Blu-ray & HD-DVD already failed formats?

[bbanderic]

Because I can. This isn't a switch from analog VHS to DVD, it's switching from one digital format to another. I love dvd because of the lack of noise in the picture, which plagued VHS. Now were' going from an already clean picture to another clean picture. They can't make it any cleaner, as many movies are shot in digital now as is. What exactly are you expecting for a new technology? The only thing they can do right now is increase the resolution. It's all fine to say 'this isn't improving much' and clamering how it's failed, but I don't see them offering what they DO want. That's because they can't exactly start yelling for full holographic displays because they don't exist for the common consumer and won't for a LONG time to come.

My point is, for a new format to be successfull, the masses have to buy into it. If the difference in quality is minimal between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD costs nearly twice as much it won't be successfull. Lets not forget the costs of the players as well. Remember SACD, DVD audio?

If they can get the cost of the players and discs in line with DVD, then we're talking. By the time that happens, it'll probably be irrelevent. We'll be on to the next thing, most likely downloadable HD content rather than physical discs.

[DJRumpy]

lol..Do you think the price on every new tech magically starts on the market for what your paying today? The very prices your praising for DVD's, were 'high' for their own time when they were released. Those DVD players that you can get for less than a hundred bucks were over $1000. Each improvement will drive these prices down, as will early adopters such as myself. Without us, you'd still be listening to phonographs and paying a premium for it.

A product isn't 'failed' until it is. This product definitely is not failed, as millions have already sold in PS3's, and now the actual players have started becoming affordable. I saw a story on the news this month about a dedicated player for $500 that plays dvd and blue-ray just like the PS3. The original player was something like a thousand and it played only blue-ray. Nuff said.

Look at the facts. The prices are already dropping, which means the masses are aleady buying into it. It's here to stay.

A wee snippet I found on the net:

The Nielsen VideoScan tracking data has come in and it shows that Blu-Ray movies are outselling HD-DVD by over a 2:1 margin; in fact, closer to 3:1.

Moreover, the gap seem to show signs of widening, possibly predicting a sign of things to come for the movie industry. The numbers for the week ending January 7th demonstrate that for every 47.14 HD-DVDs movies sold, there are 100 Blu-Ray movies sold. But the statistic worsens, as for the following week, ending January 14th, the amount of HD-DVDs sold would be 38.36, for every 100 Blu-Rays sold.

Granted I grabbed this snippet off some random site, so no idea how accurate it is. In any case, both formats are selling (HD-DVD and Blue-Ray). There IS an obvious market for it.

[AlecWest]

My point is, for a new format to be successfull, the masses have to buy into it. If the difference in quality is minimal between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD costs nearly twice as much it won't be successfull. Lets not forget the costs of the players as well. Remember SACD, DVD audio?

Yes, and remember (1970s) how Quadraphonic Stereo was going to be the wave of the future? I bought into that dream, covering my tush by getting both SQ (Sony) and Discrete (JVC) equipment so that, whichever format won the war, I'd have it. But now, you're lucky if you can find any of that equipment - even at a Goodwill store.

Here's an article I wrote for Associated Content on the subject of HD television:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/97361/high_definition_television_the_21st.html

[RLT69]

A product isn't 'failed' until it is. This product definitely is not failed, as millions have already sold in PS3's, and now the actual players have started becoming affordable. I saw a story on the news this month about a dedicated player for $500 that plays dvd and blue-ray just like the PS3. The original player was something like a thousand and it played only blue-ray. Nuff said.

Oh contrare...Yes a PS3 is alot cheaper than most Blu-ray players, though as you stated, prices are dropping...but how good is Blue-ray playback?? How does the PS3 stackup to dedicated Blu-ray players?

And as others have pointed out most people buying the PS3 are buying it for gaming and thus those numbers are not accurate indicators of a movie viewing audience.

The real reason Blu-ray and HDDVD are failed is because of technology. If left unchallenged Blu-ray and HDDVD could fight it out and one might emerge the winner for HD content. The problem is technology is not standing still. There are already other competing technologies entering the market, such as HVD. These newer technologies blow away Blue-ray and HDVD.

