Thoughts on doomsday.

[AlecWest]

I'm not sure why but, for some reason, I decided to rent two old doomsday films - "The Day After" and "Testament." Anyhoo, in watching "The Day After," I noticed something and went to the website of Bruce Beach (a survivalist):

http://www.webpal.org

Assuming a Russian nuclear attack, he said the first thing they'd do is this:

Three submarine launched high altitude bursts evenly spaced over continental US to create EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) to knock out communications.

And, that's what I noticed in "The Day After" ... that prior to the bombs exploding over Kansas City, there was a high-altitude explosion ... after which, all electricity died (including circuitry in automobiles on the freeway).

Now ... assuming an EMP-resistant computer chip is only a fantasy (like in the James Bond films, "A View To A Kill" & "Goldeneye"), I see a big problem with that scenario. As I understand it, EMP would go in ALL directions - not just toward Earth but out into space. Therefore, it would affect not only an incoming missile's guidance system but its detonation circuitry as well. In short, if this scenario was followed, an incoming missile aimed at Detroit might veer off course and explode over a Manitoba prairie ... or it might make landfall (somewhere) and just not go off at all.

Does anyone know if an EMP-resistant chip really exists ... or is it still in the realm of James Bond type gadgetry?

[adam]

Electromagnetic Pulses are just that, a brief pulse that disables electrical equipment within its range. That quote says that the pulses would be in high altitude, not space, and that they would be spread out across the US. None have enough of a radius to affect even the entire US much less the attacking country far away. Once they've done their job they are gone. There's nothing to stop someone from sending in new electrical equipment, in the form of more bombs, guided by systems not effected by those pulses.

You could fire all the bombs at once and have them synced to reach their targets and explode simultaneously or you could fire them one at a time. Either way the bombs would never be effected by the brief pulses.

[AlecWest]

Electromagnetic Pulses are just that, a brief pulse that disables electrical equipment within its range.

How brief? In "The Day After," the autos on the freeway were still immobile when the bombs over Kansas City exploded. However, the impression I got was that the pulse not only "affected" circuits but "damaged" some.

That quote says that the pulses would be in high altitude, not space, and that they would be spread out across the US.

The quote said only 3 would be required. This indicates to me that the effective range is close to 800 miles (again, in all directions ... not just down to Earth). If they didn't have that effective range, how would 3 pulses be enough? This is from an Internet primer by the Federation of American Scientists, "The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air."

...guided by systems not effected by those pulses.

Hmmm ... system examples?

[adam]

How brief? In "The Day After," the autos on the freeway were still immobile when the bombs over Kansas City exploded. However, the impression I got was that the pulse not only "affected" circuits but "damaged" some.

No, its the pulses that are brief. The damage they cause is permanent. Say you've got one that can wipe out all of the US. All electrical equipment is now dead. But you can drive a car in from let's say South America and it can go anywhere in the US and be fine. The EMP is gone.

The quote said only 3 would be required. This indicates to me that the effective range is close to 800 miles (again, in all directions ... not just down to Earth). If they didn't have that effective range, how would 3 pulses be enough? This is from an Internet primer by the Federation of American Scientists, "The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air."

Yes in all directions but what does that matter? The same is true with any kind of explosion. You'd place them so that their outer radius'es just cover the intended target. I don't see why you couldn't keep it confined more or less to the US. Either way, if you are attacking from a completely different continent than there is no way you'd be effected.

Hmmm ... system examples?

Anything originating from outside the EMP pulse range. So it could be bombs or missles fired from the attacking country that are guided by systems in that country or by satellites in space.

[yoda313]

Hmm... adam are you a military lawyer by any chance? You seem to know your stuff there

[AlecWest]

Adam,

OK, I think I understand what you're saying now. If they sent in an EMP device to explode first, they'd just have to make sure the follow-up missiles were outside of the EMP's range (though still moving rapidly). As fast as those missiles fly, a three-minute difference would suffice.

It would be interesting, however, if they miscalculated the timing on their EMP missiles (grin). What a bummer it would be to have the guidance and detonation systems compromised on a few hundred or thousand incoming missiles ... having them blow up Mt. Rushmore instead of Bismarck, North Dakota ... or having them just "thud" on their targets without exploding.

Still, my question remains unanswered. Are there EMP-resistant computer chips or are they still just a James Bond fantasy?

[AlecWest]

P.S. BTW, Beach's site is most interesting. Most people think it's impossible to survive a nuclear war. But as long as a person gets the appropriate shelter from thermal radiation and fallout (and has the appropriate supplies in that shelter), it's doable. Until I visited his site, I didn't realize how fast most fallout decays.