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  1. Member ahhaa's Avatar
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    ok, this's gonna sound odd, but there's this guy criticising VideoHelp over at Google Videos, saying 'its for noobs'. Not this chesnau poster, but a guy who responds to most every post- you know the type- anyway he said this:

    Because the number of linux users is very minimal in comparison to other OS users.
    And the flash codec has great security features.


    in response to this:

    From: bchesneau@gmail.com - view profile
    Date: Sun, May 7 2006 10:58 am
    Email: "bchesn...@gmail.com" <bchesn...@gmail.com>

    I can't use google video on linux/ppc for now that's too bad. There is indeed no flashplayer fo powerpc machines under linux.I'm curious to know why Google didn't use java to make an applet that play videos online dince the uploader is in java. Any idee why ? Maybe just because
    flash is installed by default on osx/windows main browses, but this
    isn't very open for a web application :\


    I don't have the answer, but I'd really love it to come from VideoHelp ...
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  2. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    I doubt anything like a flashplayer for this platform will ever be released.
    First , porting a JIT engine is not that simple. If it is difficult to port it from x86 to x86_64, imagine what it is to port it to a completely different platform.
    Furthermore, with the Apple decision to switch away from the PPC platform, the number of Linux/PPC desktop users will not be getting bigger, to say the least.
    So I wouldn't hold my breath.


    keep checking at the Gnash site is all i can suggest ... http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnash

    it is a big complaint of a lot of people ..

    as well keep on top of what is happening (or the lack thereof) on this blog http://www.kaourantin.net/2005/12/flash-player-8-for-linux-update.html
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ahhaa
    ok, this's gonna sound odd, but there's this guy criticising VideoHelp over at Google Videos, saying 'its for noobs'.
    When I see stuff like this, red flags in my heads say "online video game nerd with no life". Internet slang is so immature, especially the ones intended to be derogatory or condescending. People like that are of no concern. In all honesty, few would take such individuals seriously, assuming they can even understand what they mean.

    And the unfortunate fact (for Linux users anyway) is that business don't take that OS seriously. Same for Apple, whose primary software provider is Apple themselves. One of the most damaging aspects of Linux is also its strongest aspect: decentralized ownership, open license. Linux companies do not have enough power or clout to "force" companies to take them seriously and port software and code. Just one of those things you have to accept before you even install Linux on your system.
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  4. Member CrayonEater's Avatar
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    Another problem is that worthless GUI, X, is more of a bane than a boon. I think far more people would gravitate towards Linux if there were a GUI and integration that at least approached that of Windows. In terms of speed and ease-of-use, X right now is about where Windows and Mac were - in 1988.
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  5. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    macromedia takes linux seriously to a point -- flash for linux on intel and amd 32 and 64 bit is all in the pipeline or released


    but PPC and linux is not on their radar screen it appears at all...
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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    actualy Flash plugin is already out there for Linux, but what is annoying is Macromedia won't release a Shockwave port for us.

    even they released Flash, its still really slow somehow compared to the Windows Version
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  7. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sakuya_su
    actualy Flash plugin is already out there for Linux, but what is annoying is Macromedia won't release a Shockwave port for us.

    even they released Flash, its still really slow somehow compared to the Windows Version

    plugin not for PPC
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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  8. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    And the unfortunate fact (for Linux users anyway) is that business don't take that OS seriously.
    They need to. Once you step off the shores of the great U.S., linux is much more accepted than you might realize. If these hardware and software manufacturers want to continue to exist in a global marketplace, they had better get a clue. They're not the only ones. If we want to see the end of the mass exodus of our high tech jobs from these shores, we had better start getting a clue as well.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Linux companies do not have enough power or clout to "force" companies to take them seriously and port software and code.
    IBM and Sun don't have any power or clout?

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Just one of those things you have to accept before you even install Linux on your system.


    While I would love to argue this one, I don't have time to sit here and write a novel trying to explain the truth to people who have already made up their minds. There are already far too many windows vs. linus sites to go around. If I thought anyone had an open mind, and actually cared...


    Originally Posted by CrayonEater
    Another problem is that worthless GUI, X, is more of a bane than a boon. I think far more people would gravitate towards Linux if there were a GUI and integration that at least approached that of Windows.


