Anyone try New Staples Brand 16x DVD+/-R disc? $8/50pk starting 5/7

[EatMoreChickens]

I noticed a NEW Staples Branded 16x disc today in new packaging w/ a matted surface label instead that ugly black lettering which was on their old 8x discs. Has anyone tried the new 16x discs yet? If so, what's the media codes? They're going on sale this coming Sunday for $8 per 50pk.

[OneSickPup]

Been hearing about that forthcoming sale for almost a week now. Here's a link to the only confirmed purchase of this media that I have found:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1401703&postcount=31

He only purchased the +R and it was CMC MAG.M01. The -R could be CMC MAG.AM3 but who knows. Past history would indicate that Staples will have more than one source of media where they had at least 4 mid's for 8x (CMC MAG.AE1 - CMC MAG.E01 - FUJIFILM03 - MBIPG101R04). I've used some CMC 8x media with decent success in some burners but have no experience with their 16x media. I'll defer comment to Lordsmurf, Gen-Am or some of the other guys with more media experience.

Hey - One good thing! They at least improved the writing surface!

[unclebud]

Just bought some of these in Ohio.

dvd-r
CMC MAG. AM3

dvd+r
CMC MAG M01

[zanos]

Only being read as 4x in my LG superdrive with the latest firmware. They're garbage.

[OneSickPup]

Only being read as 4x in my LG superdrive with the latest firmware. They're garbage.

I tried a spindle of the +R's (CMC MAG M01). I had a $5 off your next media purchase coupon so they cost me $2.98 plus tax. I have not had time to test much but early results don't look good. My Liteon 165H6S hates these things. The Benq 1650 and LG 4167B were usable. Have not tested on my Pioneers or Nec. I may have just got a bad spindle though. I had to toss two discs off the top that were deeply scratched around the outer disc edge. I suspect these were very roughly handled.

Zanos - which LG model do you have? My 4167B recognized them as 16x. I burned a couple at 12x. Did not even attempt 16x after seeing the results from earlier tests on my Liteon and Benq. From what I have seen over at CDFreaks.com I think the Benq 1640-1650-1655 have the best luck with this media.

[oldandinthe way]

My LG 4163B recognizes CMC MAG M01 with Memorex packaging as 16x. 100 disks so far, no coasters.

[lenti_75]

why bother when for 15 you get real media ????

this keeps to amaze me.....

[OneSickPup]

why bother when for 15 you get real media ????

this keeps to amaze me.....

I understand and for the most part agree. For personal use I use only Yuden..T02, TYG02, MCC 004 and MCC 03RG20. However; my wife teaches video production (among other things) and has over 40 students ranging in age from 15 to 18 years of age. Funding being what it is these days for most school systems, limits the ability to buy quality equipment and consumables. I'm a media junkie and enjoy experimenting. I'm on a never ending quest to find decent quality media at a great price for her and her students. I'll end up donating the majority of these to her students with the stipulation that they are not used for any mission critical applications. ....and then the quest continues.

[oldandinthe way]

To be frank, in 15 months of burning and at least a thousand disks I have found very few brands to be consistantly poor performing.

I have found high quality Verbatim MCC disks are lacking in quality control. With bad batches and exceptional batches. (10 out of 50 failing is a bad batch).

A look at the media reports strongly suggests that certain brands of writer are far more sensitive to "media quality" than others. Several of the brands which exhibit this sensitivity seem to be highly reliant on hacked firmware updates. And many seem to wear Japanese badges, which perhaps is why they prefer TY or MCC.

Time is an important issue and I make one time use of media in applications which others might use RW media because of the speed difference. So cost becomes an issue.

[solidsnake]

I just bought a package. I've never had problems with cheap media, but how do you find out the media codes on dvds? Is there a freeware program that will do that?

[Bodyslide]

Imgburn will tell you the media id.

[lordsmurf]

To be frank, in 15 months of burning and at least a thousand disks I have found very few brands to be consistantly poor performing
...................
A look at the media reports strongly suggests that certain brands of writer are far more sensitive to "media quality" than others. .

To be equally frank, that's not many discs at all. Not enough to be any sort of sample size. Burn a few thousand of EACH DISC out there and analyze at that time. And I refer to MEDIA ID and not the ever-increasing pointless "brand name".

Concerning the DVD burner, that is a statement against the burner. Such things do not affect the quality of the media's typical results, one way or the other. CMC can seemingly burn alright on NEC drives, but nothing else. That is a testament to unusual ability of the NEC, as well as a testament to the overall miserable experience of CMC (and the NEC actually has trouble on other good media like PRODISC and a few others). A BenQ burner likes to barf on MXL media, but that's a testament to the crappy quality of BenQ burners, and the typical MXL experience is one of success.

