Convert VOB to AVI for editing in Pinnacle Studio

[grannyGeek]

I have some vob files on my hard drive that I want to convert to DV avi so I can edit them in Pinnacle Studio v 9,
I'm trying to avoid converting the vobs to mpeg, because I intend to do extensive effects and editing, and have been strongly warned that re-encoding mpeg after this kind of editing will lead to bad quality loss.

I found instructions for the avi conversion in this forum, and it should be simple, but it isn't working out well for me.

Vob audio is AC3 5.1 channel.
I installed panasonic dv codec, and AC3 ACM codec.

Studio is apparently very picky about file formats.
It can only load mpeg1, mpeg2, avi type 2, LPCM or PCM type wav sound, and sometimes mp3 audio.
I have tried a number of different combinations of settings, and either Studio won't play the avi, or it simply crashes when I try to load it.

I load my vob into VirtualDubMod, select panasonic dv codec.
For the Audio Stream, I have tried the AC3 ACM codec, the Microsoft pcm codec, and even PCM Uncompressed.

I've tried several different vobs, and VDM Frame Rate window always says 23.97.
If I can get Studio to stay on its feet long enough to start to load the converted avi, it complains about non-standard frame rate, it is expecting 29.97.
I tried changing frame rate to 29.97, and that crashed Studio too.

The files will play ok in Windows Media Player.

Is this a sign from god that I should change to another NLE editor?
I do like Studio for doing effects, transitions, picture-in-picture, etc.


Does anyone have a bit of advice that might turn this situation around?

Thanks for any and all help.
>

[daamon]

Load the VOB into VirtualDubMod by: File -> Open Video File

You're doing the right thing as far as the Panasonic DV Codec goes for the video part of the footage.

For the audio, click: Streams -> Stream list, then select the loaded VOB. Then click the "Save WAV" button to save the audio to a WAV file - I've not tried this with 5.1 AC3 as the source, but it's worth a try...

Also, I've never worked with 23.97fps - only ever PAL 25fps.

[grannyGeek]

Hi daamon, thanks for posting.

I'm happy to report that I seem to have fallen upon a successful process.
I just found a post by Baldrick recommending VirtualDub-Mpeg2, and that seems to do the trick for me.

So anyway, I load my vob into VD-Mpeg2

For audio compression, I use PCM Uncompressed.
( If I use any of the listed codecs, the resulting avi has no sound in Studio 9.
Also, audio Direct Stream Copy has no sound in Studio.)

For video compression, I use Panasonic DV codec.


After trying vobs from 6 different source disks, I conclude that this process works for *my* particular installation of Pinnacle Studio.
< knock wood >


I understood that VirtualDubMod combined / included VDMpeg2 and some other applications, but apparently something is slightly different about the standalone app.
For one thing, it properly reports the frame-rate as 29.97, and I think the frame-rate weirdness in VDM was contributing to Studio crashing.

I don’t understand all of G-Spot’s data, but it reports for the
Original vob
Pics / Sec 23.97 Frms / sec 29.97[

Avi created with VirtualDubMod
Pics / Sec 23.97 Frms / sec 23.97

Avi created with VirtualDub-Mpeg2
Pics / Sec 29.97 Frms / sec 29.97

So maybe VirtualDubMod uses the Pics per second instead of Frames per second to establish its frame-rate. (whatever Pics/ second might be . . . )



My silent audio might have been because I haven’t paid Pinnacle to upgrade for AC3 capability, but I thought the AC3 ACM codec was supposed to convert AC3 to WAV.
< ???? >
using Save Wave gets a file that will play in Windows Media Player, but not much else, and my audio-converter program dbPower Music Converter reports that it is Zero-bit instead of 8-bit or 16-bit, I don't see how it could possibly be zero.
< ???? >


Once again, videohelp.com came to the rescue !!!!
Thanks, Baldrick, and all of you here who help us newbs.

