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  1. Member bmwracer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono
    However, PAL subs also have to be converted to NTSC.
    Ahh, that's what I figured... But I didn't know where the subs were located: embedded, separate file(s), etc... So I was stumped.

    I had hoped that if they were part of the movie somehow, they would be converted as well... So much for wishful thinking. Heh.
    Frank Zappa: "People wouldn't know a good movie if it smacked 'em in the face."
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  2. But I didn't know where the subs were located: embedded, separate file(s), etc... So I was stumped.

    If embedded, you'd see them when playing the vobs. If selectable, you'll only see them while playing the DVD, but not while playing the vobs (understand the difference?). And if you don't see them at all when playing the DVD, then you have no subs.

    As an experiment, extract the subs from the original DVD using PGCDemux. You should get a SUP file among the others. Then remux using Muxman, this time adding the subs back in. Don't forget the chapters (File->Import Chapter, and load the celltimes.txt). For the video use your reencoded M2V. When done you'll have a DVD, but without a menu. Play it to check for the subs. Don't worry about the colors or the position of the subs on the screen. If you made a menu, then load the subless DVD you made into VobBlanker, highlight the movie so that it opens in the lower screen, highlight it in the lower screen, and to the right hit the "Replace" button. Browse to your new DVD with subs, give it a destination and "Process". If you never made a menu, then skip that last part.

    Now you should have the DVD with subs and the menu (if there was one) and anything else that might have been in there. If the colors are off, or the subs are too low or too high on the screen, use DVDSubEdit to fix them. It comes with a very good help file. And there are also a couple of very good guides for its use on this site.
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  3. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    When I do PAL to NTSC and there are subtitles I burn the subtitles into the video. The reason I do this is because I've never put much attention to learning about "selectable subtitles" and in-the-end I just find it easier to burn them in.

    This thread talks about how I do it using AviSynth ---> CLICK HERE

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  4. Member bmwracer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono
    Now you should have the DVD with subs and the menu (if there was one) and anything else that might have been in there. If the colors are off, or the subs are too low or too high on the screen, use DVDSubEdit to fix them. It comes with a very good help file. And there are also a couple of very good guides for its use on this site.
    Okay, I've got the subs, but for some stinkin' reason whatever changes I make in DVDSubEdit, they don't take... I can see that the VOBs have been updated (based on the date/time), yet when I view those same files in PowerDVD, they don't show some of the changes (location, orientation) but not others (color, opacity, etc.)...

    Mmore than likely it's a user error on my part, but I haven't figured out why.
    Frank Zappa: "People wouldn't know a good movie if it smacked 'em in the face."
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  5. Hi-

    Mmore than likely it's a user error on my part, but I haven't figured out why.

    Yep, more than likely. Did you read the help file? Did you track down and read the guides? Most likely the changes were made only to the subs in view, and not to all of them. After you've made the changes, try going Edit->Apply Last Modifications To All, before saving.

    And you may not be changing the colors correctly. Here's the change colors guide:

    https://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/Guides/ChangingColors/Guide.htm

    And the user manual:

    https://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit/UserManual/helpfile.htm

    I've only had to use it a couple of times so far, and after changing the color of only one sub, and the opacity of only one sub, I found the Edit button and made the changes stick for all of them.

    But you're making progress, aren't you? At least now you have some subs with which to work.
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  6. Member bmwracer's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm officially losing my mind now... I took my newly-generated and functional NTSC video (.M2V) and audio (.AC3) files, created a new .SUP file (which I verified to be correct in color, opacity, location, etc. in DVDSubEdit), and used Muxman to create a new VOB set. And the subtitles are wrong again when viewed.

    WTF?
    Frank Zappa: "People wouldn't know a good movie if it smacked 'em in the face."
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  7. Oh, I see. You're opening the SUP file. Make the DVD first, and then open the vobs.
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  8. Member bmwracer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    When I do PAL to NTSC and there are subtitles I burn the subtitles into the video. The reason I do this is because I've never put much attention to learning about "selectable subtitles" and in-the-end I just find it easier to burn them in.

    This thread talks about how I do it using AviSynth ---> CLICK HERE

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    I'm starting to see your POV... The whole selectable subtitle thing is a pain in ass.

    I think hardsubbing will help expedite my auhtoring of the DVD.


    I've noticed that the .SUP file generated by PGCDemux is unusable by DVDAuthorGUI and GUI for DVDAuthor: during compilation, the program terminates when it tries to process the .SUP file... I get a stackdump message every time... Bleah.