Most discs out there perform poorly (under 80% consistant quality), about 75% of them. The remaining 25% of discs are strong, and most of those do happen to come from Japan.

The MCC issue revolves around a number of issues. It's not as clear cut as "unstable QC" as you've put it. MCC is some of the best media made. Now whether your burner is good, or you buy Indian MCC, there are things to consider. Prodisc's MCC QC could be discussed, but it's not really an issue at this time.

Media is an advanced topic.

[jolo]

lordsmurf,

Something to remember. Liteon makes all of the CD and DVD reader/writers.

Also, Benq is turning over its entire optical division to Liteon also. So you can add them to the list.

A good article to read about Liteon and Benq, which effects Philips and HP etc can be read here:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16747

Then again I have purchased only Liteon reader/writers for the past few years and am convinced that the Liteon is the best and most reliable for price/performance. I remember replacing a Samsung for my son. The Liteon cost a lot less, was about 1/2 the weight and ran so much faster and used a lot less resources.

HP DVDs are also the same CMC MAG M01. Verbatim also has slipped some CMC media into their mix.

I don't think it is fair to generalize about CMC. They never manufacture under their own label, and they will make their media as good or crappy as the company they are making it for tells them.
CMC has opened plants in China and Mexico.

The China effect is massive in the media industry. Because someone like CMC from China can make DVD media from China at less than .10 each, there is great price pressure that is creating a lowering of quality from many of the vendors.
If buyers are just looking for the least expensive media, that will make more vendors go to China and not care about quality issues.

Vendors like TY are still at the top, but assumption of what used to be quality in media seem to be changing and quality is worsening.

When it comes to quality of media, I really don't see it as whether the media burns or not. Usually if some media craps out, it is due to PC issues, Disc fragmentation, garbage in RAM that can be fixed by a re-boot, having lots of RAM being used by startup programs, not having the latest firmware for your burner, having an older burner where the firmware isn't being upgraded anymore.

The quality of media shows up more by the shelf life of the media. When media is short on qualitym there is the possibility that one day, you put it in your PC and see nothing there. That is where TY excells.

The media market is changing SOOOOO fast currently.

If one doesn't really care about how long the digital data will last on their burnt media, I don't think it matters much what you get. BUT, for those doing backups and arching important data to them, like my family videos, tax records, important audio, financial records, etc that I want to last for years, I will make sure I get TY or a another vendor where the media is made in Japan.


Jon

[lordsmurf]

Liteon makes all of the CD and DVD reader/writers.

No.

Also, Benq is turning over its entire optical division to Liteon also. So you can add them to the list.

"will take over" does nto affect current and older BenQ/Philips drives.

am convinced that the Liteon is the best and most reliable for price/performance.

One of them, along with PIONEER and LG.

HP DVDs are also the same CMC MAG M01.

Can be. Can be others too. HP is a brand, nothing more.

Verbatim also has slipped some CMC media into their mix.

No. Not since 2x in 2003 or so.

I don't think it is fair to generalize about CMC. They never manufacture under their own label, and they will make their media as good or crappy as the company they are making it for tells them.

No. The brander often has ZERO INPUT on the actual product. They buy what they want, take it or leave it.

CMC has opened plants in China and Mexico.

No.

The China effect is massive in the media industry. .

Barely.

Because someone like CMC from China

CMC is Taiwanese.

If buyers are just looking for the least expensive media, that will make more vendors go to China and not care about quality issues.

Not the ONLY consideration. Remember reputation and returns. Nothing hurts more than getting back half your shipment as returns.

Vendors like TY are still at the top, but assumption of what used to be quality in media seem to be changing and quality is worsening.

No.

When it comes to quality of media, I really don't see it as whether the media burns or not. Usually if some media craps out, it is due to PC issues, Disc fragmentation, garbage in RAM that can be fixed by a re-boot, having lots of RAM being used by startup programs, not having the latest firmware for your burner, having an older burner where the firmware isn't being upgraded anymore.

No, no and no. Fragmentation has very little effect (buffers fix that). RAM is not an issue, not like that. Firmware also comes with a handful of "extended life" defaults. I can still burn certain 8x discs on my Pioneer 103 drive, burns are good. Not explicitly in the firmware.

The quality of media shows up more by the shelf life of the media.

One of several.

The media market is changing SOOOOO fast currently.

No, it barely changes at all. The media market from 2002-2006 has had few changes in terms of how things are done. At most, production is ramped up and soem of the details are different (materials, ratings grades, etc). This is one of several media myths.

