MSI Mobo, Overheating Computer?

[Tom Saurus]

I need some advice about my computer. My motherboard was manufactured by MSI. The model is MS-6743. I have downloaded a newer version of PC Alert, I updated it the other day. Well anyway I have discovered that the Case Fan has stopped working. I intend on replacing the fan, but I need some advice on whether I need to do be looking at having some other work done, when I take it to the computer technician.

According to PC Alert:

The Cpu Temperature at the moment is 48 Celcius and the system is 42 Celcius, and I am not doing much, just writing this in Internet Explorer. The fan speed is running at 4017, and that number fluctuates up or down depending on what I am doing with the computer. I shut the computer off last night and even shut off the power supply, so the computer would be at rest. When I turned the computer on this morning the CPU temp was around 39 and the System temp was arond 29 or so. After a minute or so I got a Alarm popping up and the number for the fan was in red and the number was 1207. Once the temperature of the cpu and system went up some the fan went up to around 1643 or something like that and the alarm shut off.

Is this a normal function, the fan speed changing? Now the temperature of the CPU and System gradually go up over time, and what things I am using the computer for. When I start recording or watching something on MMC which is the software I use with my ATI AIW 9800 Pro Video Card, the temperature has went up to as high as 68, but no alarms have went off on the PC Alert. I scared to use DVD Shrink because I know that really heats my computer up.

As far as I can tell my cpu heatsink and fan is working correctly. My question is does a case fan when it is working really make a big difference? I don't mind going the extra step and getting a new heatsink and cpu fan. I have a new power supply, which is 650 watts and that was installed back in February.

How can I determine what is the correct temperature that the computer should be running at so that I don't cook my computer's components? Does anyone else have a MSI Motherboard, and could give me some specific advice on how to best care for it? Any advice on what is the right temperature without being in the danger zone for various computer tasks such a recording with the capture card. I am quite concerned about how transcoding, like when converting an AVI to a Mpeg2 file, or using DVD to shrink a file small enough to put on a DVD. It seems to really heat my computer up, when preforming those tasks. Though both these tasks are important, well DVD Shrink is something I use quite a bit. I can't tell you how many times a file is maybe 150 or 200mb too big for the DVD Disk and DVD Shrink has shrunk it to a better size.

Perhaps DVD Shrink raises the temperature significantly, and that is normal. But how does one know it has raised it a whole lot. There seems to be a kind of smell the computer gets after I use DVD Shrink or have trancoding an AVI to Mpeg2. After the computer temperature drops the smell disapates. I am just thinking now that perhaps dust or whatever gets heated up, if it is coating some parts, and that is where the smell comes from. It is hard to clean the computer at times, because it is hard to get the vacume nozzle where you want it. Could the smell be from computer parts overheating? I think when the case fan was working, that PC Alert registered the temperature was around 64 right after DVD Shrink was finished.

I just read the readout on PC Alert 4, and it says my CPU is now 50 Celcius and the System temperature is now 43 Celcius; so it has risen somewhat, as I was writing this post. The fan is still running at 4017. It was strange I noticed the other day, when I was burning a DVD that the temperature actually dropped in my computer.

I hope someone can give me some advice on this matter. I am thinking about going up tommorow to have the case fan put in. I don't mind paying for more stuff to be done, but I need some help determining whether it is necessary to do that, or what is needed to be done. Thanks in advance for any help that you can be to me on this matter.

[lenti_75]

I dont' know for your mobo, but Asus has a function called "quiet and cool" that keeps the rpm low if the temp is low, and goes higher with temp.

now, maybe the cpu fan is bad....check that, make sure it spins easily
I would reinstall the heating sink for cpu and use a better silicone
the case fan is important, use one
clean the cpu heatsink, use a caned air spray.

the cpu temp goes up to 80-85 before it's burned, a temp of 50 at load is not bad for a stock heatsink, as long as you keep the cpu below 70 it's not burned, it's hot but still good.

if you smell like something burning...THAT IS BAD, try to locate that.

