PCI-E or AGP?

[yoda313]

So which is the better choice? As some will know I'm shopping for a new motherboard. One major choice is to choose between PCI-E or AGP.

Is PCI-E the wave of the future? Or is AGP still serviceable for the next several years?

If I have two motherboards with all things being equal except one has PCI-E and the other has 8x AGP which should I pick?

[redwudz]

PCI-E or some newer types like PCI-E2 will take over, but AGP should be around for a few more years. Development of new AGP cards is mostly ended. The PCI-E interface has a lot more bandwidth that should help with graphics displays.

Looking at the 'big picture', the newer PCI-E motherboards have a lot to offer. They take advantage of improvements in through-flow within the motherboard. The video card is just a small part of the package. There are a few motherboards that use the newer CPUs, such as the XP64 and X2 that still have a AGP port. For AMD, the Nvidia Nforce 4 motherboards only use PCI-E.

Another reason to upgrade is that you should be somewhat 'future proofed' with a PCI-E motherboard. Some of the disadvantages are a PCI-E motherboard has less PCI slots, 3 are common. If you need more PCI devices, then that can be a problem. And of course, you would need a new video card.

In all, I would recommend a PCI-E MB. A lot would depend on the CPU chosen and what you want to do with the computer. (And how much you want to spend. )

[yoda313]

Thanks redwudz.

That's one vote for pci-e.

I don't really need a ton of pci slots. If I get a board with a built in firewire port than I'd need even less pci slots (assuming I ever get a dv camera).

This is upgrading for gaming in mind. Thats why I want to choose wisely.

[ZippyP.]

PCI-E video cards are cheaper, if that makes any difference to you.

[yoda313]

PCI-E video cards are cheaper, if that makes any difference to you.

Really? I wouldn't have guessed that!

[redwudz]

PCI-E video cards are cheaper, if that makes any difference to you.

Some are. A lot aren't. Depends on the specs.

You mentioned gaming. In that case, I would definitely look into a PCI-E motherboard and card. If you have an incredible amount of money to burn, then the upper end Dual SLI cards can do that for you.

But I'll assume you don't want to pay more for the video cards than many computers presently cost. For most of us, the midrange PCI-E video cards will be a big improvement over all but the higher end AGP cards.

EDIT: If you decide on PCI-E, you might want to consider a MB with Dual SLI. You can start out with a single PCI video card and upgrade in the future with a second compatible video card, effectively doubling the power of the video display system.

[jagabo]

There are getting to be fewer and fewer AGP cards and motherboards. If you want something you can upgrade over the next few years the choice is obvious: PCI-E.

[edDV]

The main reason to stay with AGP would be if you own an expensive AGP card now like the AIW-9800. It won't work in a PCI-E board.

[Bodyslide]

I would go with a board that has both, that way you can use your existing AGP card, then upgrade to PCI-E later...

[rallynavvie]

If you decide on PCI-E, you might want to consider a MB with Dual SLI. You can start out with a single PCI video card and upgrade in the future with a second compatible video card, effectively doubling the power of the video display system.

Don't do a fool thing like that. We must band together in the fight against SLI and the gaming industry forcing us to buy two video cards in order to play their stupid games at all. Sure, right now it's about running the latest Quake at 400fps with all graphic options cranked up (which, btw, is about 5 times what most displays can even handle), but what's next?

Game Informer magazine issue from April 2007

...Who ever thought Squaresoft would team up with the likes of Rockstar, Bungie, id, and Ubisoft for the rollout of their next great RPG title. Then again who ever thought that Final Fantasy 13 would have the replayability of the GTA3+ series, the suspense of Doom 4, the mechanics of the Tom Clancy games, and a believable FPS mode for an RPG?And the graphics are like nothing you've ever seen before from a game. Here is finally a game that has something for every gamer at some level. Simply put: if you don't like this game then there's something wrong with you. Of course there are some losers out there who won't be able to meet the game's modest hardware requirements. Needed are two nVidia 8900 GTXs with full X16 pipes, but they've proven their worth on the market already so who hasn't shelled out the $800 each for those cards? Oh and if you haven't you can buy them in pairs for a discounted price of $1500. Don't forget the dedicated PCI physics card from nVidia as well, otherwise those two video cards aren't worth the sand they're made of. You can get away with the GePhysics D2 for this even though Square recommends the D3 card. The D2 is a steal at $300 and can be overclocked to D3 speeds anyway...

