captureing video on PC, transferable to Mac later?

[freeflier77]

if i use my current crapper of a PC to capture video clips for a future project that will be done on a Mac, can i transfer those clips onto my Mac without much trouble? thanks in advance.

Alex

[edDV]

Sure what format?

[freeflier77]

i havent started pulling clips yet. i have gone through 12 mini DV tapes and highlighted the clips i want to pull. im a computer newbie pretty much. im aiming for a high quality dvd as the end result. what format do i need to use on my PC to easily transfer later to a Mac?

[terryj]

FIRST, WHY EVEN:
include the PC in the equation?
Is the machine used to preview the mini dv tapes,
( camera, deck) have FW/1394 output?
if so, why not hook directly to the mac and use
iMovie ( bundled free with all macs) to bring in the clips?

Otherwise, you'll need to capture all the clips to DV,
on the PC using a compatible external HD setup as FW
to transfer things over easily to avoid data corruption,
and maintain high quality....

capture on the mac, edit on the mac.
follow the KISS theory, my friend...

[freeflier77]

FIRST, WHY EVEN:
include the PC in the equation?
Is the machine used to preview the mini dv tapes,
( camera, deck) have FW/1394 output?

i would go directly to the Mac if i had one. sorry for the confusion. i currently have a PC but i am in the market for a Mac for video editing. i would like to get started going through and capturing clips which at the moment can only be done on my PC.

[edDV]

FIRST, WHY EVEN:
include the PC in the equation?
Is the machine used to preview the mini dv tapes,
( camera, deck) have FW/1394 output?
if so, why not hook directly to the mac and use
iMovie ( bundled free with all macs) to bring in the clips?

Otherwise, you'll need to capture all the clips to DV,
on the PC using a compatible external HD setup as FW
to transfer things over easily to avoid data corruption,
and maintain high quality....

capture on the mac, edit on the mac.
follow the KISS theory, my friend...

Obviously terryj was unable to read your question.

Lets try to describe your project before jumping to conclusions. Good to know the format is DV. DV format is standard across platforms but there are file wrapper issues.

So, you need to use a PC to select clips but no MAC available. You want to transfer the clips to the PC HDD. Then what? How many minutes to hours are we taking about? Are the PC and MAC machines networked? Can you take the HDD over to the MAC? Can you take the camcorder over to the MAC? What software are you using on the PC and MAC?

Describe in more detail why you need to do this.

PS: I was writing this while you posted. Same questions need to be answered to get to recommedations.

[freeflier77]

Ok. i have hours and hours of mini DV tape. id like to start pulling clips and storing them on my PC's hard drive. if i have an ass load of clips(im talking at least 2 hours that will be cut down at a later date) on a PC hard drive, what is going to be required to get these clips onto a new Mac. most likely a macbook. im using an older Ulead software to pull video off my camera via firewire. the Mac has not been purchased yet. it may bee a few weeks until i can purchase one....this is why id like to get started just getting video onto a hard drive to work with later. thanks for the help guys.

Alex

[edDV]

Ok. i have hours and hours of mini DV tape. id like to start pulling clips and storing them on my PC's hard drive. if i have an ass load of clips(im talking at least 2 hours that will be cut down at a later date) on a PC hard drive, what is going to be required to get these clips onto a new Mac. most likely a macbook. im using an older Ulead software to pull video off my camera via firewire. the Mac has not been purchased yet. it may bee a few weeks until i can purchase one....this is why id like to get started just getting video onto a hard drive to work with later. thanks for the help guys.

Alex

OK. Are you sure it's only two hours of clips? Sure you aren't tossing good stuff?

I was expecting a 100 hour or more library.

For two hours the answer is simple. Capture and edit down on the PC HDD, then record back with no loss to the camcorder and save on DV tape.

Or, just wait until you get your MAC. Write down the clip timecodes to speed capture next time.

In either case, when you get the MAC, just capture the clips from tape normally.