    There is. KDE on X. Every bit as good as windows, and then some.


    Originally Posted by CrayonEater
    In terms of speed and ease-of-use, X right now is about where Windows and Mac were - in 1988.
    Then why is MS working so hard to put eye candy in Vista that already exists in KDE? (As well as many other features that have existed in linux for a long time that they still can't seem to duplicate) Maybe they're trying to time warp themselves back to 1988 when they were at least a semi-honest, semi-respectable company. (well, comparatively at least)
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  9. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    i wish everyone would drop the 'eye candy' - i, for one, really dont want it ...
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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    lol to really show off, you should get SuSE 10.1 with Compiz/Xgl.

    THAT is eye candy!
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  11. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BJ_M
    i wish everyone would drop the 'eye candy' - i, for one, really dont want it ...
    Can't agree more. The best thing about Linux is freedom to choose your GUI. KDE just isn't the one for me. I could care less about eye candy since I operate a computer to do work, not stare at cool looking backgrounds, transparent whizzbangs, and cute child like icons.

    Originally Posted by CrayonEater
    Another problem is that worthless GUI, X, is more of a bane than a boon. I think far more people would gravitate towards Linux if there were a GUI and integration that at least approached that of Windows. In terms of speed and ease-of-use, X right now is about where Windows and Mac were - in 1988.
    Yeah so slow, the FAA uses Linux for it's back end to process, and control flights. Along with the National Weather Service, the Pentagon has a large Linux computing center, as most financial, government, and educational facilities outside of the United States. Games ran through a Windows emulator on Linux more times than not offer a higher FPS in Linux than in native Windows. Let's not forget that MatLab, and Maya both compute faster under (32bit) Xorg than windows. Wonder what Dream Works uses to make their films?

    Not wanting to turn this into an OS thread, but people should really research before posting such facetious things.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    Originally Posted by BJ_M
    i wish everyone would drop the 'eye candy' - i, for one, really dont want it ...
    Can't agree more. The best thing about Linux is freedom to choose your GUI. KDE just isn't the one for me. I could care less about eye candy since I operate a computer to do work, not stare at cool looking backgrounds, transparent whizzbangs, and cute child like icons.
    I think BJ_M is referring to Web content. Flash and all that other eye candy is mostly crap.


    @tekkieman, if I'm not mistaken, I believe IBM is mostly a joke these days, in terms of "power and might" while Sun has been rendered impotent during the past 10 years. They are no Microsoft or Apple. And unless IBM/Sun/others unite, they are just a room full of small fries, not a single power house, which is what I refer to. Don't confuse these statements with "Linux sucks" or something, simply a realistic overview of how things are. You simply will not find major players in software making Linux software (Adobe, Macromedia, etc), especially not for all the Linux "flavors" out there (PPC, others).
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  13. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    btw -- once a powerhouse ... SGI went bankrupt on monday ....
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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    Just a brief comment on this, I switched to linux about 6 months ago, 2 months ago I completely rid myself of windows. Will never go back. Ask any linux user who has switched, if they would go back. We can do everything on our systems that windows users can do. Linux users can also say with confidence that we don't have any "pirated" software on our systems.
    And when vista finally is released let me know when the FBI or interpol show up at your door because you dared play mp3's or an audio cd or a dvd that you bought.

    Long Live Tux
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lpn1160
    We can do everything on our systems that windows users can do.
    If this were actually true, I would be using it on at least 1 of my computers. As it stands, that's simply not how it goes. Saying Mac or Linux is "the same, just as good as, or better" as Windows systems is fun to say, but lacking in facts and truth. The real assessment is that they are each different, with various benefits and faults.

    In times past, I had to load virtualization software inside of an NT system to run Linux. Reduced speeds, but it got the 1-time-needs task accomplished.

    Linux simply fails to have Photoshop, Premiere/Vegas, DVD Workshop/Studio Pro, Procoder, and similar media software. There is sorta-kinda Linux software, but it's just not the same. It's almost like using those plastic kid scissors instead of a pair of "adult" scissors with nice sharp metal blades. It works, sure, but it's not the same.

