TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 - BEWARE!

[brashquido]

Hi All,

Just a quick heads up to anyone considering purchasing TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 that there is a new transcoding "feature" in it that is virtually impossible to bypass. If you just want something easy to use and aren't to fussed about final video quality, then you can probably go ahead with TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 without worrying. However, if you are concerned with preserving maximum video quality in your project, I HIGHLY recommend you give this product a miss. If you really like the TMPGEnc DVD Author interface/structure, then go for TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 as it does not have a trancoding engine built in.

Rather than regurgitate, if you are interested in reading further about this new transcoding engine and the lengths you have to goto to bypass it please read the following threads;

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111785

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=823215

I just hope that my negative experience with this particular version of TMPGEnc DVD Author is enough to prevent other people from making the same purchasing mistake I did. I've tried contacting TMPGEnc support about the issue, but it has been 60+ hours since I got my acknowledgment e-mail and am still to get any sort of reply from them as yet. As I said above this new compulsory transcoding engine is ONLY present in version 2.0 of TMPGEnc DVD Author, you are able to use version 1.6 without transcoding which compromises the quality of your final project.

[laspis59]

I've paid for it and use it.I like the new features.

Damn,I didn't know it forced transcoding.

Pegasys you ********!!!

[brashquido]

Hey Luke,

I highly recommend that you write to Pegasys/TMPGEnc support and let them know you aren't happy about having this transcoding engine slipped in there. I very much doubt that they did it to intentionally p1ss their customers off, but rather to try and make the process easier for their customers and also to reduce their support requests from customers not using fully DVD compliant video. They need to be told by their customers that this transcoding engine is NOT a desirable feature for any user concerned about quality (and who isn't when talking about DVD), and at the very least there should be an option that allows you to totally disable it (apart from menu generation).

What really gets my goat about it is that;

a) This is the first version of DVD Author to include a transcoding engine, and there is no prominent notification that it's a new feature of 2.0.

b) The help files state that "The transcoding feature does not work with tracks which have CBR (constant bit rate)", and that by setting the transcode target to none that DVD Author should "Built and output the DVD folder without transcoding". Neither of which is correct by my tests. I have authored serveral test DVD's using CBR encoded VOB files (using Canopus Procoder), without any menus and with the transcode target set to none, and in all cases the VOB/IFO files created by TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 are of a different file size (VOBs are smaller, IFOs are bigger) than the originals. However, using an authoring program without a transcoding engine (such as DVDAuthorGUI) the output VOB/IFO files the exact same size as the originals.

Bottom line is the only rason I purchased TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0 was to have a quick and simple way to generate some nice looking menu's for my holiday DVD's. I did NOT buy it to have my video quality degraded.

[laspis59]

brashquido,dont worry,I filled in a customer services form telling them what I think straight after reading your post.

Basically I told them that I'm really angry and that their reputation is ruined from now onwards unless they sort it out.I also posted them the links to doom9 and this thread

I like the new features in TDA2 compared to v1.6 but am not willing to sacrifice quality,as I know you wont neither.

I suggest ALL owners of this software contact Pegasys/TMPGEnc and demand no re-encoding of already complaint MPEG video files.We should also spread this subject onto as many videohelp sites as possible.

If we all stick together on this I'm sure they'll sort it out or go bust.

[laspis59]

Anybody have any views on this matter? Or were you all sensible enough to stick version 1.6? I know there are a lot of TDA users out there.

Also I've noticed that the "Image Quality" setting always defaults to 90.The filesize is different with 100 set (Bigger).Shouldn't there be an option "Keep original source video quality" with smart rendering,just like the audio options?

Anyone have any suggestions as to what other GOOD DVD authoring program to use that can easily create nice menus whilst keeping the original quality of the already complaint MPEG/VOB files?

Version 1.6 is good,but I can find no way to create 16:9 menu's,it always encodes as 4:3 even if I add a 16:9 complaint DVD file as the background image.I NEED widescreen as in v2 of TDA.

Sorry to reply to myself,but I thought this would be a hot topic here at VH.com.

[Wile_E]

It does NOT transcode unless your files are messed up and not MPEG2/DVD compliant. I have both programs, and both programs don't transcode. It does go through a process to change the MPEG2 to VOB's. But this is different from transcoding. No loss of quality.

Now, if you edit certain sections, and paste them together, it does have to re-encode those sections. But this is the only time it does it.

[laspis59]

Thanks Wile_E thats a relief.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this matter,I hope brashquido comes back to the site to read your explanantion.

I've gone and sent a nasty massage to Pegasys/TMPGEnc because of this,you see I trust the views from doom9 members and thought setarip_old would correct zoinbergs (But then again setarip_old dont use the tool) I'd better apoligize to them.