[Tom Saurus]

lenti_75: Thanks for your response to my questions. I think perhaps there is something built to regulate the speed of the cpu fan. I took the side of the case after shutting the computer down, and the fan attached to the video card is spinning around fairly fast and looks to be doing its jobs. The fan overtop the heat sink is spinning around fairly well. The fan speed has dropped to 2812, the CPU temperature is 43C and the System temperature is 36C

If someone could please advice me what heatsink to buy for this mobo and what cpu fan I would gladly buy one. I want to preserve this computer as long as possible.

[ROF]

I can highly recommend the Aerocool HT100 series of cooling systems for your CPU. This cooler provides one of the best cooling solutions without emptying your wallet.

[Tom Saurus]

ROF: I wrote down the cooling system you recommended. The computer technician told me to just let him know if I want him to order it in. First thing is to get the case fan installed and see what that does to the cpu and system temperature. Thank you for your input, it is was kind of you to post your recommendation of the cooling system.

Has anyone noticed if DVD Shrink is hard on a cpu? It seems to make the temperature go up significantly. I notice too that VSO DivxtoDVD seems to really raise the cpu temperature. It went up about 16C in less than five minutes with that running. I aborted the task, not wanting to take any chances.

For the most part my computer is working great; I just want to keep it humming along.

[budz]

When using dvdshrink it should not create elevated high temps. Sounds like your cpu heatsink and fan are not doing well. I would have the tech check your cpu heatsink and fan before ordering anything. Just my 2 cents!

[ROF]

It sounds like your current CPU colling system has become inefficient. Since you know what component this is shut down your computer and take the side panel off. Using a flashlight examine the fins of the heatsink beneath your CPU fan. If they have never been cleaned I dare say your fan is operating inefficiently due to excessive build up of dust and debris. It may be difficult to view those fins because of the fan but an easier indicator of what lies beneath is to examine the CPU fan blades. Do they have strings of dust seemingly lining the blades? I'll bet you will see this. By adding a case fan(helps tremendously) and cleaning your CPU cooling system you may be able to avoid buying another cooler.

Any CPU intensive task will create spikes in temperatures but shrink should not create the severe issue you are seeing.

[Tom Saurus]

budz: Thanks for the advice. I have asked the technician to take a look at the CPU Fan and the heatsink.

ROF: Thanks for your additional advice. I got talking to the technician and he said he would give the CPU Fan and heatsink a good cleaning. Then if I still have problems, I am going to have to get the cooling system you recommended. As soon as I get the Soap I tape at 2:00pm recorded into the computer, I will shut the computer down and take a look at the CPU Fan. I am kind of glad about asking that question about DVD Shrink, because if it indicates a problem with the CPU Fan, and the heatsink, that is important to know. Maybe even some other people can learn from this thread. Oh, I forgot there is that other show at 3:00pm, I better make it 4:00pm to shut it down and take a look. At the moment the computer is recording and I do still have the side off, and the CPU temp is 48C, the system temp is 41C and the fan is 3924. My computer seems to like having the side off. The technician is also going to look to see if he can modify the case to install another case fan, since there is only currently a spot for one. If he can, then I will look into having that done, if that is a good idea. Thank you once again, for this advice.

[ROF]

If your case does not have a side exhaust any computer technician can quickly cut a whole in your side panel for additional fan coverage. You may also also want to look into whether your case has an intake fan. Since you say it operates better(cooler) with the side off this may also be issue. Better airflow can be maintained by channeling your cables in such a way that air is allowed to flow more freely. Rounded IDE/Floppy cabling can help tremendously by eliminating the bulky ribbon cables.

[redwudz]

If you don't mind a little increased noise, a second fan is often a good idea. I use the front fan as intake and it blows over the hard drives, cooling them. The rear fan is exhaust and pulls the warm air out. Your temperatures aren't extreme, but when they drop that much by having the side cover off, that shows you can do with a little more air circulation.

It sounds like your CPU fan is being controlled by the motherboard. Sometimes the controllers start the fan off slow and when the CPU temp rises, the RPM of the fan increases. You could set the temp alarm a little higher in BIOS if it is going off at too low a temp. You may also be able to do the same with the CPU fan alarm for low RPM.