    Linux is one of those systems best used for technical needs (servers, coding, etc), it's not for casual use or media use. Most people realize this, most software companies have come to this conclusion, so you end up with posts about "how can I make this Windows/Apple thing work in Linux, or how can I make this Windows/Apple thing work just as good with a Linux flavor?". In all honesty, if you have to ask that question, you're using the wrong OS.

    If I wanted my own server here, I'd be running Linux/Apache, I'd surely not mess around with an OS X server, or pay gobs of cash to Microsoft. Or if I wanted to donate an old laptop to a poor country, Linux with StarOffice and GIMP, it's better than nothing.

    I'll agree that it is sort of ironic that the system often powering the Web is one that is mostly ill-suited to view the Web. Or to take advantage of the rich content (and work files) often passed around on it.
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  16. Linux isn't 100% as useful as Windows for every purpose. But it is getting there. With the Cedega project, many Windows games that rely on DirectX run just fine. And while Wine doesn't yet work well with multimedia programs like Sony Vegas, its only a matter of time.

    What I really think will push Linux to the forefront will be the new Intel based Macs. Think of it this way -- there isn't that much difference between OS X and Linux, and now that Macs run on Intel CPUs, it isn't too unrealistic to expect companies to release software that will run on Macs and PCs running Linux. Once that starts happening, more people will start using Linux, and the endless catch-22 will be over.

    More than that, Linux will eventually gain a bigger foothold once the average consumer starts seeing the effects of Microsoft's endless use of DRM. That combined with Microsoft's new crusade against piracy will help the Linux cause quite a bit...
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  17. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    I am a strong advocate for Linux, but I would never say Linux can do everything Windows can. That just is not so.

    The main problem with Linux is the total lack of high quality software. 99% of Linux apps are betas and alphas. Over time, most are laid to rest, devlopement stops, then a new alpha/beta comes out. Or worse, you have 30 alpha programs, and 50 betas, of which none work correctly 100% in one way or another. Instead of doing the logical thing, and combining a few of these betas into one solid program, seperate projects continue. There currently is not a video production app that even comes close to entry level apps on Windows.

    My main personal computer is Linux, but I only do normal office things, web surfing, listen to music, and accounting* on that PC. I still have to have a windows PC around to do any type of video production. I've tried to use 100% Linux for the past 3 years, and could never produce video upto the standard I needed to. Video production is the only thing that has held me back.

    There's is the ability for Linux to become the #1 desktop OS. However, that same option was also present for OS/2, BeOS, QNX ...................

    *There, to this day, is not a consumer accounting program for Linux that can compare to QuickBooks, PeachTree, or even the free windows accounting programs. SQL Ledger, TinyERP, just did not cut it. GNUCash is great for personal finance, but not business. I ended up creating several spreadsheets to track sales, inventory and the like. Though AppGen's Mybooks comes really, really close, but not close enough.
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  18. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    @smurf - I've heard the same argument far too many times. It is usually made by people who couldn't make it do what they wanted because it wasn't "like Windows". Anyone who bothers to take the time to learn linux will be the first to tell you it does everything Windows does, does it better, does it faster, and does it your way. Unfortunately, people don't want to take the time to do that. It's always the same tired argument "why should I have to learn something new? I already know how to do everything in Windows." Perhaps that is true, but very few remember how long it took them to learn to do everything in Windows. How long did it take you to track down all the apps you use? How long did it take you to learn them? Here's the next tired excuse: " I tried linux, and it just doesn't work, but at least I tried it." Yeah, right! For how long? A week? A month? Or did you give it as much time as you gave Windows?

    it is sort of ironic that the system often powering the Web is one that is mostly ill-suited to view the Web
    And do you know why? Because in typical MS fashion, they've ignore the standards internationally agreed upon for web content. They believe since they're the biggest kid on the block, they can make their own rules. That's why it's so difficult for anyone else to view they same content with the same ease. If they had followed the same rules as everyone else, we would have web content that everyone can enjoy with the same little effort.

    Guess where else they've applied these same tactics? Programming. The standard languages weren't good enough for them. They had to break the existing ones with their so called extensions or invent all new languages that claim universal portability, but in fact, run nowhere except Windows (with the exception of the great work done by project mono and others). Not only do they develop proprietary languages, they make programming drag and drop with absolutely no need to follow established standards.