The only thing I'm confused about now is what to set "Image Quality" to.As you know,it defaults to 90 even after setting to 100.The resulting filesize IS different.

Do I leave it at 90 or keep changing it to 100,what do you set it to Wile_E?

Thats the only answer I need advice on.Then I can happily continue authoring some fine DVD's.

Thanks again Wile_E.

.Now I'm embarassed because I dont know how to delete the comment I left in the TDA comment section.Can someone delete it.

[laspis59]

Wile_E,neuron2 suggests you to be notified regarding Zoinbergs and brashquido's claim.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=834176#post834176

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=823215

Quote from Zoinbergs

"Regularly authoring a DVD via TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0:

Step 1: Import supposedly DVD-Video compliant MPEGs into TDA 2.0

Step 2: Author the DVD using TDA 2.0

Total Authoring Time for 22 minutes of video : 45 minutes

MAJOR DOWNSIDE: All video clips are re-encoded using TDA 2.0's "smart rendering / transcoding engine" which results in NOTICABLE QUALITY LOSS, and not to mention that it takes 45 minutes to author the darn thing!"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well for me I can author 2 hours 30 minutes of video in 25 minutes!!!Regarding the VOB filesize difference v1.6 gives a slightly smaller VOB than the original source video,the same as v2

Who's correct.

Update:

I've been testing TDA v2 with complaint VOB's ripped from a commercial DVD.I see absolutely no quality loss.The VOB's are only a few kb's different from the original's,same with v1.6 (What's different more features eg more effects,16:9 menu generation ect... COOL) I'm no expert but TDA uses its own algorithm for finalizing the VOB's there's a possibility this is the cause,yeah.Zoinbergs MPEG's must be messed up because it shouldn't take 45 mins for 22 mins of video,it takes me about 4 minutes to process such a short duration of video.

Conclusion:

I'm happy with it and will continue to use it.End of subject.
After all I just haven't the time to f*** around with different tools anymore,I've spent long enough (Year and a half ) searching for what tools I find the best to suit my needs and have all I need for quality DVD and CD production,end of!

[brashquido]

It does NOT transcode unless your files are messed up and not MPEG2/DVD compliant. I have both programs, and both programs don't transcode. It does go through a process to change the MPEG2 to VOB's. But this is different from transcoding. No loss of quality.

Now, if you edit certain sections, and paste them together, it does have to re-encode those sections. But this is the only time it does it.

Wile_E, have you actually tested it? I would seriously love you to prove me wrong, but I have seen the source VOB filesize differ from the output VOB filesize everytime with my own eyes. Those threads I pointed to in my first post show that there is some form of file manipulation going on where the source is encoded as DVD compliant by other encoding programs. Both zoinberg and I have tested this over several senarios with consistant results. Zoinberg tested using the source wizard to import DVD-Video (i.e VOB's) directly from DVD's and the they are still transcoded. Zoinberg also has both 1.6 and 2.0 of DVD Author, and found this only happened with 2.0.

I used Canopus Procoder to encode my own VOB files from a holiday video using Edius ready to put to DVD, and again the files were transcoded. This was despite using CBR encoding (which the help files say aren't transcoded), having no menu's, and having the transcode target set to "none" (which the help files say aren't transcoded). The end result was the output VOB filesize was 1.24MB smaller than the original. My source in this case was captured from my old Hi8 camcorder, so quality wasn't the best to start with which makes assertaining if there has been any quality loss hard. Even so, what is TMPGEnc DVD Author 2 doing transcoding my files at all? Procoder encodes my project from Edius as a DVD compliant VOB file, and these files burnt to DVD have always worked for me in any DVD player I have put them in. They just lacked menu's, which is the sole reason I parted with my hard earned to get TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.

As I said, I've paid $89USD for this program, and I would dearly love to be proven wrong, but at present IMHO all you've offered is your opinion, and I haven't heard squat from Pegasys support and it has now been nearly 72 hours since I got confirmation that they had recieved my support request.

[laspis59]

I'm now confused again.

What I want to know is why Zoinbergs video takes "45 mins for 22 mins of video"
This is clearly NOT the case for me,if you read my previous message.
Also v1.6 is slower than v2 for me.

I haven't received a reply for the nasty message I sent Peggy/TMPG yet and dont think I will.

[Baldrick]

I could contact my Tmpg Inc advertisement contact person and see if they can talk to the coders.

and I'm gonna test the latest 2.0 and see if it happens here also...