If you want further help, identify your "ULEAD" software including version.

[rumplestiltskin]

The Mac (iMovie, in this example) understands DV-Stream. Do not capture nor save your footage on your PC in any other format or you will be sacrificing quality -or- making things very difficult for yourself later on down the line. That does not necessarily mean "full quality" because we don't necessarily know what that might mean to Ulead.

As long as you can get the footage from the camcorder as DV-Stream without any dropped frames, you'll be OK to then transfer it.

However, remember that the DV-Stream footage takes up about 15GB/hour so your PC's HD needs to be NTFS in order to avoid the 2GB(?) file limit (which would break the file automatically I presume). I am not sure how your PC would break the incoming footage; would iMovie be able to read such a "broken" file? (Probably would but...)

Earlier versions of iMovie would break footage during capture into 2GB chunks automatically and, in fact, had a 2GB limit for file import. I believe v5 and v6 no longer have that limit.

I do hope you'll have at least 100mb Ethernet to do the transfer of the captured footage!

Good luck and welcome to OSX.

[edDV]

Sheesh, just how clueless has the MAC world become.

I held my tongue with terryj, but I can't believe this nonsense.

Yes, capture in DV format. He already said that. DV format can be moved from PC to Unix to mars and back with no quality loss.

Dissing ULead only exposes your own ignorance. We know you don't know anything about ULead because you are on a MAC.

The NTFS comment is valid for pre XP machines but the risk is the capture will stop at 2 or 4 GB. Data won't be lost. At least you admitted the MAC did the same thing back then. Oh well, you are forgiven.

My beef is with the clueless yuppie MAC snobs that insist on inserting a MAC into a say an Adobe corporate PC environment. Next they whine about MAC's inability to read or write to DV-AVI and think somebody else needs to make the conversion. Big houses will make the conversion through video networked servers with no problem.

Apple has a 3% share but didn't include DV-AVI import/export. Why should an Adobe house system administrator give a clueless MAC snob the time of day? I'll answer that for you. "Take your job to a service bureau and bill yourself.

Unfortunately, Apple is saying just that to PC users that want to buy a MAC.

[terryj]

Sheesh, just how clueless has the MAC world become.

I held my tongue with terryj, but I can't believe this nonsense.

Ed. don't hold your tounge pal.
if you can't swallow it, spit what's out of your mouth.
daddy won't get mad...

Being whiny and insulting doesn't endear us to you...
we're all men (and women) here, so speak up...

Yes, capture in DV format. He already said that. DV format can be moved from PC to Unix to mars and back with no quality loss.

Dissing ULead only exposes your own ignorance. We know you don't know anything about ULead because you are on a MAC.

The NTFS comment is valid for pre XP machines but the risk is the capture will stop at 2 or 4 GB. Data won't be lost. At least you admitted the MAC did the same thing back then. Oh well, you are forgiven.

And PC Zealots don't know much about Macs, in most cases.
Your point being...?


As for your "terryj didn't read" comment,
My own post, AS I READ THE ORIGINAL POST:

if i use my current crapper of a PC to capture video clips for a future project that will be done on a Mac

Not much NOT to read in that. He didn't mention AT THE TIME that he DIDN'T have
or owned a mac, just asked if his clips coould be transfered without much trouble.
My suggestion, AND STILL IS, is since the end result is/was to be
compostited on a Mac, why include the PC in the first place?
Just follow KISS and do EVERYTHING on the mac.
No muss, no fuss.

My beef is with the clueless yuppie MAC snobs that insist on inserting a MAC into a say an Adobe corporate PC environment. Next they whine about MAC's inability to read or write to DV-AVI and think somebody else needs to make the conversion. Big houses will make the conversion through video networked servers with no problem.

Apple has a 3% share but didn't include DV-AVI import/export. Why should an Adobe house system administrator give a clueless MAC snob the time of day? I'll answer that for you. "Take your job to a service bureau and bill yourself.

