certain places on the web. Its only a logical extension that they will now target specific individuals.

LG

[Marvingj]

Whatever had to FREEDOM, This is Communism in America.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Whatever had to FREEDOM, This is Communism in America.

Freedom comes at a price I suppose. If there are going to be people in the world (Im NOT targeting any one religion or nationality or anything .. just random people) who will promote violence on a large scale (ie. terrorism), then I'll take a little less freedom for a little more security.

That being said, I also turn a blind eye in that the govt is going to use this net tapping as a means to promote said security. I cant believe its for people who pirate music. If it is, my faith in humanity and morality will fall even lower.

LG

[VegasBud]

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security do not deserve either." - Benjamin Franklin

[gastorgrab]

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security do not deserve either." - Benjamin Franklin

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson to be the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Many variants derived from this phrase have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin:
- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"

.

[kush]

Close enough.

[VegasBud]

gastorgrab,

As you may or may not know, while wikipedia.org is a very handy reference, the way it is set up anyone can put anything into it, regardless of their credentials. The section of the article you posted demonstrates a weakness of that system.

The claim that Franklin did not author the quote is based on only one listed reference. If you click the link that says "here" in the excerpt you posted, you will be taken to that reference, a web page titled "Franklin Quoted by Minsky". If you read that page, you will see that Richard Minsky (the reference for the claim) is upset about the literal accuracy of what is on the internet, and the changing of grammar. He is using this quote as an example.

As far as Minsky is concerned, the true quote is "Thofe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchafe a little Temporary Safety, deferve neither Liberty nor Safety." He is actually complaining about the changing of the words to a more modern interpretation.

In that article, Minsky concludes:

Franklin may well have composed this particular quote. The actual version, as opposed to the one presented at 44,000 websites, does have the ring of his style.

His real complaint is:

Whether or not Franklin was the author, the version on thousands of websites misquotes it and makes Franklin sound illiterate.

The claim in the wikipedia article is misleading, at best, and is not substantiated by the reference. Furthermore, I would contend that, since the purpose of words is to convey ideas, Mr. Minsky should not be so concerned about updating antiquated language to be more readily understood in modern times.

[gastorgrab]

Simplier yet, if you know of the document authored by Franklin that includes this quote then please post it (the link).
.

[VegasBud]

gastorgrab,

The quote is on the title page of "An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania" (first edition) published in 1759. You would have known that if you read the reference by Minsky that was cited for the Wikipedia article excerpt you posted. Also on the reference page is a scan of the quote that Minsky made of the title page from the copy of that book which he paid $1,000.00 for.

To be honest, I have no interest in a historical debate over who the original author was, nor in whether the exact same words must be used in order to convey the idea. In all the times I have read or heard the quote, in all it's variances, I have never heard it attributed to any person other than Benjamin Franklin. I put his name after the quote to show respect for who I and most other people believe was the originator.

Since you seem to be having a problem with this, here's a quote, just for you, to replace my original post:

"Freedom is far too precious, and came at too dear a cost, to barter it away merely for the fleeting illusion of safety" - VegasBud (2006)

[gastorgrab]

Library Of Congress source seems consistant with Wiki.

http://www.loc.gov/shop/index.php?action=cCatalog.showItem&cid=14&scid=173&iid=3177

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." This quotation was used frequently during the Revolutionary period. It was first documented in 1755 in an answer by the Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor. Franklin used it as his motto in his "Historical Review" in 1759.

I have no interest in a historical debate over who the original author was

Neither do i.
.