Capture card for unique situation

[yasha3055]

I have a relatively weak laptop, Toshiba Sattellite with a Celeron processor, 256 MB, running XP Home SP1, and only about 20 GB of space left. I am a college student and I live in a house with several other people and only one tv(with standard cable). I don't normally watch a lot of TV so this isn't a problem for me. But I am also a huge soccer fan and this summer of course is the World Cup in Germany. Because of the time difference most of the games will be on when I am at work, and I am the only soccer fan in the house, so I am trying to figure out the best way to record games so that I can either watch them on the one tv in my house, watch on my computer if I have to, or take the games somewhere else. A friend sold me an old external DVD burner, and now I just need a capture card that will:

1) work well with my crappy computer

2) have very reliable DVR software. There are 3-4 games played every day, and for the most part they will be switching channels between ESPN, ESPN 2 and ABC so I need to be able to program it to record and then switch channels later.

3) allow me to record games on two channels simultaneously (there are never more than 2 games being played at the same time)

4) allow me to connect my computer to the TV (a pretty nice 42" HD-ready screen, it has s-video input)

5) allow me to make dvd's of games so I can take them to other people's houses and also use them with a soccer team I coach for training, also so I can clear the games off my hard drive. I have access to a lot of different dvd-authoring software, so that wouldn't be a problem

6) obviously I want the quality to be as high as possible, especially when I watch a game on the tv (either from a dvd or straight from the computer)

7) if possible, somthing that can record in high def and then later display them on the tv. All the games will be in HD: I know I can't get the ESPN/2 games in HD because we don't have the service from Comcast, but as I understand it we could potentially get the ABC games in HD through our cable if we had an HD reciever, and presumably a comptuer's tv-tuner could do this. Of course I may be totally wrong about this.

I realize that this is probably a big list of demands and there may not be a capture card that will do everything I want, and if there is it's probably very expensive. The price is important to me but right now I am mostly just interested in whether or not there is a card that can do all this. If not, the most important features to me will be #1, 2, 4, and 5 from my list.

So does anybody have any suggestions? I've been looking around and have a few ideas in mind but I usually don't trust the specs listed by a product so I would be grateful for any opinions based on experience or expertise. Of course if I can upgrade my computer in some way to allow me to use a better card that would be a helpful suggestion as well. Thanks!

[classfour]

While I wouldn't recommend a low-end dvd recorder: I feel some might wouln't make it through the world cup - I would recommend a dvd recorder that will record on media that is readable on the Toshiba. Many excellent machines can be had on ebay for less than $100. Some lite-ons can record on cheaper CD media (you'd have to have someone change out discs to get through that time period, though).
JVC, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony are better machines - can't rule out others, as I haven't experienced them. If a match is 2 hours long, recording 4 per day, any dvd recorder may have such poor resolution that you're just as well off recording at VCD resolution on the laptop as far as viewablility goes. If budget weren't an issue, a dvd recorder with hard drive would certainly work well.

With the limited space on the hard drive on the laptop, capturing at dvd resolution might be difficult - but lower bitrates such as VCD or SVCD might work. I capture at 720X480 on a media PC, and usually use about 2GB of hard drive space per hour of recording.

You pretty much have to reserve an equal amount of hard drive space for authoring to DVD, so you should keep the volume used for recording to under 8 or 9 GB to keep from crashing the machine when working with the video. Also, remember, laptop hard drives spin at a lower RPM than desktop equivalents - but still generate heat inside the chasis (along with the processor) when doing heavy video work. If the machine is weak, it might crash on high resolution captures - so VCD might work better if that is the case.

[classfour]

Ooops - BTW: for VCD bitrate captures, I have - and have used - an ancient Irez Capsure device. The drivers and software were a pain, but it did capture at VCD resolution without crashing the machine. I do know that many low end USB capture devices aren't very popular over in the capture card forum.

[edDV]

I stopped reading at "(a pretty nice 42" HD-ready screen, it has s-video input)" so now a few questions.

Are you on cable? I assume so since ESPN and ESPN2 are mentioned. If so can't you get the world cup from multiple sources in several languages?

Why don't you subscribe to the cable DVR for that month? Most will record 2CH.

RE: your Celeron Notebook: What kind of Celeron? Define the computer better. Sounds doubtful.