Thus technology is in too much flux to bet on Blu-ray or HDVD. Considering most people today do not have an HD TV, Blu-ray and HDDVD should fade from the market by the time HD TVs have hit market saturation.

[DJRumpy]

PS3 Blue-Ray playback works as expected. I'm not sure what you mean by this? You hit play, it plays. It supports all of the blue-ray playback features. Full uncompressed audio and 1080P output. It IS a blue-ray player and a game console. The numbers above weren't about the PS3. These are the numbers for Blue-Ray and HD-DVD movie sales. If most people are buying PS3 for games, then your making my own argument for me indicating people are paying a XXXXload of money for dedicated Blue-Ray players. They obviously need something to play these disks on, no?

The HVD does nothing to blow away either blue-ray or HDV in regards to HD output. Neither is at the limit of it's storage capacity now. What good are terabytes of storage when they can't even fill up a disk now? It offers nothing above existing technology except for more storage. It doesn't offer higher resolution. What would they play such a disk on, if they did have higher resolution video? You forget that HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are designed for HDTV, not some made up display that doesn't exist yet. They kind of go hand in hand.

And what exactly do you think people will be viewing on a standard HDTV except for HDTV content? DVD can't deliver 1080P HD quality video. The only HD content that users can buy at this moment that can replace DVD is Blue-Ray or HD-DVD. Did you finish reading the info on HDV?

HVD is not the only technology in next-generation, high-capacity optical storage media. InPhase Technologies has developed a holographic format they call Tapestry Media, capable of storing up to 1.6TB with a data transfer rate of 120 MB/s (960 Mbit). Hitachi Maxell, Ltd. plans to enter the market by offering 300 GB discs with a data transfer rate of 20 MB/s (160 Mbit). Such large optical storage capacities compete favorably with both HD DVD and Blu-Ray Disc. However, the reader will cost around US$15,000, and a single disc will cost around US$120-180, but prices are expected to fall steadily. [6]. The market for this format is not initially the common consumer, but enterprises with very large storage needs.

None of these new technologies you mention are ready for the common Home Electronics consumer and they won't be for years. It took plasma a few years just to get into the low thousands of dollars for a display. I don't think I'll be upgrading from Blue-Ray in the next few years

[CrayonEater]

But those prices will come down too, as you pointed out with other technologies. Therefore, it is better to wait a few years for HVD than put money into two already-obsolete formats, especially since we don't know which one will prevail. And HVD's storage capacity is SORELY needed - with current resolution and framerates, it is quite reasonable that content providers could put entire seasons of TV shows on a single disc, or create small discs for playback in handheld devices. And with manufacturers already having developed far higher-resolution TVs and display devices, the limitations of BR and HD-DVD are already obvious and HDTV as we know it probably is already becoming obsolete as well.

[RLT69]

PS3 is a gaming console. The media that PS3 games come on is blu-ray. If from that you want to infer that the PS3 is a dedicated blu-ray go ahead but you would be incorrect.

In terms of movie playback I was refering to the video quality. There are articles comparing PS3 and XBox video playback quality. Dedicated players have the advantage of including electronics that can improve the playback that the PS3 or XBox would not otherwise include.

From the following article:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127892-page,1-c,dvddrivesmedia/article.html

"The PS3 has two technical limitations that set it apart from stand-alone Blu-ray players. First, unlike stand-alone Blu-ray players, the PS3 does not have a dedicated video chip set optimized for decoding Blu-ray video, instead relying on the Cell processor and its software to do the job. This may turn out to be a plus, however, as Sony's improvements to the player software can be more easily distributed to existing users than a hardware upgrade.