If your CPU temp stays within a few C of your case temperature, the cooling system is working properly. Most newer CPUs will throttle down the CPU speed if the temp gets up in the danger zone. 70C would be warmer than I would like a CPU to run. 50C is a good number when encoding, but it depends on the CPU model and specs.

I should mention too, that most BIOS have a temp indicator page that may be more accurate than one that runs from the OS. Your tech will probably check that and compare it to your OS program that measures temp.

[Tom Saurus]

ROF: If one had fan put on the side of the case, how would you be able to open your computer, without the fan getting disconected? As for the cables from the hard drive, someone has taken the ribbons, and twisted them and encased them in a mesh tubing. Thanks once again for this additional information. It was kind of you to provide me with it.

redwudz: My computer doesn't have a place to put the fan at the front. It is built in such a way, I don't think one could be put in there. The CPU temperature since I put the side back on the case is 51C and the System temp is 42C. There seems at time anywhere between 6 to 10 degree difference in the CPU and System temperatures. The cpu fan speed is currently 4017. I shut the computer off and took a look with a flashlight at the cpu fan. The fan seems relatively clean, but I could see significant dust building up on the fins underneath the fan that are part of the heatsink. The fan over the heatsink has the following wrote on it: vantecusa.com, Vantec. That is who made the fan. The heatsink seems to be largely made of copper from what I could see of it. Thank you for responding to my questions. It was kind of you to add your input on this matter.

[Nelson37]

Your temperatures are not extreme nor dangerous, just a tad high.

Fan speed is variable on most mobo's, this can be disabled to run at constant full speed. Noise is the only drawback. A defective fan can also run at variable speeds, not related to temperature, this should be replaced ASAP.

Vacuum cleaner is not of sufficient power to remove dust from most areas, particularly within the heatsink. If you are vacuuming regularly, this seems to indicate you have a fairly dusty environment, the hot dust is probably what is causing the smell.

Try this test. Vacuum thoroughly. Then use a can of compressed air, especially around the heatsing vanes. Note the amount of dust that the vacuum did not get.

Most likely you only need to replace the failed case fan, CPU heatsink probably just needs cleaning and disable the variable speed fan control in the bios. Don't spend money you don't need to, save it and buy more RAM or some other useful upgrade. Also most boxed CPU include a fan and 3-year warranty, this is void if non-stock fan is used.

[Tom Saurus]

Nelson37: Thank you for input on this topic. It was kind of you to respond to my questions. I am taking it up Wednesday. The technician said he would give the heat sank and cpu fan a thorough cleaning. Thinking back on things now, I should of had that case fan replaced back in February. I had my computer cleaned back then and had a new modem installed. Over the course of last fall my computer sounded like a aircraft taking off.

I read on the internet about taking a drop of 3 in 1 Oil and putting underneath the cap that is under the sticker on the fan and that would make the fan last longer, because it would lubricate it. I did this and the technician cleaned my computer back then. My computer was alot quieter after I got it back. Then it started to get louder again, I suspect now, that probably the case fan was starting to go downhill. Thinking about it now, I was foolish not to replace the case fan back then. You have to be very careful how much oil goes in that little well underneath the sticker. Hardly seems worth trouble when you consider how cheap the case fans are.

I have been talking to the technician whether I should get fans to cool the hard drives. I really don't know what to do about that. I remember when the guy at my ISP first built my computer that it was very unstable and it turned out that the computer was overheating. He installed a better fan, and that problem disappeared. I am thinking it was probably the CPU fan that he installed. I would wager with my computer getting really hot, I probably killed trillions of poor little dust mites; I am such a stinker.

Thank you once again for your input.

[Tom Saurus]

I dropped the computer off, and the technician installed a new case fan. He also took a look at the heatsink and the cpu fan. He removed the previous paste under the heatsink and used arctic silver and cleaned the heatsink and fan. He said it looked like the cpu fan and heatsink were still in good shape. It seems to be running cooler for most tasks. Though it still bothers me that the temperature climbs so quickly when I use DVD Shrink.