If one doesn't really care about how long the digital data will last on their burnt media, I don't think it matters much what you get. BUT, for those doing backups and arching important data to them, like my family videos, tax records, important audio, financial records, etc that I want to last for years, I will make sure I get TY or a another vendor where the media is made in Japan.
Jon

And that's the gem right there. People who care will learn about good media, and buy it, and use it. It does not get easier than that.

[oldandinthe way]

LordSmurf

Take a look at the media reports on this site.

The bulk of the complaints about bad media come from users of NEC, Pioneer and BenQ drives. LG and Samsung Drives seem to be more tolerant. Lite-On seems to have more model differences. Looks like a much bigger sample size.

I am indeed suggesting that the model and manufacturer of the burner are a predictor of success in using various media.

Never used any Indian manufactured disks. The bad MCCs are Japanese. If I get one coaster in a 50 pack I will get 10. Then the next 50 will burn perfectly. And replacements Verbatim ships me will also burn perfectly. Almost everything else I have burned is Taiwanese. The really bad media have been 8x media which have the same media ID as other brands of 4x media (I wonder why they have been so bad?)

We both know there is no quality control on optical media, beyond some sampling of the finished product.

Manufacturers make heavy reliance on the reliability of their production process. If the volumes get large enough, and indeed they are growing (and the plant closure trend in areas other than far east continues), we are more likely to receive defective media.

[lordsmurf]

The bad MCCs are Japanese..

There are no Japanese MCC.

The really bad media have been 8x media which have the same media ID as other brands of 4x media .

What?



This whole thread is starting to feel like the Twilight Zone. Next thing you know, you'll be telling me USA stands for "Unified States of Argentina" and we have two moons, with Billy Bob Thorton as Chancellor.

[OneSickPup]

This thread started as a discussion about the new packaging and subsequent sale of Staples branded 16x media. We have since found out that this media is in fact CMC MAG M01 (+R) and CMC MAG AM3 (-R). The thread has seemingly taken on a much broader perspective which is fine and dandy. Some comments I can agree with and some I cannot. But Lordsmurf pointed out something very important that many of us posters tend to forget easily. He questioned another poster about the significance of his opinion because his opinion was based on findings where the sampling rate was too small. Let me give a personal example. I totally disagree with Lordsmurf that Benq drives are garbage. Of the 10 drives I currently own, 20% (2) are Benq's (1620 Pro and a 1650). I have found them to be very productive and versatile drives. However; I'm deriving my opinion from personal experience. Experience with only 2 of the countless thousands of Benq's manufactured. Hardly a sturdy foundation. You also have to weigh the credibility of some posts. I have often searched the dvd media section (<-- under Lists to the left) and have come away scratching my head. There are comments about media that make no sense whatsoever. You never know if the person commenting has a defective drive - outdated firmware - or even if he is posting in the right category. I've seen posts blasting Maxell MIJ where the attached scan clearly identified as Ritek. We will never reach 100% consensus here in the media forum on any topic. Just keep reading - keep posting and try to understand the different interesting perspectives that various posters offer. Thanks for listening.

[samijubal]

LordSmurf

Take a look at the media reports on this site.

The bulk of the complaints about bad media come from users of NEC, Pioneer and BenQ drives. LG and Samsung Drives seem to be more tolerant. Lite-On seems to have more model differences. Looks like a much bigger sample size.

I don't know where you get that from. My NEC will burn anything, even Optocrap.

[Zen of Encoding]

USA stands for "Unified States of Argentina" and we have two moons, with Billy Bob
Thorton as Chancellor.

No Way ! Billy Bob Thorton is not Chancellor of the USA, is he?
I'll have to get some Staples DVD's and record a few of his speeches.

[lordsmurf]

USA stands for "Unified States of Argentina" and we have two moons, with Billy Bob
Thorton as Chancellor.

No Way ! Billy Bob Thorton is not Chancellor of the USA, is he?
I'll have to get some Staples DVD's and record a few of his speeches.

Yeah, Elvis sang at his inauguration, at the national capital in Idaho.

[oldandinthe way]

Its hardly the twilight zone. UME01....... is a media code used by Mr. DVD for 4x DVD-R, Nexxtech 8x, PlayO 8x and Tessco 8x. General opinion - does not burn at 8x.

OPTODISCOR4 is used for 2.4x and 4x media
MEDIA ID001 is used for 2.4x and 4x media
YUDEN000T02 is used for 8x and 16x media Look at the ratings
VDSPMSAB001 is used on 4x and 8x media
NANYA...CHX is used on 4x and 8x media

If you doubt my suggestion that certain writers are more likely to have owners who find media to be excrement. On media in the DVD media list which have a mixed rating, look at the writers which have the most complaints.