    This is an old argument that could go on for time without end, but the bottom line doesn't change...Just because they are the biggest, they try to make the rules. Even if the rules already exist. They no longer ask you "where do you want to go today?". They took you exactly where they wanted you to go. Straight to hell.


    PS - Before I get called a "linux fanboy", you should know I make my living writing software exclusively for Windows.
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  19. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lpn1160
    Linux users can also say with confidence that we don't have any "pirated" software on our systems.

    Long Live Tux
    So...

    You only listen to oggvorbis, FLAC, PCM, and MAC audio, and only watch video content made with Theora and Xvid? Xvid/Divx with mp3 still requires an illegal pirated, against copyright law mp3 codec to be installed on your computer. If you live in one of the many countries that follow this las, that is
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  20. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    There currently is not a video production app that even comes close to entry level apps on Windows.



    Look harder!
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  21. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    I've used main actor, not at all what I would call high quality.

    I've used main actor for Linux, since it first came out, bundled with Suse. The interface is acient, the problems are abound. Take a look at the support forum.
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    I would hardly consider MainActor at the same caliber to Vegas or Premiere or Final Cut Pro or Avid. That's the point I'm getting at. Linux, when it comes to most mainstream business needs software, is a red-headed stepchild. It gets crap versions or B-rate software at best.

    As far as Web standards, we'd still be using two fonts and 16 colors if the governments or private coalitions made the rules. The reason MS and others "break the rules" is to further technological progress. In similar areas (take copyright law), agreed upon intervention tends to do little more than stifle progress. I'm all for "breaking the rules" in this context.
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    You only listen to oggvorbis, FLAC, PCM, and MAC audio, and only watch video content made with Theora and Xvid? Xvid/Divx with mp3 still requires an illegal pirated, against copyright law mp3 codec to be installed on your computer.
    Not exactly what I meant by Pirated software. Is it a fair comparison to install the lame codec to someone who has photoshop and/or CCE, Vegas etc. High end apps are fine, but how many "video enthusiasts (read:hobbyists)" are going to plunk down $100's if not thousands of $$ for these apps. Proffessional and people with big money yes but the average joe?? Reading these forums for some years now, I don't believe everyone on some of these topics are proffesionals in search of answers to work related problems. Linux users will continue useing it, same with windows users. No one will convince the other, otherwise. Enjoy what you use and "Happy Encoding"
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    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    How old did you say your daddy was when he started driving a Linux?
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  25. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SCDVD
    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    How old did you say your daddy was when he started driving a Linux?
    If there's supposed to be some humor here, sadly, it was lost. And my "daddy" has been dead for seven years. What's your point?
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  26. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    PS - Before I get called a "linux fanboy", you should know I make my living writing software exclusively for Windows.
    So "hypocrite" is more appropriate ?




    Nice to see you in the public area again, BTW
    If in doubt, Google it.
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  27. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimmalenko
    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    PS - Before I get called a "linux fanboy", you should know I make my living writing software exclusively for Windows.
    So "hypocrite" is more appropriate ?




    No, I think "prostitute" would be more appropriate.
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  28. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    No, I think "prostitute" would be more appropriate.



    Man-Whore !
    If in doubt, Google it.
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  29. Member Nitemare's Avatar
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    "Anyone who bothers to take the time to learn linux will be the first to tell you it does everything Windows does, does it better, does it faster, and does it your way. Unfortunately, people don't want to take the time to do that. It's always the same tired argument "why should I have to learn something new? I already know how to do everything in Windows."

    THIS is exactly why linux doesn't go anywhere. It's this type of elitist snobbery that cripples this OS. No one expects linux to be "like windows" and many people are perfectly willing to learn something new. The documentation for software in linux is notoriously poor. This makes even those of us who are willing challenged to learn "something new". (and I have used linux a fair bit)

    The first package to make linux user friendly will blow all other releases away and might even gain a following to rival the elitist snobs over at APPLE.