Second, the PS3 offers 1080p60 (where the 60 refers to frames per second) playback, which is less optimal than 1080p24 for filmed content. Few displays support 1080p24 output today, but if your HD set and your BD player do so, you should see higher-quality images than you'd get from 1080p60 output. Since movies are filmed at 24 frames per second, you'd want to use an even multiple of 24 (such as 72 frames per second) to avoid motion artifacts in slow-panning scenes. If you display 24-fps content at an uneven multiple, like the commonly used 60 fps, you'll end up with those artifacts."


HVD blows away either format with its capacity. It's all about capacity. Yes 50GB is not enough. Your arguments fall into the line of "640GB is all they'll ever need," very short-sighted. With the increased size of HVD you can have higher bitrates and no compression. You can literally have raw recordings. That's the advantage to size, more information can be stored.

Resolution also has to do with size so yes HVD can offer greater resolution over HDDVD or blu-ray. How about 2160p also known as "Quad HDTV"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2160p

http://blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2005/09/next-step-beyond-1080p-2160p.html

Try putting that on blu-ray.

Given the current number of HD TVs, noone is clamoring for HD content. Most people do not care. The cost is too much. DVDs are more than most people care in terms of video quality. A solid upconverting DVD player would make more sense then to purchase either an HDVD or blu-ray player.

That's the other problem: there's a format war! If there was only one format then there would be a quicker adoption. Combined with the format war and size limitations - people are going to wait.

[DJRumpy]

Again, none of these things exist today in any home electronics store. If you believed your own argument, you'd still be using windows 98 and working on a 486 processor.

You can't buy any of these things (unless you happen to have 15K spare cash). I find your arguments laughable. You cannot go into any home electronics store and find a tv that displays anything higher than 1080p.

Did you read your own linked article?

"Good luck finding native content to watch on this thing, or even a fast-enough playback device—but still, it's a fascinating peek into the future of vid-life after HDTV"

or

"If one wished to drive this panel at its native resolution, you would want a 2160p HDTV signal. Given that we've observed previously that there aren't even any sources that drive 1080p, it's clear that the panel manufacturers are leading the HDTV standards bodies."

HDTV has taken YEARS to get here, and there are still a huge number of broadcasters sending out analog signals. It will be here for years to come, as will the HDTV's that display that signal and the media that displays that signal. The cost just to implement the infrastructure is staggering, and not something that will happen overnight. All of these toys you keep linking to don't even exist to the common consumer and won't until there are displays, and STANDARDS defined to even broadcast such things.

No matter how fast they come out with these new formats and storage media, until you can buy a tv to display it, and a player to play it, it's just another tech toy for your pc.

In either case, enjoy your SD for the next year or two, then buy an adapter so you can continue make like the 1960's with your television when HDTV becomes mandatory. Fortunately we'll have a 'failed' selection of formats we can play back...lol.

Perhaps in 8 or 10 years when they define whatever the new standard happens to be, you'll lower yourself to purchase an HDTV set and a PS3

[lacywest]

My point is, for a new format to be successfull, the masses have to buy into it. If the difference in quality is minimal between upscaled DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD and Blu-Ray/HD DVD costs nearly twice as much it won't be successfull. Lets not forget the costs of the players as well. Remember SACD, DVD audio?

Yes, and remember (1970s) how Quadraphonic Stereo was going to be the wave of the future? I bought into that dream, covering my tush by getting both SQ (Sony) and Discrete (JVC) equipment so that, whichever format won the war, I'd have it. But now, you're lucky if you can find any of that equipment - even at a Goodwill store.

Here's an article I wrote for Associated Content on the subject of HD television:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/97361/high_definition_television_the_21st.html

National Semiconductor and ECG ... the IC chips were available in their parts catalogs and the schematics were available from a Sams electronics book called the "Source of Electronic Circuits" book. A whole chapter was dedicated to Quadriphonic circuits.

I found it at the Library and copied the pages. The Quadriphonic Circuits chapter showed several ways to use the chips and one in particular the ECG 1022 ... ran on 15 volts and only used a few resistors and input/output capacitors.