All of the information exchanged on this site is anecdotal, none of it comes from scientifically designed studies with unbiased samples. But it is often useful in making decisions about what to buy and how to deal with problems encountered.

I claim no credit for my choice of writer, Gateway effectively chose it for me. But I'd gladly recommend it because it burns DVDs accurately and quickly on almost any media I choose to buy. The burned DVDs read on everything other than antique readers, and have shown no short term deterioration. (Too soon for long term effects)

A writer which requires frequent returns of "defective" media or mail-order purchase of "high quality" media at a higher than market price is not a good value.

If a writer meets and continues to meet these requirements its a "good" writer. If media works in a "good" writer it is "good" media. A rather simple minded approach but it allows me to focus and creating content.

[SingSing]

I am indeed suggesting that the model and manufacturer of the burner are a predictor of success in using various media.

Thank you, many had missed the important that great burner can burn nearly anything media. Many have spent too much talking on which crap/brand/media code/lalala... on media alone.

[oldandinthe way]

OneSickPup

Reading the media section requires some effort. Indeed the firmware is out of date on many of the poster's drives. But many of the folks who are posting problems have the LATEST firmware for their drive available from the manufacturer. Certain manufacturers don't bother to update their drives for new media. The problems reported by the poster are often only relevant to that manufacturer's drive.

Other posters are using hacked firmware (and often say so) because their manufacturer does not provide updates. The folks who hack the firmware may or may not have access to sufficient information to optimally set up the firmware tables. Results with hacked firmware are often only relevant to others with the same drive and firmware.

In general I ignore comments by owners of many drives and focus on those from owners of my drive or others from the same manufacturer.

When I do, most media loook pretty good.

[Zen of Encoding]

UME01....... is a media code used by PlayO 8x - does not burn at 8x.

As long as we're concentrating on anecdotal information, I'll confirm Smurf's
conjecture about NEC drives:

Playo 8X UME01 media code burns nicely at 8X with decently low PI\PO errors
in my NEC-3550A (stock 1.05F firmware).

[EatMoreChickens]

so getting back to the Staples disc. I tried the 16x on my Benq 1655 w/ BCGD and had better results w/ the DVD-R written at 12x compared to the DVD+R. I posted my disc scans at CDfreaks. btw, ppl w/ Lite-on drives were have a really difficult time w/ these disc, crazy jitter and PIE's.

so in sum, DVD-R>DVD+R, and BenQ>Lite-on for the Staples disc. btw, some ppl are claiming the 8x disc produce higher quality burns, but have you look at the tops of the discs? talk about fugly!

[OneSickPup]

so getting back to the Staples disc. I tried the 16x on my Benq 1655 w/ BCGD and had better results w/ the DVD-R written at 12x compared to the DVD+R. I posted my disc scans at CDfreaks. btw, ppl w/ Lite-on drives were have a really difficult time w/ these disc, crazy jitter and PIE's.

This was the best I ever did with my Liteon but it took some experimenting. That's a 12x burn with SB-HT-OHT on.

[lordsmurf]

With the right drive (NEC), with the right firmware, with CMC DVD+R burned at 4x or 8x, these discs may work for you for non-essential data. But it's not high quality media.

I would rather pay $8 per 25-pack of MIJ Sony discs (TY or SONY) and be done with it. I can burn those in most any drive, at any rated speed, and expect reliable results. Those are on sale at Best Buy, and I grabbed 3 spindles yesterday. Look in the back of the rack, you may get lucky and find some 8x MIJ YUDEN discs in the SONY packs. I did, 2 of my 3 were TY discs.

[OneSickPup]

With the right drive (NEC), with the right firmware, with CMC DVD+R burned at 4x or 8x, these discs may work for you for non-essential data. But it's not high quality media.

I would rather pay $8 per 25-pack of MIJ Sony discs (TY or SONY) and be done with it. I can burn those in most any drive, at any rated speed, and expect reliable results. Those are on sale at Best Buy, and I grabbed 3 spindles yesterday. Look in the back of the rack, you may get lucky and find some 8x MIJ YUDEN discs in the SONY packs. I did, 2 of my 3 were TY discs.

I agree 100%. My CMC MAG M01 shenanigans were purely experimental in nature and do nothing but reinforce what you said above. IMO, there is no better bargain on the market currently than the Sony branded DVD+R 8x (YUDEN00.T02). Burns well in every burner I've ever witnessed.