vhs - monochrome

[kr236rk]

hi,

i need some black & white vhs footage for a project. there do not appear to be any filters i can use on my vhs cam. someone suggested i film in colour then transfer the footage via an s-video plug, with the chrominance pin removed? i have tried this, but removing the pin (the fourth pin) seems to disable the connection entirely?

can anybody help, please?



thanks

[Cobra]

If you are going to be putting the file on to your PC and converting it, you could always use a VirtualDub filter ("greyscale" - "rips the colour out of your video") or something similar. Basically, film in colour and then deal with making it greyscale once it is on your PC.

[kr236rk]

If you are going to be putting the file on to your PC and converting it, you could always use a VirtualDub filter ("greyscale" - "rips the colour out of your video") or something similar. Basically, film in colour and then deal with making it greyscale once it is on your PC.

thanks Cobra - yes, Vdub is great, i use it for other projects: but i wanted to have a go at achieving this in analogue, i like to mix analogue + dv to get effects; i know that folks unintentionally end up with b/w analogue video effects (via s-video), but i cannot intentionally achieve this result ...

[davideck]

i have tried this, but removing the pin (the fourth pin) seems to disable the connection entirely?

Is it possible that you removed pin 3 instead?

[kr236rk]

i have tried this, but removing the pin (the fourth pin) seems to disable the connection entirely?

Is it possible that you removed pin 3 instead?

hi,

well the pins go - looked at as an 'n' shape

4 3
2 1

or looked at as a 'u' or 'v' shape

1 2
3 4

and i removed the '4'

have you tried this and did it work, please?

[davideck]

Here is a diagram of the Female connector. It matches your description.
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/av/svideo.html

But note that the Male pins on the cable will be horizontally mirrored when you look at them. Pin 4 will be on the right ('n' shape).

I have not tried this.

[kr236rk]

... note that the Male pins on the cable will be horizontally mirrored when you look at them. Pin 4 will be on the right ('n' shape).

! the earlier diagram i was sent (nother forum) showed this exact configuration of numbered pins and called itself "4 pin svideo plug", whereas you explain that the plug pins are going to mirror what are actually the svideo sockets?

in which case i did remove pin 3! [lol]

just out of interest - what effect would removing pin 3, be likely to be, please?

many thanks,

[davideck]

Removing pin 3 removes the luminance and the sync signals. A video signal will not be detected without these components. It will effectively disable the connection entirely as you earlier stated.

[kr236rk]

Removing pin 3 removes the luminance and the sync signals. A video signal will not be detected without these components. It will effectively disable the connection entirely as you earlier stated.

anyone want a dud adaptor? - one gung-ho owner

lol

thanks - least i know where i went wrong!

will update

[guns1inger]

My old geforce had an s-video connection and come with a wierd s-video to RCA adapter. If this is plugged into a standard RCA video in, you loose the luminance and get a nice, clean b&w signal.

[kr236rk]

My old geforce had an s-video connection and come with a wierd s-video to RCA adapter. If this is plugged into a standard RCA video in, you loose the luminance and get a nice, clean b&w signal.

kool!

any chance of identifying this, please - i could pick it up on eBay?

[SingSing]

These are the signals on the s-video connector.

1 Y ground
2 C ground
3 Y (luminance+sync)
4 C (chrominance)

To combine 3 and 4 into composite in color, wired signal 4 into 3 thru a series capacitor, and use short 1 and 2 together, composite and ground.

If you want just Black and White, I assume you can use just pin3 and pin1 as ground.

Note : The NTSC is designed to be backward compatible to B/W system, with chrominance encoded on a seperate subcarrier during broadcast.

[guns1inger]

The cable has a standard s-video connection at one end, and a standard RCA at the other. It is about 8 inches long. I can't find a part number, but it gets mention about halfway down this page

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/gf2leadtekmx200/index.html

[kr236rk]

Here is a diagram of the Female connector. It matches your description.
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/av/svideo.html

But note that the Male pins on the cable will be horizontally mirrored when you look at them. Pin 4 will be on the right ('n' shape).

hi,

i have totally removed the corresponding pin on another connector, as per diagram/instructions - and guess what? - i get a full colour image again!

aaaaaaaaaaagh!



what i cannot understand is - how can removing one pin from a 4 pin plug (loss of 25% transmission) have no effect on the screen image?

what is going on, please?

bests,

[kr236rk]

These are the signals on the s-video connector.

1 Y ground
2 C ground
3 Y (luminance+sync)
4 C (chrominance)

If you want just Black and White, I assume you can use just pin3 and pin1 as ground.

thanks - does this mean i need to remove pin 2, as well?

bests,

[kr236rk]

The cable has a standard s-video connection at one end, and a standard RCA at the other. It is about 8 inches long. I can't find a part number, but it gets mention about halfway down this page

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/gf2leadtekmx200/index.html

yep,

S-Video extender;
S-Video-to-RCA adapter

hmm, i wonder what's different about these s-video plugs and the ones i'm experimenting with now?

thanks,

[oldandinthe way]

Just for the record, the Sima GoDVD videostabilizer commonly used to bypass MV has a setting to convert image to black and white. Composite and Svideo inputs and outputs.

[The_Doman]

What a mess this thread is......

What kind of equipment are you exactly planning to connect with each other?? (camcorder? VCR?, S-Video?, Composite?)

Normally if you connect a COMPOSITE source signal to the luninance connection of a S-Video input you get a nice Black/white image.

This often happens when people are using S-Video (in combination with scart) connections when their source does NOT support S-Video but only composite.