    However, Muxman has no problem with the .SUP file. Inexplicable. *scratches head*
    Frank Zappa: "People wouldn't know a good movie if it smacked 'em in the face."
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  9. What's inexplicable about it? DVD subtitles are in SUP format. Those are used by Muxman, IFOEdit, and, I think, Rejig. The others you mentioned used text based subs, such as those in SRT or SSA formats. I thought I remember reading that DVDAuthorGUI took SUP files now, but I could be wrong.

    Did you try using DVDSubEdit on the DVD vobs, rather than on the SUP file? If all you want to change is the sub colors, then it can very easily be done in PGCEdit. Open the finished DVD, double-click on the movie, and edit the CLUT which is that 4x4 square of colors where simewhere in the top row (usually) you'll see the 2 colors you want to change. Changing the position of the subs requires DVDSubEdit. Either that or remake the subs for NTSC.

    Subs embedded or burned into the video degrade the quality of the video. They create mosquito noise around the subs. They make the video more difficult to compress. For DVD especially, it's amateurish and sloppy to burn in the subs.
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  10. Member bmwracer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manono
    What's inexplicable about it? DVD subtitles are in SUP format. Those are used by Muxman, IFOEdit, and, I think, Rejig. The others you mentioned used text based subs, such as those in SRT or SSA formats. I thought I remember reading that DVDAuthorGUI took SUP files now, but I could be wrong.
    Yup, DVDAuhtorGUI supposedly takes .SUP files, but like I said, I keep getting stackdumps when I include that file during compilation... Apparently the .SUP file that it can accept is text-based.

    Did you try using DVDSubEdit on the DVD vobs, rather than on the SUP file?
    Yeah, I did. And everything looks okay. I was trying to use DVDAuthorGUI/GUI for DVDAuthor to spiff up the chapters and whatnot, but the subtitle problem has hindered things. Been trying to use SubRip to generate a text-based file, but the OCR mode isn't perfect...

    Subs embedded or burned into the video degrade the quality of the video. They create mosquito noise around the subs. They make the video more difficult to compress. For DVD especially, it's amateurish and sloppy to burn in the subs.
    Ouch.
    Frank Zappa: "People wouldn't know a good movie if it smacked 'em in the face."
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  11. OK, this will work, but it's kind of the long way around. I didn't realize you were also creating a good menu. Did you make a good DVD (without subs) with menu and all using DVDAuthorGUI?

    Here's what you need:
    1. a good DVD with menu, but without subs, created in DVDAuthorGUI.
    2..A good DVD without menu, but with chapters and subs created in Muxman.

    Then, open the menued DVD in VobBlanker, click on the movie to make it show up in the lower screen, double-click it in the lower screen, hit the "Replace" button on the right, scroll to your subbed but menuless DVD, give it a destination and "Process".

    After that you'll have a DVD with a menu and subs, BUT, the subs haven't been turned on yet. Open it in PGCEdit, double-click the movie, and in the new screen that opens, in the subpicture section in the upper right, change from "None" to " 0 0 0 0" by clicking on the first sub line and changing from "Disable" to "Set". OK your way out of there, "Save" and test.
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  12. Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Where is says, "SIZE: 720 x 576" ... we need to change the 576 to 480
    What if mine says 352 X 576? Do I only change 576 to 480 or do I also change 352 to 720?
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  13. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HatchetMan
    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Where is says, "SIZE: 720 x 576" ... we need to change the 576 to 480
    What if mine says 352 X 576? Do I only change 576 to 480 or do I also change 352 to 720?
    If the source PAL is 352x576 (this is called Half D1 resolution) then you should probably use NTSC Half D1 resolution which is 352x480 ... unless the video is very short ... like roughly 60 minutes or less ... in which case I would use 720x480 instead.

    I've never used DGPulldown on a MPEG-2 file with Half D1 resolution but I see no reason why it would not work.

    Just remember that Half D1 does not officially support 16x9 WS video.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    The Author is to congratulated on an exellent tutorial.As another post says, it's the inclusion of 'why' a step is taken that makes it an outstanding effort.
    I have converted half a dozen Pal to NTSC videos and always find at the end of the day that the audio is out of sync.It doesn't seem to matter which tools are employed, video quality seems about the same, but I have to go the extra step (in TMPGEnc) and adjust the audio (seems to be ahead of the video?) to get a viewable product.
    Of course this in no way detracts from 'FulciLives' super effort, the best tutorial that I have come across, it just seems to be a fact of video life.
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  15. Agreed sambat, big props to FulciLives for this excellent tutorial!
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  16. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Thanks

    As for the audio sync problems that sambat has ... are you processing the audio separately and do you notice a large delay value in the audio (using DGIndex it will tell you the delay value).