And my favorite part:

...In order to participate in the "Arena", the online PvP version of FF13, you simply use your Sony Online Entertainment account to log in and you're in the fracas. Remember that you need an internet connection of at least 3 Mb in order to play without much stutter, and make sure you have a gigabit ethernet controller on your end to speed up gameplay that much more!...

oh man i need something to do

[rallynavvie]

I would go with a board that has both, that way you can use your existing AGP card, then upgrade to PCI-E later...

LOLLERSKATES

[redwudz]

rallynavvie, I agree about dual SLI, it's just that a lot of MBs seem to have it. You want insanity, go for quad SLI. (The quest for more money. )

But for a avid gamer, dual SLI gives more options. Personally, I use a PCI-E Sapphire Radeon X300SE in my PCI-E MB, because I'm cheap and don't care about gaming. But it's nice to have the options.

[whitejremiah]

it's all highly dependant on exactly what your doing with your computer.....right now, im running an ati AIW 9600 card (agp) and its still doing PRETTY good on gaming, no i cant have the settings cranked all the way on some stuff, but then again, it doesnt really make THAT much of a differance to me.......if your a hardcore gamer, i'd go PCI-E....and i did actually almost go the route bodyslide suggested when i did my last set of upgrades, cuz i do eventually intend on switching over to PCI-E........i was looking at an asrock mobo that had AGP and PCI-E

[Morse2]

Hi Yoda 313;

I guess it all comes down to how much "futureproofing" means to you - if you want a future-proofed system, then PCI-e is a must. Mind you, you're not going to notice much diff between AGP and PCI-e, assuming otherwise equivalent vidcards IME (admittedly fairly low to mid-end AGP's and PCI-e's - I'm NOT a gamer).

However, if you want to make SURE that your system is future proofed, then I'd wait until the "chip wars" of the next few months play out a bit prior to plunking down cash on ANY new mobo and chip (and maybe memory). Intel or AMD?

With AMD, unless you already have committed to socket 939 and DDR in a pretty big way, I'd hold off 'til AM2 gets established and test/reviews of the new NForce5 mobos happen.

With Intel, conroe is coming out - and early reports give it a lead over AMD's predicted offerings (it hurts to type that, as I've not bought an Intel since my last 400MHz PII.....and since I DO have a substantial stake in s939's and DDR I'm in the process of upgrading my workstation to a X2 4200+, so no flames from AMD fanboys, please). I'm not an Intel guy, so I can't really advise much past "look into that next-gen stuff" - unless you really really need to do your build now.

Major edit: Just finished the article on AM2 over at Tom's Hardware now that they've actually got AM2's and mobo's. To heck with future proofing, stick with the s939 if you're going AMD! AM2 supports "trusted" computing , offers even less in the way of a performance boost than I'd figured, includes a premium price tag, only the top end chips support 800MHz memory (a MUST if the chip is going to shine...), and you lose one IDE socket to gain 2 SATA's (at least they didn't drop it completely the way Intel is doing on their next gen). Glad I've got a X2 4200+ on the way - my Tyans are going to be getting a workout for years to come, it would appear.

Anyway, go PCI-e and don't worry about the loss of AGP compatability. Unless you're an Intel guy, jump right on in to a last gen s939 and get all your DDR memory now, before production ramps down and costs climb.

Anyway, good luck on whatever chip/mobo/videocard you go with!
All the best,
Morse

[Cobra]

There isn't much difference - nVidia are still releasing top-of-the-line cards for AGP. However, if you want to keep up and not have to replace your graphics card alongside your motherboard (should you upgrade) I would go for PCI-E.

[yoda313]

Are there motherboards with PCI-E AND AGP???? In my early searches I haven't found them. Though I haven't been at it that intently yet.

This is for gaming but I'm not going to be buying the most expensive card just to say I have it. I want to have something newer than my 9250 ati radeon. And I want to be able to upgrade down the road.