[yasha3055]

Getting a dvr from the cable company is something I've looked into, but there are a lot of reasons why it isn't a great option. For what I need, being able to get the games on my computer is more important than being able to watch them on the big tv. But if I could get them on that tv it would be a bonus.

I've also thought about getting a dvd-recorder, and my worry has been exactly what classfour pointed out, getting someone to change discs for me as well as being able to program it in general (do they let you make complicated recording schedules that involve a lot of switching channels?)

My computer has a Celeron 2.7 GHz. What is most important to me is just being able to record games to my computer. There are a few unused cable hookups in the house which I can use for this purpose, I just need some way to get them on my computer and software that will allow me to program the schedule. I have limited space, but I plan on watching the games the same day or very close to the same day (if I watch the next days games, it will be impossible to avoid finding out the scores of the previous days games because the commentators will talk about them and they will show highlights and the bottom-line will probably list scores. Some games I'll still watch even if I know the score, but still I want to watch as many as possible without knowing the outcome) So my plan was to record and watch the games I want to see (which will be pretty much all of them), burn them to dvd's overnight, then in the morning erase them from the hard drive and set the schedule for the new day. I have been looking at USB boxes like Win-tv, and that's what I'll probably get if my computer is good enough to use them.

[edDV]

"What is most important to me is just being able to record games to my computer."

Why the computer? To get ESPN2 in most markets you need the cable box anyway.

2.7GHz Celeron isn't the problem. Just sign up for cable DVR service. You can cancel it after the world cup.

Are you in jail or something?

[yasha3055]

The biggest reason is that the only time I'll have to watch is later in the evenings, and with several other people in the house, plus the fact that the tv belongs to someone else, I'll have a hard time convincing everybody else in the house to watch 6 hours of soccer every night for a month. Plus I will be doing some travelling during this time period and I want to be able to take my laptop and watch games. My original thought was just to buy a tv with a vcr, but then I had the idea that since I have a laptop I can probably make a tv out of it for less money and it would suit my needs better anyway. And like I said, I really want to be able to put the games on DVD, because I coach soccer and I want to use the games to teach my players certain fundamentals.

No I'm not in jail, I'm a college student (if I were in jail, it would probably be easier for me to watch the World Cup! Maybe the solution is for me to commit a crime ).

[Richard_G]

I don't think any capture device will let you record two different channels simultaneously, so from that aspect alone, you are looking in the wrong direction. I would say the only way you are going to be able to do what you want is to record with a HDD equipped DVD recorder. If you then use a cheap external TV unit (such as a Dazzle or similar) you'll be able to watch on your laptop. Also, assuming your laptop has a DVD drive, you'll be able to watch recorded games no matter where you are. Using a recorder with HDD means you won't have to worry about changing discs either.

[edDV]

The good thing about the cable DVR approach is you can rent the box for about $10/mo, plug it into the cable system separate from the rest of the house*, program it for dual channel unattended recording and then later dump the games you need to your laptop for watching and DVD recording.

After you are done return the box. If the house is already subscribed to the channels you want, it may only cost you $10.
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300.htm

You will need a capture device (S-Video+audio) for use with the laptop. If you can afford it, I'd go with a hardware encoder something like the Hauppauge PVR USB2. It will get the job done and can be easily resold. Software encoding on a laptop probably won't cut it and you wouldn't want to waste the time.
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvrusb2.html

*assuming the channels you want are in the cable subscription.

[Bjs]

Simplest method would be to buy a hd tuner device for the laptop , check out avermedia , best quality capture only let down by cut down version of the full blown software .

Leave laptop on , but screen can be off , disable all power saving feature's when recording in batch unattended mode (can set task manager to shut down laptop after recordings have been done) .

Buy a quality rf cable splitter (gose between antenna and hd tuner in house) , and enough high quality cable to extend from rf splitter to your room (and down the wall) , plus wall socket mount + cable to extend to current work space in room (where you wont trip over it) .

It's also the easiest to setup and understand when thing's dont work right ... easy to trouble shoot .

Any other method will cost you more in money ...

[edDV]

Only problem with that is most of the schedule is only available over cable TV here in the USA.

Per soccerTV®.com
"World Cup 2006

Updated May 3, 2006

All 64 matches of FIFA World Cup 2006 will be televised in the US LIVE or via short tape-delay in the US in English, Spanish, German, Farsi, and Korean.