I made one and used it in my my 74 Pinto ... back in 84 ... sounded good,

I used a Radio Shack 100 watt stereo amplifier and I tapped into the 50 volt ... 25 volts Plus and minus power supply and used the positive 25 volts to make a clean 15 volt power supply to run the ECG 1022 ... sound good in my 74 Pinto. As for the engine under the hood ... I worried everytime the cops pulled me over ... I didn't want them to ask me to pop the hood ... oh they would have been pissed at me

http://www.electrospec.com/electronic/components-parts/04721-Electronic-Components-104.html ... ECG 1022 .... quantity available ... 100s of them.

Same web page.

The chips for SQ quad were there too. Made by Motorola ... back in those days. I still have some of the chips. For the SQ Quad chip ... ECG 799 ... 100s of them too !!

The ECG 799 IC chip use a resistor/capacitor network to create the R/C phase network to split the 2 stereo channels to SQ Quad. Two more IC chips the 802 and the 803 helped make the gain riding circuits to give the 4 output channels more zap ... but the term called ... breathing and pumping was also enhanced.

I do have one ECG 1022 and one ECG 799 IC chip. But the box I made has been retired and put away in a drawer.

[bbanderic]

No matter how fast they come out with these new formats and storage media, until you can buy a tv to display it, and a player to play it, it's just another tech toy for your pc.

In either case, enjoy your SD for the next year or two, then buy an adapter so you can continue make like the 1960's with your television when HDTV becomes mandatory. Fortunately we'll have a 'failed' selection of formats we can play back...lol.

Perhaps in 8 or 10 years when they define whatever the new standard happens to be, you'll lower yourself to purchase an HDTV set and a PS3

I think you're confusing the issue here, no one is disputing the fact that HDTV will be the future standard. The dispute is whether Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD will become the new optical media standard, IMO that is very much "up in the air".

[codecpage]

A downloadable NetFlix model + recordable disc could win the day and reshape the media distribution business much like Honda and Toyota reshaped the auto business.

Yepp, riding to a store for a piece of carved plastic is archaic. A 'format war' about this is just bizarre. I only care about these discs for data storage, and for a limited time.

The future lies in downloading, and those trying to dam technology will be flushed away.

More of this here:

http://www.theendofhardware.com/index_fairy2.html

Cheers

[DJRumpy]

bbanderic, I don't think I'm missing the point at all. The fact is that there are NO other HDTV compatible formats that are out, available to ma and pa consumer, and with established standards right now except for Blue-Ray or HD-DVD. There are only prototypes, and hardware costing well in excess of $10,000 dollars.

One or the other will win, or they will simply co-exist much like DVD -R/+R. I suspect the later as both are selling well, and the issue becomes mute when a player comes out that supports both formats. I will say that HD-DVD is more of a stop gap on the way to the capacities that Blue-Ray supports all other aspects being equal, so I suspect it will eventually fall by the wayside, much like -R seems to be fading simply because +R supports higher speeds on paper. Blue-Ray supports higher capacity and a almost twice the transfer rate of HD-DVD. If it turns out the same, then the consumer simply won't care, as all my players support both, as do my burners. I suspect the same outcome for Blue-Ray and HD-DVD.

[DereX888]

Uncertain the future is.
(Master Yoda)

[AlecWest]

I think you're confusing the issue here, no one is disputing the fact that HDTV will be the future standard.

Actually, I am 8) . I have no doubt that HDTV will continue to be marketed for a while. But unless production costs for TV sets and players come down substantially, the middle class consumer is going to take a powder. Digital TV is a certainty "standard" wise. HD? Not such a certainty.

[Cornucopia]

Not only that but, "archaic" or not, I still much prefer buying and renting actual physical discs. I much prefer going out to a local mom-and-pop video store and finding new choices I hadn't even considered before I got there. Sure, they could be more limited than online (but not necessarily), sure they could cost more (but not necessarily), but I get to shoot the breeze with a real-life person who happens to be a movie buff like me, or I get to ogle the new female clerk (sorry, I'm human OK?), or I get to get out of my house for a while (it's good for you, you know).
You guys keep missing out that there are other factors involved here, and many people's priorities aren't the same as yours.
Yes, the pie will adjust to include virtual collections and downloads (maybe even as a majority), but the pie's just going to get bigger anyway, so the amount of physical discs will still be growing.
Same for SD/HD/other.

