Convert 29.971 NTSC to 25 PAL?

[SnapCount]

Hi guys, Ive got a big problem when trying to convert a avi doco. The thing is encoded in 29.971 fps. I used a current tutorial for converting a 23 fps clip to 25fps. Using that for 23fps clips is fine, no problem. The problem is when I want to convert a 29fps clip.

I use VirtualDubMod to strip the video and audio, while in VirtualDubMod I also convert the video stream to 25fps and use BeSweet for audio - selecting the 29.97fps instead of the 23fps option.

When I play them both together its in sinc, but it seems like the audio and video has been slowed down and its like the people are talking in slow motion

The doco is in avi format, DivX @ 29.971

Im trying to get this file onto DVD too, which I know how to do, just need this little problem fixed.

Can anyone help me??

[guns1inger]

Why are you converting it to PAL ? Your DVD player will, in all likelihood, playback NTSC material - most DVD players in Australia do.

I very rarely do format conversions because they aren't necessary unless you need to put NTSC and PAL material on the same disc (and even then, there are way around it).

[manono]

Yeah, plus, although 23.976fps can be converted to 25fps without any great difficulty, converting true 29.97fps to 25fps gives you a blended mess. If you want to attempt it, you might try a variation of one of Xesdeeni's AviSynth scripts:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/?200625

Your current method isn't so good.

[Bjs]

Go into ebay and grab a copy of ulead video studio 9 se for $30au ... cover's everything you will need , and perfect frame rate conversion's ... never a miss .

Avisynth is a hit and miss ...

[manono]

Avisynth is a hit and miss ...

If you don't know what you're doing, maybe. But I'll guaran-damn-tee you that in the hands of a skilled user, it's better than anything that Ulead can come up with. And you don't have to waste money on it.

[SnapCount]

Thx for all the help guys . The reason why im converting it is because while my DVD player can play NTSC, my tv cant I really do need to get a new TV, but for the moment Im converting ntsc stuff to pal.

With Avisynth, I dont have a clue on what to do or what commands to put into the text file. But doesnt Avisynth only do video and not audio?

[SnapCount]

Go into ebay and grab a copy of ulead video studio 9 se for $30au ... cover's everything you will need , and perfect frame rate conversion's ... never a miss .

Avisynth is a hit and miss ...

Ulead doesnt have any problems with converting DviX files? And doesnt have problems with 29.97 > 25fps?

[manono]

OK, here's an AviSynth script for you. Install AviSynth. Go get the LeakKernelDeint.dll here:

http://neuron2.net/kerneldeint/leakkerneldeint154.zip

And use a variation of this script (adjusting for your paths):

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
AVISource("C:\Path\To\Video.avi",False)#False disables the audio. Convert it separately and add back during authoring
SeparateFields()
Weave()
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
ConvertToYUY2()#if using ConvertFPS
ConvertFPS(50)#or ChangeFPS(50), see which looks better to you.
LanczosResize(720,576)#adjust if you need to crop and/or addborders
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB24(Interlaced=true)#for encoding in TMPGEnc, ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=true) for CCE

Open the script in VDub(Mod) before sending to the encoder. If there's something wrong with the script, VDubMod will throw an error message that will help pinpoint the error. Go File->File Information and check the framerate and resolution to make sure it's DVD compliant. Find a place with motion and make sure it plays smoothly, and looks decent. You have to remember that nothing's going to make a 29.97fps->25fps video look all that great. The best you can hope for is that it'll play smoothly and look reasonably good.

The video's length will stay the same, so the audio doesn't have to be stretched. After demuxing the audio, just convert to MP2 or AC3 and add it back during authoring.

Edited to add the ConvertToYUY2() (thanks guns1inger), and to fix some small mistakes.

[SnapCount]

ok manono, I'll give that a try. Let you know how it turns out

[SnapCount]

Im getting an error when I open the file in VDub(Mod).

Avisynth open failure:
ConvertFPS: requires YUY2 input
(C:\whywefight.avs, line 6)

[guns1inger]

Drop a ConvertToYUY2() before the ConvertFPS line

[hrlslcbr]

What about assuming fps to convert 29.971 to 30, do a temporal interpolation to create 4 new frames between 2 original frames, and then selecting 1 frame out of 6?
29.971 -> 30 -> 150 -> 25?
Tried it a couple of times...

[SnapCount]

What about assuming fps to convert 29.971 to 30, do a temporal interpolation to create 4 new frames between 2 original frames, and then selecting 1 frame out of 6?
29.971 -> 30 -> 150 -> 25?
Tried it a couple of times...

WOW this is like learning a new language. I dont have a clue on what you just said

[hrlslcbr]

You create new frames of video with interpolation (so you get 150 fps when you originally had 30), and then select one out of 6 frames to get 25 frames per second.

[manono]

Drop a ConvertToYUY2() before the ConvertFPS line

Thanks, guns1inger. I forgot that ConvertFPS has to be YUY2 already. I wish they'd fix that sometime.

What about assuming fps to convert 29.971 to 30, do a temporal interpolation to create 4 new frames between 2 original frames, and then selecting 1 frame out of 6?
29.971 -> 30 -> 150 -> 25?

For one thing, the length of the video will change, the audio will have to be stretched, and that throws another monkey wrench into the equation. For another, although keeping it progressive is a fine idea, and doing "temporal interpolation" is also a fine idea, the tools that can do this in AviSynth aren't easy to use, even for experienced users, and the encoding will be incredibly slow. I assume you're using MVTools for the job, followed by a decimation of some sort. Be my guest, if you want to teach SnapCount how to do it. The results will undoubtably be much better. Me, I was just trying to make it reasonably simple for an AviSynth rookie, by showing him the traditional method, unsatisfactory though it is.

Sorry, but personally I don't think that stating there's a better way without explaining in detail how to do it is all that helpful.

[SnapCount]

Well guys, just like to say thank you very much for your help . After 3 hours of rendering and creating a DVD, all is good, the video is nice and crisp with no jerkiness, and there is no problem with audio sync

[manono]

Good, thanks for reporting back, SnapCount. Being an NTSC guy, I don't cconvert to PAL. But I can point out this thread if someone asks the same question in the future. Thanks again.

[hrlslcbr]

Yes manono. As you say, it is a much more difficult way of doing the same thing, and if SnapCount is happy with the results, I think it's better not to try to explain this
PS. I just came up with that idea one day, tried it and got good results, but I haven't tried it with more important projects.

[Bjs]

Another method is to use GUI4FFMPEG ... work's well from recent test conversion's .