    Using the method I talk about here ... the only way the sound might get out-of-sync is if it has a large delay value to begin with.

    You can try giving it a 0 delay value using delaycut aka AC3 Delay Corrector.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Thanks

    As for the audio sync problems that sambat has ... are you processing the audio separately and do you notice a large delay value in the audio (using DGIndex it will tell you the delay value).

    Using the method I talk about here ... the only way the sound might get out-of-sync is if it has a large delay value to begin with.

    You can try giving it a 0 delay value using delaycut aka AC3 Delay Corrector.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Thank you for responding and yes the Audio is separated.
    DGIndex indicate that the delay is 0, as I would expect since the PAL dvd plays on the PC without noticeable sync problems.However at the end of authoring to NTSC (the current dvd) is 200mS ahead of the video.I tried Videoredo to adjust, but that app seems to cause video degradation to the project so I have been going back to TMPEGenc to correct.
    Can you give me a quick tutorial on 'delaycut'.The instructions are nonexistant and nonintuitive

    ------------RB
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  18. Hi-

    Many authoring apps allow you to set a delay when authoring. But if not, then AC3 Delay Corrector is very easy to use. Open the AC3, fill in the amount of the delay (in your case, 200 ms filled in in the "Start-Delay" box), and if a positive delay (as is true for you), also check the "Try Silence" box. Then hit "Write" and wait probably less than a minute.

    This assumes a positive delay. The words are heard before the lips move, or you hear the sound of the gun before the gun fires. This also assumes you're correct in saying it's a 200 ms delay.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    Hi-

    Many authoring apps allow you to set a delay when authoring. But if not, then AC3 Delay Corrector is very easy to use. Open the AC3, fill in the amount of the delay (in your case, 200 ms filled in in the "Start-Delay" box), and if a positive delay (as is true for you), also check the "Try Silence" box. Then hit "Write" and wait probably less than a minute.

    This assumes a positive delay. The words are heard before the lips move, or you hear the sound of the gun before the gun fires. This also assumes you're correct in saying it's a 200 ms delay.
    Thank you for the tips on 'Delay Converter'.I ran the audio through as suggested (with the 200mS delay) and it synced up with the video, I then viewed the authored VOB's in DVDShrink before burning.
    The particular delay (200 in this case) was derived from 'Videoredo', which allows real time adjustment of the audio during playback.The drawback which I find in this app. is that I get poor quality video output.I will compromise by using 'Videoredo' to note the audio adjustment factor and use' 'Delay Corrector' to do the actual adjustment.
    I might note that I have seen references, where audio sync problems occur, which infer that the problem is 'operator error' or 'not following instructions to the letter' and I don't neccessarily agree with that POV.
    In my own case, converting different PAL DVD's to NTSC, the sync delay is seldom the same each time, varying from 100mS to 500mS, even though the same programmes and settings are used each time.I would think that operator error in that case would produce consistent results and too many people are running into the problem to assume that we are all incompetent naifs
    That aside, I shall be using this super tutorial as my prime resource (except that I shall add Videoredo to collect the number for the audio adjustment).

    -----------------------RB.
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  20. Good, glad you got it sorted out. And thanks for reporting back.

    I might note that I have seen references, where audio sync problems occur, which infer that the problem is 'operator error' or 'not following instructions to the letter' and I don't neccessarily agree with that POV.

    Hehe, I'm one of those guys that doesn't understand people getting audio asynch, as I never see it myself. The beauty (one of them anyway) of DGPulldown is that both the audio and video stay exactly the same length, and there should be even less likelihood of audio problems when compared to the traditional method of slowing down both the audio and video when going from PAL to NTSC. The audio problems usually occur when converting AVIs, and usually involve VBR MP3 audio. You're converting from DVD2DVD, so there's even less of a reason to encounter audio problems, I would think. I forget exactly how FulciLives said to do it, but after decrypting the DVD to the hard drive, I demux using PGCDemux. You can check for any possible delay by hitting the "Check A/V Delay" button.
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    Originally Posted by manono


    Hehe, I'm one of those guys that doesn't understand people getting audio asynch, as I never see it myself. The beauty (one of them anyway) of DGPulldown is that both the audio and video stay exactly the same length, and there should be even less likelihood of audio problems when compared to the traditional method of slowing down both the audio and video when going from PAL to NTSC. The audio problems usually occur when converting AVIs, and usually involve VBR MP3 audio. You're converting from DVD2DVD, so there's even less of a reason to encounter audio problems, I would think. I forget exactly how FulciLives said to do it, but after decrypting the DVD to the hard drive, I demux using PGCDemux. You can check for any possible delay by hitting the "Check A/V Delay" button.
    Thank you for responding.I took your suggestion about PgcDemux and checked the the delay and it gave the same result as DGindex, ie no delay.Perplexed...and yet nice people provide software to resolve problems that shouldn't exist, thank god..