[Abond]

Obviously in the vob's you have 23.976 fps progressive stream that was soft-telecined to output 29.97 for playback. This is achieved with applying 3:2 pulldown to the 23.976 fps. This process sets flags on certain frames which allow the player to repeat fields from them. That is these flags are called pulldown flags or rff (repeat field flag). That is why you have 23.976 pics/sec (encoded!) and 29.97 frms/sec (the playback!) from GSpot
VDMod doesn't consider these flags by default and show you what exactly you have in the vob's - 23.976 progressive video. It can be set to consider them through Open video file dialog -> Ask for extended options (left bottom) box checked.
VDMpeg2 honor these flags by default.
But these flags have nothing to do with the audio.
The way you are dealing with the video converts soft-telecining with hard-telecining leadin to increase of the number of the frames with about 20% - that means for the same bitrate you gonna have lower quality.
Pinnacle obviously expect DV NTSC to be 29.97 fps. So IMO you have two options (I personaly would consider them). Ehm, I guess you final aim is DVD?
Load the vob's considering pulldown flag (29.97) and output to DV AVI 29.97 (you have done already). Load in Pinnacle, make editing and out as DV AVI again. Convert through avisynth using inverse telecine routines (for example decomb). This would leave you with 23.976 fps clean progressive stream. Apply pulldown and author the DVD.
The second: Load the vob without RFF (23.976). Output as 23.976 DVAVI. Load the avi again, change the fps to 29.97 and output as direct stream copy.
Load this in Pinnacle make editing and output as DV AVI 29.97. Load again in VDub(??) and change the fps to 23.976.
If you outputing to mpeg2 directly from Pinnacle. You can change the framerate of the mpeg in Restream - it is direct stream copy.

[grannyGeek]

Abond, thank you for taking the time to post.
I'm hoping you'll let me pick your brain a little more.

My Audio Problem is mostly because it turns out my AC3 ACM codec is broken, I've posted for advice over on the VirtualDub forum.
If I use PCM Uncompressed, audio works ok.

A bunch of your post is way over my head, but the main thing I think I pick up from you is that if I use VirtualDub-Mpeg2 to "force" the framerate, I am losing quality.

So, I am looking at following your suggestion for option 2
(option 1 is way beyond MY understanding, and Avisynth is totally terrifying)

The second: Load the vob without RFF (23.976). Output as 23.976 DVAVI. Load the avi again, change the fps to 29.97 and output as direct stream copy.
Load this in Pinnacle make editing and output as DV AVI 29.97. Load again in VDub(??) and change the fps to 23.976.
If you outputing to mpeg2 directly from Pinnacle. You can change the framerate of the mpeg in Restream - it is direct stream copy.

Ok, I can *almost* understand 90% of what you said.
Please, can you clarify what is "without RFF"?

Also, once I have the avi at 29.97 that I can load into Pinnacle, can I just do my editing and then use Pinnacle to render that to dvd files using the 29.97 framerate?
Do I HAVE to change the framerate back to 23.97 and render & burn that?

Sorry for all the questions, there's just so much technical information I still need to learn.

Thanks for your help.

[Abond]

Reading your questions I have one suggestion - please, forget everything I said if you are happy with the output using VDub mpeg2. All this knowledge I am demonstrating cost me almost an year of reading and experimenting (it is only hobby). I don't think I can explain it in several posts.
About your current questions: without rff means the way VDubMod showed you the vob by default.
In the option I gave you the video is sped up - everything move faster. If you render to DVD this sped up video all the movements would be unnaturally fast.
Therefore you need to slow it down to the source speed (29.97->23.976). Then, yes you have to change the framerate back to 23.976. But before burning you need to apply pulldown 23.976->29.97. This pulldown doesn't change the speed of the movements.
Now it comes to me that when you sped up the video to edit in Pinnacle you must also sped up the audio, because the transitions or effects may change the total framecount and thus you can have annoying asynch.
So, you can try and experiment and so on, but if you find it very bothering simply forget it.

[grannyGeek]

Thank you Abond.
That explanation clarified things quite a lot.
So my main concerns should be synch, and the speed of the action.

I will have to test with some other vobs, this one is panning over landscape with musical soundtrack, fading into a credit roll, so I have nothing to check synch or action speed.
( although I guess I could just compare original to converted file, huh. Duh!)

Thank you again for taking the time to respond, and for sharing your hard-earned knowledge.
Us newbies would sink like stones without folks like you helping us out.