Scott

[edDV]

Yep, the DVD bargain bin at Wal-Mart would be less interesting without all the cover art. How dull if they were all in white envelopes.

[nwo]

[SingSing]

I much prefer going out to a local mom-and-pop video store and finding new choices I hadn't even considered before I got there. Sure, they could be more limited than online (but not necessarily), sure they could cost more (but not necessarily), but I get to shoot the breeze with a real-life person who happens to be a movie buff like me, or I get to ogle the new female clerk (sorry, I'm human OK?), or I get to get out of my house for a while (it's good for you, you know).
You guys keep missing out that there are other factors involved here, and many people's priorities aren't the same as yours. Scott

Okay, Okay, you convience me that not to lock myself in the my mom house's basement and watch movies feed by FIOS.

Note : FIOS is cheaper than DSL, becuase you don't have to get stuck/pay the local phone line.

[Modern Times]

Besides Beta and VHS, DVD audio and SACD, what about Mini Disc and mp3. I’m getting sick and tired of buying short term technology. Are most consumers made of money? I was ready to by the Toshiba HD-XA2 but now I think I will just stick with my Oppo Digital 971 and 46 inch Sharp Quos and Sanyo Z4 and enjoy them. Is it just me or is anyone else getting angry at the greed of these companies. Why can’t there ever be a relatively easy transition into a new and better technology? I tend to blame Sony in particular for some of this.

[AlecWest]

Why can’t there ever be a relatively easy transition into a new and better technology?

Lack of agreement over just what is "new and better." The current HD-DVD/BluRay format war is the absolute worst thing that could happen during a rollout of an improved HD technology. Like you, I get the feeling that two sides are locked in a marketing war and are expecting Joe Consumer to pick the winner. Usually, it's the "technophiles" who pick sides early on ... leaving Joe Consumer saying, "When the war's over, then I'll pick a winner ... if I can afford it and want it bad enough."

[somebodeez]

"When the war's over, then I'll pick a winner ... if I can afford it and want it bad enough."

And that in a nutshell, is my stance.

[SingSing]

"When the war's over, then I'll pick a winner ... if I can afford it and want it bad enough."

And that in a nutshell, is my stance.

Sign me up too.

Note 1 : Such an obvious answer to : To BD/HD or not to BD/HD.

Note 2 : Unless LG's DVD/BD/HD player is less than $249.00.

[BJ_M]

Porn could be the key to next-generation DVD war

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - In the battle over next generation DVDs, pornography could prove to be the XXX factor that helps determine a winner.

Thirty years ago, VHS toppled Betamax in part because of the adult film industry, and now some see blue movies playing a key role again as backers of HD-DVD and Blu-ray maneuver to make their formats the standard.

The stakes are high. As prices of high-definition televisions and DVD players fall, backers of the rival -- and incompatible -- formats are looking to tap a home and rental DVD market approaching $25 billion.

Yet so far, neither next-generation format has been able to land a knock-out blow.

James McQuivey, a principal analyst at technology research firm Forrester, said in the VHS-versus-Betamax war, porn provided a significant boost for the winning format.

He also noted the adult entertainment industry has often paved the way with new uses of technology -- such as streaming video on the Internet -- and said porn could help tip the scales in the current DVD format battle.

"If the porn industry wanted to break the logjam of HD-DVD and Blu-ray, it could," McQuivey said. "If they said 'We are going to go with HD-DVD' you would see a few million homes immediately go out and buy HD-DVD players. They have that power.".................................Continued...

[ozymango]

[quote="BJ_M"]Porn could be the key to next-generation DVD war

Good to know I wasn't totally off the mark in my earlier predictions along these lines!