[brashquido]

Hi Luke,

If you use an MPEG2 file as your input, then from what I understand it will transcode your files to VOB. This I can understand. What I can't understand is if I use a DVD compliant VOB file (according to Canopus Procoder) as the source that DVD Author 2 would still transcode it. The source is already a VOB file, why is there a need to transcode it into another VOB file? The fact that the filesizes are different between the source and the output prove that transcoding is going on.

[laspis59]

I have the same concern,but am hoping for an explanation from someone.

Anyway Baldrick the Admin has come to our rescue,I hope.

Thanks in advance Baldrick.

[Baldrick]

Imported a dvd-video from a commercial disc and it doesn't seem to transcode. Took 4 minutes to building track.

Gonna test with some procoder, tmpgenc, mainconcept encoded mpegs.

I'm using version 2.1.9.90 TrialWare.

[laspis59]

Yes I import Commercial DVD Video files (VOB's) and use MainConcept MPEG Encoder or TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 to encode to MPEG2 and import (I like both encoders,they give compliant output)

Like Baldrick found with the DVD-Video,TDA2 is very fast and doesn't take (I keep mentioning it) "45 mins to process 22 mins of video" like Zoinbergs stated at doom9.It takes me about 4 minutes,like it should and with no loss of picture quality.

Surely if it transcoded it would take a lot longer.It's quite obvious Zoinbergs video wasn't complaint.How long does it take you to process the video brashquido?

Edit:I use TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.1.9.90 retail.Oh and I use the PAL format as you should know from my location.

[brashquido]

I'm using a single VOB file which is only about 336MB. With the track settings set to CBR, no menu and transcoding target set to none it takes TMPGEnc DVD Author 1 minute 43 seconds, and the output VOB filesize is 1.24MB smaller than the original. In comparison DVDAuthorGUI authors the same input VOB file without any menu's in 26 seconds and the output VOB is identical in filesize to the original.

[brashquido]

That's interesting, but confusing. If I encode the same Edius video project as above as a MPEG2 program stream (.m2p) using Canopus Procoder, and author it in TMPGEnc DVD Author 2 using the same settings, then the authoring time is slashed to 40 seconds. Although there is still a 1.08MB difference in file size. I'll see what happens using a MPEG2 Elementary stream so I can compare authoring times between TMPGEnc DVD Author 2 and DVDAuthorGUI.

[Baldrick]

No transcoding for a mainconcept mpeg encoded clip, 1.3GB 25min clip took 1:30min to build.

No transcoding for a convertxtodvd dvd, 1.1GB 45min clip took 2min to build.

And you can't compare vob files exact, tmpgenc dvd author remultiplexes it and it may change a bit.

What tmpgenc dvd author version are you using?
Why output vob with procoder if you are going to author with tda?

[oldfart13]

I just did a simple Authoring job using a 4 Gig file from my Panasonic E80H DVD recorder. Importing the VRO into 2.0 gives a warning that it doesn't like this file. No such warning in 1.6. 2.0 will still accept it though despite the warning. I then set the start and end frames, set some chapter points (5 total) and then set to no menu and output to a folder on another drive. Result: 2.0 compile time, 39 minutes. Same file with 1.6 under the same circumstances and the same drives gives a compile time of 7 minutes! I can't account for this. In both cases, I am not editing the video in any way. I'm leaving in the commercials as a test. The computer is a PIII 1 GHz. Perhaps it has to do with the spec on 2.0 saying that it wants a P4 but I've found that it runs just fine on a PIII so long as it detects the SSE chipset. Looks like I'll stick with 1.6 until they get these bugs sorted out....

[oldfart13]

I just did a second test using the Source Wizard since that's what you are supposed to use for input that is from a DVD recorder but the compile times are the same, at about 38 minutes. Just what is causing the terrible increase in compile times I do not know. I'll definitely have to stick with 1.6 now.....

[classfour]

For me, it seems to take longer on a Womble MPEG2VCR import from a .vro file. ProCoder, TDA 1.5, and .vro files renamed to mpg extension take less time.

One item I do check - because the program seems to reset it upon opening, is the quality setting of the imported video in the source section. It usually set the quality to 90% by default: I always check it and move it up to 100%. Even on a final video size greater than 4.7 GB, I do not let TDA re-encode: Set the output to "no compression". If the final DVD files are too large, I use Shrink or Rebuilder to get them to fit on a disc.

[The_Doman]

I just did a simple Authoring job using a 4 Gig file from my Panasonic E80H DVD recorder. Importing the VRO into 2.0 gives a warning that it doesn't like this file. No such warning in 1.6. 2.0 will still accept it though despite the warning.

What warning does it give then?
That might give some clues..

I personally not have encountered those problems with DVD author 2.0 at all.
I only tried the transcode option one time to see how it worked, I did not like the results (shrink does a much better job) so I never used it after.