    -----------RB
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  22. Yeah, but just checking for the delay isn't enough. Sometime in the future, as an experiment, you might go ahead and do the whole conversion after demuxing with PGCDemux, and see whether or not you get an audio problem at the end. That is, after demuxing, go ahead and make the D2V from the M2V you get, and then follow the guide from there.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    Yeah, but just checking for the delay isn't enough. Sometime in the future, as an experiment, you might go ahead and do the whole conversion after demuxing with PGCDemux, and see whether or not you get an audio problem at the end. That is, after demuxing, go ahead and make the D2V from the M2V you get, and then follow the guide from there.
    Already a problem.I checked the output files from PCGDemux and they are obviously too small.
    M2V is only 38 seconds.Obviously I am not getting the whole video.

    What are the settings I need to select the whole DVD, I only seem to get the PGC which happens to be shown in the box, lower right.


    UPDATE::I tried another DVD (a movie) and PGC 1 corresponds to the actual length of the title.
    The PAL DVD I am converting is a six episode DVD (Still Game) and has a PGC file for each episode.Don't know how to get around that.
    -----RB
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  24. Aha! There's the reason for your audio asynch (maybe).

    The way you get around it is to demux each episode separately and encode each episode separately.

    First you choose the correct IFO for the episode(s), and then if you have more than one episode per VTS, choose the correct PGC for each episode in the dropdown box, save each to its own folder and take it from there. And don't forget to check each one for the A/V delay. If it's something other than zero, write it down for later. And don't forget to check the "Demux Video Stream" box.
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  25. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    With some DVD Videos ... especially episodic titles ... you need to use DVD Decrypter and use IFO mode.

    I didn't want to get too much into ripping with this guide though which is why I left that out

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    @ manono
    I processed the first episode on the DVD to the authoring stage and checked the playback with DVD Shrink.The audio was out of sync.
    The only PAL DVD's that I have converted to NTSC are episodic (TV series) so I cannot compare with a regular PAL movie DVD to see if they differ, but I shall check through the forums to try and pin it down.

    @FulciLives
    Ripping with Decrypter is basically the same process as manono advocates (with PCGDemux)?, ie one episode at a time.
    I haven't tried this as I suspect my result won't change.
    Even if it was a success, I fear that the time involved with six episodes would surpass the already labourious task of demuxing, authoring, adjusting audio and re-authoring the whole DVD in one shot, so I shall live with the problem.
    At least I know that it's fix-able and I thank both of you for your valuable assistance.

    Regards,................RB.
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  27. Well, I apologize then, sambat, for wasting your time. Just because I haven't ever seen the problem before doesn't mean it can't happen. And as you said, at least you know how to get around it. Thanks for reporting back.
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  28. Member vhelp's Avatar
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    Excuse me for buttin in here, but..

    I think that part of the reason for the "random" audio skew posts are
    on account of *that* source's GOP setup. I guess, that it all depends
    on where in the GOP the tool is actively "grabbing" the audio and sync'ing
    them in the process.. ie, -200ms, 20ms, etc.

    I'm pretty sure that if you used a dvd2avi tool, you would experience this
    delayed sync audio phenomina every time you tried saved a new project..
    using "selected area" as your video source project.

    I re-checked this on a dvd rip I had on my HDD, and I ran TWO test runs
    with a 144MB size vob file:

    Audio Delay post:
    1st pass: -239ms
    2nd pass: -203ms [selected area]

    As such, this is your cause of random delayed sync audio posts, and you
    have to remember to change it each time.

    -vhelp 3983
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  29. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    What vhelp just said seems to suggest or "back-up" what manono and I have said ... that using an IFO mode (be it DVD Decrypter or PGCDemux, etc.) should solve the audio sync issues.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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    Great tutorial! Worked like a charm. I have a question though. If I have an original PAL DVD that has a menu and chapters and I want to burn the NTSC DVD with the menu and chapters also, is it just a matter of following the same process for the .vob files for the menu video file using all the same software programs and converting to NTSC format, then import into Adobe Encore and relink the chapters and import both video files (menu and chapter mp2 files) to tie it all together? Am I making sense? In a nutshell, trying to figure out how to also convert the menu and chapter interface to the finished burned NTSC DVD in the easiest way possible. Thanks! nicole
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