[DereX888]

i think Blue Ray ought to be or soon will be called "blur ray" (as in fading away)

[DJRumpy]

As predicted, the PS3 seems to be having a real world impact on BD sales. Blue Ray also appears to be pulling ahead in the format wars. Latest Numbers from CNET.

I'm guessing the average consumer is actually a bit more technically inclined than 20 years ago in regards to specifications. The internet probably helps in this regard as information is readily available where it wasn't 20 years ago. The cost of these units is almost identical in regards to players, so the initial development cost for BR appears to be paying off. Has anyone found any other independent sales figures that are less than a month or two old? I'd like to see a few more.

Just be aware that the quote was from Sony, so expect the numbers to be inflated somewhere The CNET numbers would seem to point in the same direction. I've been hunting for independent numbers, but they are still hard to find other than the ones from earlier this year ( Link

Here is a link to the reference article below


European Blu-ray sales boosted by Playstation 3
Friday 06th July 2007, 12:40:45 AM, written by Carl Bender

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has been quoted as stating that European Blu-ray sales have increased over 1000% since the launch of the Playstation 3 this past March, with over 180,000 Sony Pictures BD films purchased to date in the territory.

Although a small market at present relative to the US in terms of HD adoption (under 20,000 standalone players sold), trends in Europe have been similar to trends in the US. Prior to the launch of the PS3 in Europe, HD DVD was enjoying a sales lead in both high-definition install base and media sales; as stateside, Toshiba's standalones and HD DVD add-on for the 360 held a considerable numerical advantage to their Blu-ray competition. With the launch of the PS3, however, BD has regularly claimed not only the weekly sales lead, but succeeded in surpassing HD DVDs "since inception" sales figures in the span of roughly a month. In a prediction originating in French-language print magazine Les années laser, format neutral studio Warner France expects their own sales of high-definition media to favor Blu-ray to HD DVD 5:1 by year end - 540,000 BD vs 121,000 HD DVD in France - in part due to the Playstation 3's effect in driving the format in Europe.

In related news, both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the HD DVD Promotion Group are presently under an antitrust investigation by the European Commission.[/url]

[DereX888]

As predicted, the PS3 seems to be having a real world impact on BD sales. Blue Ray also appears to be pulling ahead in the format wars. Latest Numbers from CNET.

I'm guessing the average consumer is actually a bit more technically inclined than 20 years ago in regards to specifications. The internet probably helps in this regard as information is readily available where it wasn't 20 years ago. The cost of these units is almost identical in regards to players, so the initial development cost for BR appears to be paying off. Has anyone found any other independent sales figures that are less than a month or two old? I'd like to see a few more.

Just be aware that the quote was from Sony, so expect the numbers to be inflated somewhere The CNET numbers would seem to point in the same direction. I've been hunting for independent numbers, but they are still hard to find other than the ones from earlier this year ( Link

Here is a link to the reference article below


European Blu-ray sales boosted by Playstation 3
Friday 06th July 2007, 12:40:45 AM, written by Carl Bender

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has been quoted as stating that European Blu-ray sales have increased over 1000% since the launch of the Playstation 3 this past March, with over 180,000 Sony Pictures BD films purchased to date in the territory.

Although a small market at present relative to the US in terms of HD adoption (under 20,000 standalone players sold), trends in Europe have been similar to trends in the US. Prior to the launch of the PS3 in Europe, HD DVD was enjoying a sales lead in both high-definition install base and media sales; as stateside, Toshiba's standalones and HD DVD add-on for the 360 held a considerable numerical advantage to their Blu-ray competition. With the launch of the PS3, however, BD has regularly claimed not only the weekly sales lead, but succeeded in surpassing HD DVDs "since inception" sales figures in the span of roughly a month. In a prediction originating in French-language print magazine Les années laser, format neutral studio Warner France expects their own sales of high-definition media to favor Blu-ray to HD DVD 5:1 by year end - 540,000 BD vs 121,000 HD DVD in France - in part due to the Playstation 3's effect in driving the format in Europe.