[kr236rk]

What a mess this thread is......

What kind of equipment are you exactly planning to connect with each other?? (camcorder? VCR?, S-Video?, Composite?)

Normally if you connect a COMPOSITE source signal to the luninance connection of a S-Video input you get a nice Black/white image.

This often happens when people are using S-Video (in combination with scart) connections when their source does NOT support S-Video but only composite.

ok, here's the lowdown -

i have run an rca cable from an M10 vhs cam, to an rca/s-video converter.

the s-video plug end of the converter goes into an s-video socket, in a two-way scart, set to 'input'.

the scart is plugged into a vcr, which is in turn hooked up to a crt tv screen

i switch the cam to play mode, and i see the vhs tape playing on the crt, in colour.

i remove the chrominance pin from the s-video plug, and i still see the video in colour!

what i want is to see/re-record the vhs tape in black and white, for a project.

but how to get there, please?

bests,

[kr236rk]

Just for the record, the Sima GoDVD videostabilizer commonly used to bypass MV has a setting to convert image to black and white. Composite and Svideo inputs and outputs.

hi, when you say "a setting", is this something integral to Sima GoDVD videostabilizer, or could you 'plug it into' other equipment, please?

[The_Doman]

ok, here's the lowdown -

i have run an rca cable from an M10 vhs cam, to an rca/s-video converter.

the s-video plug end of the converter goes into an s-video socket, in a two-way scart, set to 'input'.

the scart is plugged into a vcr, which is in turn hooked up to a crt tv screen

i switch the cam to play mode, and i see the vhs tape playing on the crt, in colour.

i remove the chrominance pin from the s-video plug, and i still see the video in colour!

The important question is what kind of VCR are you using to record?
I guess it is a NORMAL VHS one?
Those S-Video adapters will ONLY work correctly with a REAL S-Video/S-VHS VCR!!

With a normal VHS VCR you will indeed just see the normal composite colour signal...

[kr236rk]

Hi Doman,

The important question is what kind of VCR are you using to record?
I guess it is a NORMAL VHS one?
Those S-Video adapters will ONLY work correctly with a REAL S-Video/S-VHS VCR!!

With a normal VHS VCR you will indeed just see the normal composite colour signal...

i have two vcr's i could record into - a Panasonic NV-F55B and a Toshiba V752UK 'Nicam', neither of which have s-video sockets, hence my use of the s-video socket-bearing scart

why can't a straight scart-to-scart arrangement be used, removing their chrominance connections?

thanks -

[kr236rk]

this is incredible - i have now removed both the chrominance and chrominance ground pins from the s-video plug, and i am still receiving full colour video transmission!

[kr236rk]

this is incredible - i have now removed both the chrominance and chrominance ground pins from the s-video plug, and i am still receiving full colour video transmission!

i have also removed chrominance pin '15' from a scart - and still the cable transmits colour pictures; how is this possible - how is the colour signal getting through, please?

[The_Doman]

this is incredible - i have now removed both the chrominance and chrominance ground pins from the s-video plug, and i am still receiving full colour video transmission!

Nothing incredible here.
You are still using the same composite signal, only using different leads/connectors..
Those SCART adapters don't CONVERT the video signal!!
The SCART adapters will only work with S-Video in combination with REAL S-Video (S-VHS) equipment!

So It won't work without a real S-Video VCR (or other recording device with S-Video input)

Also see here:
SCART Euro AV Connector layout

[kr236rk]

You are still using the same composite signal, only using different leads/connectors..
Those SCART adapters don't CONVERT the video signal!!
The SCART adapters will only work with S-Video in combination with REAL S-Video (S-VHS) equipment!

So It won't work without a real S-Video VCR (or other recording device with S-Video input)

Also see here:
SCART Euro AV Connector layout

ok - you mean, i need to pick up a vcr with s-video input built in?

[The_Doman]

ok - you mean, i need to pick up a vcr with s-video input built in?

For your "plan" to work, yes....

But ofcourse you don't want to buy/get a S-Video VCR for THAT purpose only...??

[kr236rk]

ok - you mean, i need to pick up a vcr with s-video input built in?

For your "plan" to work, yes....

But ofcourse you don't want to buy/get a S-Video VCR for THAT purpose only...??

there is an option?

can i yet re-record a colour vhs video cassette, in b/w, without purchasing an entire s-vhs vcr? - plus s-video input, of course !

[kr236rk]

hi,

work-in-progress: more advice please?



s-video plug with chrominance pin + chrominance ground pin removed, was inserted into dvd player with s-video socket. the other end of the lead was an RCA jack into RCA socket-bearing scart, plugged into a tv screen.

the pictures i got on the screen were bleached-out colour, with a faint, silvery ghosting on lettering.

almost 1/2 colour + monochrome effect

was this because the dvd s-video connection was separating out the chrominance and luminence, whilst the RCA / pre- s-video tv was (imperfectly) recombining these signals?

does it then follow, that i'd need two s-vhs recorders to re-record a colour video into black & white -

i) s-video transmission

ii) s-video reception

separating out the chroma and lumina signals?

this is driving me nuts but i am enjoying it (just)

[kr236rk]

update

hi,

just captured from dvd via s-video (chroma pins removed) to PCI card (RCA socket) and got brilliant monochrome

since i tried this experiment plugging the dvd into a pre- s-video vcr, and was not able to get monochrome, i presume this black&white effect is only possible when both source and capture equipment are s-video capable?

please advise.

thanks,