I saw the temperature rise fairly quick to 70C, at one point while using DVD Shrink. So what I have started to do when using DVD Shrink is split the task of shrinking the file into two. First doing the analysis. Now keeping an eye on the temperature, I pause this function and the cpu temperature starts dropping dramatically. Then I resume, and if I see the temperature reaching what I consider too much, and that is 70C, I pause again until the temperature drops. The temperature drops fairly fast. Once the analysis faze is completed then I launch the backup tool and pause and resume with it as well, until the task is completed.

So something must still be the matter. I noticed something this morning, for I shut the computer off and let it rest last night. The numbers indicating the fan speed where in red and the number was 12053. There seems to be a scale indicating the cpu speed on the read out screen for PC Alert 4. It says 0 to 9900. When the numbers are blue coloured the most I have seen the numbers is 4300 or so. So this makes me wonder if at times when need whether the fan should be higher than 4300. It is very confusing. On the line where the CPU Fan speed is listed there are indicators for SysFan and PS Fan and these just stay at 0 in blue numbers and they don't change. This also has me confused.

I get an alarm beeping when the cpu fan speed is in red, and that the number of 12053. Now after the computer running for a minute or two this goes away when the numbers turn to blue and even a low number like 1658 is coloured blue.

He told me if I opened up those unused slots for additional PCI stuff that perhaps a little bit more air flow would get in to the computer. I just have to put a little bit of screen over those after I remove those metal plates. He also said that if I decide on having some fans installed along the removable saw that he can do that if I decide on doing that. He said that there would have to be a lengthy wire installed so that when you take the side off that you can get clean these without ripping the wire out.

Any additional advice is greatly appreciated. I think that the case fan might bypass the motherboard, and that is why it doesn't register on PC Alert. Unless the case fan and System Fan are two seperate things, probably they are. I think the case fan is directly getting its power from the power supply. Thanks in advance for any additional advice.

[Tom Saurus]

I haven't done much this morning, since starting the computer. Just use Internet Explorer, to post this additional information. The cpu temperature is 41C and the system temperature is 32. The gap between CPU and System temperature really increased when I was using DVD Shrink. I primarily use DVD Shrink, when I have authorized a DVD using Tmpgenc DVD Author 1.6 that is bigger than the size for a 4.3GB disk. Like yesterday, a movie I recorded turned out to be 4886mb and I authorized it and then used DVD Shrink to take the files from the Video & Audio TS Folder and it shrunk them to 91.5%. Then I analyzed and then backed it up to ISO file. Does it do any harm to the eventual ISO file if one pauses and resumes during the task to allow the CPU to cool down? I hope not, because atleast it makes me feel better not allowing it to climb beyond 70C, I probably should allow it to climb beyond 60C though. Something is wrong somewhere, I just don't know what. One other thing, I use DVD Decrypter to burn the ISO imagine, and I use Ritek blank DVD-R's and I noticed now that they are considered 2nd Class Media. They used to be considered 3rd Class. Well one failed to start and it said something about a power calibration error. That would have nothing to do with the heat issue would it? Thanks once again for any advice you can give me on this issue.

[budz]

I would suggest you checking your CPU TEMP in the BIOS of your mobo which is more reliable than a program that keeps tabs on your temps. When you see the cpu temp reach 70c shut the pc down then go into your BIOS of your motherboard and see what the temp is. If it states 70c then surely something is wrong. Then I would suggest getting another heatsink and fan for your cpu. Just my 2 cents.

[lenti_75]

the system temp is always much lower.

get a new heatsink with fan, if still have problems, then it's the mobo, it reads the temp wrong.

the basic ideea is this, the cpu temp can't go 30 higher when on load, usually is goes ~15 higher than idle.

It's either the cpu tells the mobo wrong temp or mobo reads it wrong

[ROF]

If you have a good relationship with someone who owns a computer shop take it to them and tell them your issue with heat. They will use a thermoprobe tester to tell if your Mobo and case sensor is providing accurate temperature readings. You could optionally buy one of these but unless you have several uses for one it may not be worth the investment.