Soccer United Marketing (SUM), the marketing arm of Major League Soccer (MLS), will present all 64 matches LIVE in English, with no commercial interruptions during play.

ABC will air 12 games, ESPN will air 21 games, and ESPN2 will air 31 games, in both standard definition and high definition (Some cable and satellite TV operators charge extra for ABC HD, ESPN HD, and ESPN2 HD).

Univision Communications will broadcast 56 games live on Univision and 8 games live on TeleFutura, all in Spanish, with no commercial interruptions during play, in standard definition ONLY.

Setanta Sports has acquired US and Canadian TV rights in over a dozen languages, and will air all 64 games, with 56 games live and 8 games via short tape-delay, with German commentary, on Setanta Sports USA in standard definition.

Setanta has sublicensed US and Canadian TV rights in Farsi to Iranian-American broadcaster Tapesh TV, which will launch its satellite-delivered sports channel T3 Time via the Globecast satellite TV platform in time for the start of FIFA World Cup 2006. T3 Time will air all 64 matches in Farsi, with 56 matches live and 8 matches via short tape-delay.

KBS World, a Korean-language subscription channel available via DISH Network satellite TV and digital cable in some areas (such as parts of Los Angeles), will have 56 games live and 8 games via short tape-delay, in standard definition. "


So, only 12 games will be available OTA in English (more in Spanish). The bulk of the games will be only over cable. Local cable channel assignments differ but ESPN2 and most foreign language requires a cable box.

[Beavis]

I've also thought about getting a dvd-recorder, and my worry has been exactly what classfour pointed out, getting someone to change discs for me as well as being able to program it in general (do they let you make complicated recording schedules that involve a lot of switching channels?)

Probably no problem with a complicated recording schedule (though you can't do two recordings simultaneously), but for your problem (and sports recording in general), the limited space per blank disc is a problem. The only good way to get around this, particularly with unattended recording is with a recorder that has a built-in hard drive.... but now you're talking more money.... quite a bit more.

A WinTV PVR card that has a hardware MPEG encoder built in will work just fine with your system. I have an old WinTV PVR-250 PCI card that records on an old 400 Mhz PC. You will have to look and see what options are available for the laptop.... I am not up to speed on that part of it.

[jman98]

You don't have enough disk space to do high def captures. You need to give that idea up right now.

Given your disk space, your only realistic option would be to make VCDs or SVCDs. Yes, you will not get DVD quality, but you will at least be able to do it.

Can you even add a PCI capture card to your laptop? I'm certainly not a laptop expert, so I have no idea. Hauppauge makes some very nice PCI based capture cards, such as the PVR-250, that have a chip on the card to do hardware encoding. This removes the pressure of your CPU for the encoding. The quality of the Hauppague cards is superb in my opinion. I'm not a big fan of USB based capture solutions. Should you have to go that route, do some test captures first and consider doing VCD/SVCD as I suggested earlier.

[yasha3055]

Okay here's a new wrinkle. There's another computer on my network with tons of hard drive space, and I can use that temporarily. Does any of the available PVR software (such as Beyond TV or VirtualVCR) allow you to record directly to another computer? Or would I be able to copy the files over and then delete them from my hard drive?

I've been doing a ton of research, and it seems to me that what will work best is a USB tuner with hardware encoding. It seems that the Hauppauge one is the most popular and gets the best reviews (from this site and others). That is what I'll probably end up getting. However, none of the Hauppauge USB tuners seem to have an s-video out, like several of their PCI tuners do. Are there any USB tuners that have an s-video out? I can't seem to find one, or at least one that advertises this feature in any way. But if there were one and it did high-quality capturing and hardware encoding, that would probably be my best option (as well as allowing me to dump the files onto another computer).

[edDV]

Two questions:

What is your need for S-Video out on the tuner?

What will be the source for your recordings? Only analog cable?

[yasha3055]

1) To be able to watch games from time to time on a bigger tv. I plan on watching most games on my computer, but sometimes I will be able to watch them on the bigger tv in my house, and also I will be visiting family for a week during the tournament (who have regular analog cable as well) and I want to be able to take my computer and record and watch games there, as well as use their bigger tv to watch recorded games.

2) Yes, analog cable will be the only source (unless my relatives have upgraded since the last time I visted, but I doubt it). But regular analog cable is all I have at my house.