    Let's face it... most people are morons. Microsoft makes an OS that's so user friendly that even morons can use it. They win! It doesn't even have to work correctly (as MS has proven over and over)

    Linux's own worst enemy is Linux. Using the "people are too lazy to learn" excuse is weak. Not only is it not true, but the attitude chases away people that might have tried it otherwise.

    Regards,
    Nitemare
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    Originally Posted by Nitemare
    THIS is exactly why linux doesn't go anywhere. It's this type of elitist snobbery that cripples this OS. No one expects linux to be "like windows" and many people are perfectly willing to learn something new.
    Are we reading the same thread? From my perspective there are observations on this thread that linux is NOT as accepted as Windows (in the context that windows is better), and if there is snobbery, it is being met just as equally, if not more, by ignorance by assessments, and exaggerations, on the Windows side. Let me quote and reply to selective statements in some posts:
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    And the unfortunate fact (for Linux users anyway) is that business don't take that OS seriously.
    I can't speak for Apple, but I can say our organisation has a lot of Windows AND Linux workstations. And we distribute our product that runs under Linux. ... Ours is a multi-billion euro organisation. I would say that is taking linux seriously. I concede that Windows is SIGNIFICANTLY more ingrained in the commercial side, but thats not the point of my post. Simply put, without a qualification, that quoted statement is inaccurate.
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    One of the most damaging aspects of Linux is also its strongest aspect: decentralized ownership, open license. Linux companies do not have enough power or clout to "force" companies to take them seriously and port software and code. Just one of those things you have to accept before you even install Linux on your system.
    Agree!
    Originally Posted by CrayonEater
    Another problem is that worthless GUI, X, is more of a bane than a boon. I think far more people would gravitate towards Linux if there were a GUI and integration that at least approached that of Windows. In terms of speed and ease-of-use, X right now is about where Windows and Mac were - in 1988.
    Completely inaccurate. Is this ignorance, snobbery, or both?
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    @tekkieman, if I'm not mistaken, I believe IBM is mostly a joke these days, in terms of "power and might" while Sun has been rendered impotent during the past 10 years.
    Last I looked, IBM was a multi-billion dollar organisation. Just what organisation meets your "power and might" criteria so it is not a joke?
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    They are no .... Apple.
    Apple? .... seems to me IBM is at least as big, if not bigger than Apple.
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    They are no Microsoft
    So thats the point? Unless some company equals Microsoft in size, no major players in sofware will make linux software (and you give Adobe as an example). ... Hmmm. ... I assume you know there is Adobe acrobat for Linux. There is also Nero for Linux. ...While I agree the vast majority of software houses will continue to produce Windows and not linux software, your statement is incorrect when you state one can not find major players. One can.
    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    The main problem with Linux is the total lack of high quality software.
    I disagree with the word "total" and it is simply the wrong word, used to try and make a point. There is high quality software for Linux. I do agree (and think it is more accurate to say) that Windows has more high quality software than Linux.
    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    There currently is not a video production app that even comes close to entry level apps on Windows.
    Not true. There are very expensive Linux movie production applications, that beat the pants off of entry level Windows apps. And no, I am not talking about Main Actor. Maybe you should research (or qualify) this a bit, before you make such a statement. I would agree with your statement if you qualified it and said "video production app for the average user".
    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    My main personal computer is Linux, but I only do normal office things, web surfing, listen to music, and accounting* on that PC. I still have to have a windows PC around to do any type of video production.
    I agree here. For video production for the average user, Windows has a signficant advantage. BUT having typed that, I notice complete silence on the fact that one is SUPPOSED TO PAY for these Windows applications, and not pirate them. Take away the capability to pirate these Windows applications, and I think the nature of the ball game would change.
    Originally Posted by Nitemare
    Linux's own worst enemy is Linux. Using the "people are too lazy to learn" excuse is weak. Not only is it not true, but the attitude chases away people that might have tried it otherwise.
    The overall open source nature of Linux makes it this way. Its the nature of the beast, just like the commercial/pirated aspect is the nature of the Windows beast. Both OS have their pro's and con's, and currently Windows is the bigger OS for our video hobby, in part because of the massive monopoloy it has, and in part because of the commercial aspects. Take away the ability to prirate many of the powerful commercial aspects, and I think you will see more people migrating away from windows to other operating systems.
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