[psx_pirate]

Tom .... enter the bios setup and check the setting for smart fan ... you should disable this to keep the fan running at full speed all the time rather than it slowing down according to cpu temp ..(this help prevent temp rising in the first place)... secondly does your pc crash when the temp rises ... most msi mobo's have an auto shutdown feature that shuts off the cpu in the event that the temp gets to high (check the manual) ... if your mobo has this feature and the pc is not shutting down it is most likely that the mobo is reporting the wrong temp for your cpu

[Tom Saurus]

I just got off the phone with the technician, and he told me to download a program called "speedfan" and see what readings I get with that. By going into the bios, and disabling the smartfan, what happens when a person turns their computer on and it has that really high number that causes the alarm to go off. There seems to be a scale on the different windows, for the CPU Fan there is a 0 to 9900. It usually gets to 4200 or 4300 at the most, other than that red number after the computer starts 12053, and that is only after I have completely shut the computer down and shut off the power supply.

I think part of this has to do with room temperature. Sometimes in the winter time it gets down to 60 degrees F in this room, and then the CPU and System have to heat up, because the numbers will be low on them and in the red. I am going to look around in the BIOS, after checking my current temperature, and see if they match. I will try to disable smartfan and see what happens.

I am enclosing a screenshot from PcAlert 4 that I cropped to focus in on the PC Alert 4 Display. Maybe it will give you a better idea with what I am dealing with.

pc%20alert%204.jpg

[psx_pirate]

looking at that screenshot it looks ok ... u need to set the value for the alarm .... in the setting of pc alert you can set the speed at which the alarm sounds (from the screenshot i suggest 3800 rpm) if there is an alrm function built into the mobo you will need to set the value in bios too (or disable it and let pc alert handle the alarms) if fan speed drop below the value set an alarm will sound ... you should turn off smart fan though otherwise the fan speed may drop below the alarm limit ... you can also set an alarm for cpu temp in pc alert (and in bios if it supports cpu temp warnings) ... you should set this to around 70 dgrees c (depending on your cpu)

[Tom Saurus]

psx_pirate: The only thing I can set in the settings for PC Alert is how long the Alarm Sound lasts for. It doesn't allow anything else to be set, it just seems to monitor temperature and fan speeds, doesn't allow you to actually do anything else.

I went into the bios, and if anything the actual temperature is higher than what PC Alert is showing. The computer is more or less idil and the PCU temperature is 54C and the system temperature is 34C.

There was a setting called CPU Smart Fan Temp, which wanted me to enter a temperature in the Bios. I changed the alarm to go off a 70C and for the system to shutdown at 80C.

This all is getting so confusing, I really think I am beyond my depths.

[lacywest]

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=453

Well if you were working with a AMD chip ... I could probably say something more helpful.

Can you pop off the CPU and use some Silver Artic heatsink compound to help dissipitate the heat.

How about attaching a bigger heatsink ... or use an adapter and replace the 60mm fan with a 80mm fan.

http://www.overclockers.co.nz/product/fans/adapter.shtml

http://www.svc.com/fa80120-uvblu.html

How about mounting a fan on the side cover and have it blow air directly in the area where the heatsink/CPU is located.

There is a door knob saw that I used that [I bought one] will cut through the side panel like butter [if you use a AC high speed drill ... takes longer if using a battery type cordless drill] ... and fits perfectly ... an 80mm fan. You will see a decent drop in temperature if you pull some air in from outside and have it blowing directly in the area where the CPU/heatsink is located.

[Tom Saurus]

There may be some hope yet. I just took an avi file and converted it to mpeg 2 with VSO Divx to DVD, and it took an hour put the temperature reached 66 and stayed there, only going to 67 briefly and then returned to 66C. It took nearly an hour to convert, but the job was completed. The computer cooled down quite quickly, right now the CPU temperature is 43C.

lacywest: I will check out the links you provided. I think that the technician will be able to put a fan in the side of the case. He said he could use a little jigsaw to make the opening. It does make sense that if some air was blowing in toward the heat sink, that it could cool it and the cpu down. Thank you for the information you provided on this matter.

ps_pirate: I forgot to convey my thanks for the information you provided. I also want to say thank you to budz, lenti75 and ROF. It was kind of you all to take the time to give me some additional advice.