Unfortunately, Apple is saying just that to PC users that want to buy a MAC.

While you may have a bug up your a$$ ( or whichever inantimate object gets you in a tither)
NO ONE HERE, deserves your venom against "Mac Yuppies" or what you
precieve as "Mac Snobs". I'm sure we don't post in your forum any venom to
"excite" you, so why burn your [collective] cross here?

The FACTS are simply this:

1. Apple has built its NLE architecture around Quicktime;
wisely so, they own the standard.

2. Apple has no interest in a subcontainer format like AVI,
which can contain a myriad of possible valid streams
within its container wrapper, because Apple has avested
interest in making their software and hardware more in line
with technologies that it has itself invested in, such as
those posed by the MPEG group, and transport structures
such as MP4. That is why .avi files will always remain
"NON NATIVE" on a mac. By non native, I mean the comparison between say how
only an .avi file that contains a WMV video and mpeg-3 audio streams cannot be
played natively in Quicktime, like an .Mp4 or a .Mov.

3. Except for File Sharing Communities, .avi has no real world
value. .Avi tends to over iinflate xvid and divx streams within
them, and avi, without hacks, has no support natively for
subtitles. Last I looked, Mp4 does....and Apple supports MP4.
Comparison of Containter formats

4. If a Mac user wants to create an .avi to file share with his buddies or whatnot,
he can do so rather easily, but will be limited in what he can put
into it , stream's wise, so no DV-AVI will not EVER happen. But why should it?
If you need to put something into DV, just export natively from Quicktime as DV.
Why wrap it in a useless container? oh that's right, so the other 97% of
the planet can download it from their warez sites and play it in the bargin
basement player that is Windows Media Player, without resorting to thinking
about how to handle the file.

[Cornucopia]

Let's take a step back from the precipice, boys.

terryj > I'm pretty sure edDV has happily worked with quite a number of Macs as well as PC's, and while he went a litttle medieval, his gripe was for tunnel-visioned zealots of the Mac type (and yes there are those same of the PC type as well). You got baited. You also responded with the type of FUD that edDV was complaining about.

#1- No need to diss AVI. While it is a container format with mild limitations, these have mainly been imposed by Microsoft's hedgemony attitude. It is NOT a "sub"-container format. It is often used daily in many production houses around the world (including right here). It had file limitations, once. OpenDML changed that. It "supports" many formats and types of streams, just doesn't "officially endorse" as many certain ones as QT does. This mainly has to do with M$ moving on to ASF/WMV as container of choice. Those "hacks" are only hacks because they haven't been sanctioned, again mainly because M$ thinks it's long in the tooth and have their sights on other horizons.

#2- I do QT --> AVI --> QT --> AVI day in day out, without any loss. DV isn't a problem. Don't say it is. You just need the right tools. See some of my previous posts on the subject.


OP > Read some of my posts on Mac <--> PC transfer of DV material, or PM me for some answers.

Scott

[rumplestiltskin]

terryj,

Thanks for handling the bozo. I'm not sure what it was about my not knowing about Ulead's capabilities that edDV took to mean "dissing".

As you've noted, "DV" may mean many things to many people (and, certainly, to Microsoft) but, to iMovie, it means "DV-Stream". There is a difference; get it wrong and you'll have screwy proportions or reduced quality when iMovie has to import and transcode (or resize). Even Mac programmers get it wrong. There's a great titling app (whose name escapes me at the moment) that exports in DV but not DV-Stream so doing wide-screen work yields incorrect proportions and requires a little extra "open & export again" through QT Pro.

If freeflier has other questions and would prefer not to have inane commentary from the peanut gallery, contact me offline.

[edDV]

"And PC Zealots don't know much about Macs, in most cases.
Your point being...?
rolleyes.gif "

My point being I am an AAPL investor* and I think they are too happy with their 15 year declining market share. They used to work better with others but this secret handshake DV file transfer business is just silly. When your company has 3% share you deal with the environment as it is.