If dual AGP/PCI-E motherboards aren't too expensive then I could go that route and buy a moderate agp card now and save up for a kickass PCI-E video card later HELLO EBAY!

[jagabo]

Are there motherboards with PCI-E AND AGP????

http://www.asrock.com/product/939Dual-SATA2.htm

But the only reason you would want to do this is if you just bought a high end AGP card.

This is for gaming but I'm not going to be buying the most expensive card just to say I have it. I want to have something newer than my 9250 ati radeon. And I want to be able to upgrade down the road.

If dual AGP/PCI-E motherboards aren't too expensive then I could go that route and buy a moderate agp card now and save up for a kickass PCI-E video card later :) HELLO EBAY! :D :D

Why not just buy a moderate PCI-E card now? PCI-E cards are cheaper than their AGP counterparts.

[yoda313]

Wow thanks for the link jagabo. I don't know if I want to jump to amd though. I did have a amd athlon 800mhz for awhile but I'm mostly a intel person. But that board has just about everything except an onboard firewire port.

And I'd have to look at pci-e card prices to decide that. Thanks.

[redwudz]

I don't think I would recommend a combo AGP/PCI-E motherboard. Make sure it can use the newer CPUs and has a decent chipset.

For a cheap PCI-E card, you could pick up a Sapphire ATI X300 Series GPU VGA Card for about $50US, then trade it off later when you want to upgrade. http://www.computergate.com/products/item.cfm?prodcd=AVGAS3SE

[yoda313]

you could pick up a Sapphire ATI X300 Series GPU VGA Card for about $50US, then trade it off later when you want to upgrade.

What is the x series ranges? The last I am familar with is the 9xxx series for ati.

[TheFamilyMan]

For what its worth (my advice):

Don't bother with a mobo that has both AGP and PCI-e. In the end you'll have a slot that doesn't do you any good, and the models I've seen only supported 8x for the PCI-e slot. There are lots of very good gaming PCI-e gaming cards in the $100-200 range. Don't look back, and don't bother with SLI or crossfire boards, I'm sorry I did. I'll probably never use that second PCI-e slot, so its just a lost PCI slot as far as I'm concerned. I think there is never the right time to upgrade, its just a matter of how badly you need a new rig and how much you are willing to pay for it. Deals can be had if you watch the market, so patience can be rewarded (I could have saved $100 on my CPU if I waited 6 months, but I had this money burning a hole in my pocket and my wife's blessing to spend it )

[redwudz]

There are a bunch of the ATI chipset cards. I have the X300 in my XP64 computer. I don't game, and I don't use it except for display. It's definitely a low end card for PCI-E, but it does what I want. Here's a link to the same site as above with some other ATI chipset cards and a few Nvidia chipset cards.

http://www.computergate.com/products/category.cfm?prodseq=C2

[yoda313]

Thanks for the link redwudz.

[jagabo]

I have an inexpensive X300 card in one of my computers too. It's the bottom of the last ATI series (current series is X1x00). Works fine for everything except games (3D). It's hard to find benchmarks of low end cards but I suspect the X300 is similar in performance to your 9250.

[rallynavvie]

Funny thing is that most of the current crop of AGP cards are using a bridge chip to convert from PCI architecture to AGP anyway, that's why you often see the AGP versions of video cards running slightly less performance than the PCI-E variants, not because AGP is older architecture. We aren't even pushing the bandwidth of 8x AGP with the latest offerings. Now I'm not sure what the hell a ULi chipset is like on that Assrock board but it's a freakshow if it natively supports both interfaces. I'm guessing it uses a bridge chip to convert an AGP card to PCI-E architecture. So if you get a newer AGP card and put it in that slot it would be converting from PCI-E to AGP and then back to PCI-E again. Brilliant

If you're after an Intel PCI-E board make sure to get a good Intel chipset. There are rumors saying the 975 chipset is a PCI-E equivalent of the powerful 875 chipset so that may be worth a shot. It's too bad the nForce chipsets for Intel are all SLI. But you don't have to use that other x16 slot for a video card, but I don't think just anything will fit in there.