I just authored a 3,6G video (elementary video and wave streams) to DVD while compressing the audio to AC3, this took 11 minutes with DVD author 2.0.
Pretty normal from a realtive slow USB drive as source...

[oldfart13]

"File bearing a VRO extension cannot be read 'as is'. We advise you to use DVD import function of the Source Wizard. Do you wish to open this file anyway?"

This has no bearing on the compile time though as even when using the Source Wizard, the compile time is 1/5th as fast as using 1.6......

[TBoneit]

oldfart13, why not use the DVD import fucntion of the source wizard? Opening a DVD that would be the right way. It sounds like you are opening the DVD as a file? If so that would be why you are getting the warning.

[laspis59]

And you can't compare vob files exact, tmpgenc dvd author remultiplexes it and it may change a bit.

You see this is a logical explanation for the filesize difference.

I know I was talking crap but thats what I meant when I said "I'm no expert but TDA uses its own algorithm for finalizing the VOB's there's a possibility this is the cause,yeah"

I think VOB finalization with TDA is the process of creating the IFO and BUP files,not quite sure?(I've never looked in the folder when the DVD Files are being created)

But none the less I knew that TDA 2 would probably differ in its method of authoring DVD Files compared to other tools like DVDAuthorGUI,this accounts for the filesize difference

For example if I load a compliant MPEG video file with no sync,GOP size ect... issues into VideoRedo (Which definitely dont transcode) the file size WILL come out different.That isn't to say that VideoReDo is transcoding it and if you check the quality of the source video with the output,there is NO QUALITY LOSS.

All tools obviously have their own way of remultiplexing the video even if compliant.TDA 2 and VideoRedo for example.

If a "Tmpg Inc advertisement contact person" would contact Baldrick or post here,it would clear up this confusion once and for all.

Oh and remember (I know I'm doing it) but there is a difference between transcoding and re-encoding.DVDShrink is a transcoder and TMPGEnc Plus is an encoder.

[laspis59]

I just did a second test using the Source Wizard since that's what you are supposed to use for input that is from a DVD recorder but the compile times are the same, at about 38 minutes. Just what is causing the terrible increase in compile times I do not know. I'll definitely have to stick with 1.6 now.....

Maybe your recorder doesn't follow official standards.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=823711#post823711

Notice:

"- the original source file origin (and by this I don't just mean DVD, but the programs and/or devices used to capture, import, and/or create the MPEG files and DVD files as well. Not all DVD creation programs follow the official standards all the time).

The re-encoding will happen if the program deems it is necessary to conform to the official MPEG-2 standard specifications.

I hope this information helps.

Sincerely,

Paul Marsh
TMPG Technical Support"

Could that be what is causing the terrible increase in rendering time?

Maybe v1.6 dont bother correcting the source video?

[oldfart13]

I did use the Source Wizard for the DVD file on the computer HDD. As far as the program saying it's not up to DVD spec for either the Panasonic or my Liteon, all I can say is that I have had no problems, warnings, slow compile times, etc. with version 1.6. If you feel you can't do without the features in 2.0, go for it. For me doing single episodes of TV series recorded in XP (Panasonic) or HQ (Liteon) and authoring with no menu, it's a waste of time....

[laspis59]

If you feel you can't do without the features in 2.0, go for it. For me doing single episodes of TV series recorded in XP (Panasonic) or HQ (Liteon) and authoring with no menu, it's a waste of time....

Yes I feel I need the features of TMPGEnc DVD Author 2.0.TDA 1.6 doesn't have the extra menu effects and 16:9 features I want which is a complete pain in the backside because I've paid more money and have that annoying internet activation irritation aswell.

If like you oldfart13,I didn't feel the need for the menu features then I wouldn't have upgraded from 1.6 to 2.So I can understand that you are happy with the reliable,tested 1.6 version.

Really I was just trying to find an answer to the longer rendering time you mentioned because of these claims to do with transcoding.

[TBoneit]

oldfart13, in your case I'd say stay with the 1.6

However it does seem as if something is off in the files you are feeding it.

Just as a test what happens if you take one of your files that id already did as a test?

for example after the 38 minute author process what happens if you open the already authored file from 2.0 and re-author to see how long it takes? I'm suspectiong it will be quick as the program has already fixed up any problems it found.

It would be a good test to see have run and see what happens. If it runs fast then you will know something isn't quite right in the DVD recorders files. If it still takes as long, then more thought is needed.

Myself I'm still using 1.5 but thinking of upgrading as I did test the trial version and some features were nice.

[TBoneit]

BTW DVD recorders seem to do things differently as the ones from the two recorders I've used always show two titles on a one title disc.