I should have sold at $75. They can only hold on to this IPod spike for so long.

* actually Apple was once an investor in my company. My company has been an Apple product developer in the past and I've been a MAC user since the MAC II. I've held on to some stock for old times sake but question the seriousness of their business plan to re-enter the consumer market.

[edDV]

terryj, rumplestiltskin

My only beef with y'all is you didn't directly offer help. "Get a Mac" just doesn't cut it. If you noticed, I included the "wait for the Mac." option.

His question was how to get a DV file off a PC HDD to a Mac. I was going to suggest:

1. Recording back to DV tape.
2. Network file transfer with conversion at either end.
3. IEEE-1394 direct DV stream transfer.

terryj

1. Quicktime was as much a Radius (plus others) invention as Apple but it just isn't working for cross platform. Much of this has to do with the complete failure of Quicktime for Windows.

2. Apple needs to offer free import/export to PC with no question. Inside the Mac environment they can pretend to rule the world. Apple is a user of MPeg4. Even the evil MSFT has more claim as a developer in the MPeg4 space.

"NON NATIVE" it may be but DV-AVI should be a supported for import/export. You are free to hold your nose.

3. Since when does anyone care about subtitles in DV format. DV is a production format.

4. "If a Mac user wants to create an .avi to file share with his buddies or whatnot, ... so no DV-AVI will not EVER happen. But why should it? ... Why wrap it in a useless container?"

Not even for his client or employer?

Peace.

[terryj]

I'm gonna let this die in the sake of the fact that we are going
where the OP never wanted to go.

Again, Ed, sorry you don't agree with my "offer" of helping.
from the OP's post he's a newbie.
No shame in that...my solution is very very KISS,
as his end result IS authoring on the mac.

Wait and do it all on the mac is and will be my answer,
rather than drag him through the mud of two OS's ,
limitations on each's NLE architecture, wrappers vs. streams, etc.

What's simply wrong with the road less traveled?
*shrugs*

As for "why does anyone care about subtitles in DV format?"
Your clients/employers care about avi, my two non English
speaking Latino customers care about understanding their
project, so Spanish subtitles doing pre-production dallies
to make sure the intent of the edit matches the intent of
what is being spoken ( in English) on screen matters
a great deal, as an example for you.
tit for Tat.

And as for #2,
when M$ opens their DRM in WMV/A3 to Mac users,
your #2 will happen.
So we both have as much chance of that happening
now don't we?

The more each company "shores up" something that they
are good at, the more you will see "you can do this, but it won't
[work/open/import/transfer] to [brand of computer maker's]
[NLE software package/computer/media player hardware/software],
because of [insert lame excuse of why said company is
better/evil/not evil/out to dominate the world].

the 1990's have never left, they have been here all along.
*shrugs*

It's go time, and the largest share at stake is the Consumer's
pocket. Everybody has their game face on, and more of
"why can't I do this, this doesn't help me in pre/post production"
will continue, because the bigger picture of the Consumer battle
takes precedent on HOW WELL EVERYBODY PLAYS IN THE
SANDBOX of digital content, video and audio.
;-p

I'm out to get coffee.
good morning to all.

[markatisu]

I dont know all the techinal jargon but I will say that I had a friend who has a PC and he gave me 33 DVDs of DV files he captures on it and I was able to import them into Final Cut Pro just fine and export them for use in Apple DVD Studio Pro

So to me the simple answer is yes you can transfer PC captured video to the Mac later but I think it all depends on how the video was saved

[lordsmurf]

This question has had a simple answer all along: Capture on the PC, transfer to the Mac, it'll be fine. There should be no trouble transferring files across a network in OS X, and the AVI files should read just fine in modern versions of FCP.

There is not need to wait if you want to do it now. What you propose should be fine.