In related news, both the Blu-ray Disc Association and the HD DVD Promotion Group are presently under an antitrust investigation by the European Commission.[/url]

Bunch of typical mumbo-jumbo bollocks
Im actually surprised they didn't say 1000000% since February 2007 (because it wasn't launch yet at that time, but percentage-wise from zero to whatever numbers they want would indicate million percent LOL)

And, umm, how 540,000 : 121,000 can equal 5:1? Its not even 4.5 (wheres that damn calculator...) anyways its certainly closer to 4:1 than 5:1 (which doesn't really matters - it only proves how biased is this article).

How many actual PS3 machines were sold in Europe?
How many actual BR-DVD players were sold?
How many actual HD-DVD players were sold?
Answers to these the questions could tell who is leading "the race" at this moment.
But since no manufacturer want to publicly admit initial failure of their format (regardles of it being BR or HD - both still sell below any predictions nor expectations), they all operate with 'big words' like "1000% growth" LOL I hope no one have any doubt that sales of HD-DVD players since their launch grew same 1000 or more percent too? Obviously LOL
I say VHS is the winner, because certainly there are still more VHS players in use than both BR & HD players combined, hahaha!
Thats the problem with statistical data shown by percentages.
They more often blur the reality than give any real answers

[DJRumpy]

Actually I was hoping for useful input

The PS3 was released in November of 2006.

Who is leading the race is not in doubt. Blue-ray titles are selling far more than hd-dvd due to content available. I was more interested in the hard numbers myself, rather than percentages. The only HD-DVD studio of any concern is Universal. All of the other major studios either release in BR only, or they release in both formats.

[DereX888]

Actually I was hoping for useful input

The PS3 was released in November of 2006.

Who is leading the race is not in doubt. Blue-ray titles are selling far more than hd-dvd due to content available. I was more interested in the hard numbers myself, rather than percentages.

Yes I know it was released last year, but I was referring to european launch date ("sales have increased over 1000% since the launch of the Playstation 3 this past March,").
I can edit my post to say October 2006 instead of February 2007 if it make it more clear what I meant, but then it won't be correct with the article

IMHO it doesn't matter who was leading before or is leading the race now
You can be sure that the first format that becomes available as affordable recorders with affordable blanks will take it all.
And since Sony is the major entertainment industry stockholder, it will stall and prolong as long as possible and BR will be the last one to come up with affordable BR-DVD burners.
Thats why I have no doubt it will be HD-DVD or yet-another-to-appear format to "win" it
Personally to me it doesn't matter who'll win, IMHO both are cheap already

[DJRumpy]

The article was written in July 2007. How is the UK release date not relevant?

"European Blu-ray sales boosted by Playstation 3
Friday 06th July 2007, 12:40:45 AM, written by Carl Bender"

I beg to disagree. Lackluster sales of HD-DVD even during weeks of 'blockbuster' release dates would indicate it simply doesn't have enough drawing power with a single exclusive studio. As I said, there is no doubt in my mind as to who has already won. PS3 was released after HD-DVD already had a market share. It is technically superior in regards to both capacity and available bandwidth. Blue ray has surpassed it already in both unit and title sales.

I also disagree regarding the 'low price' argument. The only thing that will do is saturate the market with low cost players of both types. it is the way of a free market. If an HD-DVD player becomes available at a lower cost, then I'm sure the Blue-Ray camp will produce a price drop as well. Definitely desirable. Many people rarely buy the single cheapest player they can find unless they think it is a good value. When I buy a DVD player, I certainly don't go out and buy a $60 player because it's cheap. I research, find the features I want, and order the player I find with the best price and with the features I'm looking for.

I did manage to find some numbers, but they are from April. ( http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/564). Still looks like an easy lead for Blue Ray. With 7 in the all time top ten versus 3 for HD-DVD. It also has 9 out of 10 titles for the week of 03/18 although I don't consider those numbers relevant. Without the content that Blue-Ray has available, and due to the technical differences, I think HD-DVD will become another (-R) format. Still around, but slowly being replaced. It certainly won't go away overnight.