squeezing 90 mins of audio onto a cd

[devdev]

Hi guys

i have a client whose audio cassette tapes - including both sides vary between 70 and 90 mins in duration.

he wants them transferred to a cd so that he can play them in his car..

At present i have a cdr recorder - marrantz

Does anyone have any ideas as to how i could achieve this?

thank you in advance

[hech54]

The only way to fit 90 minutes to a CD-R is buy using 90 minute CR-R's....but those are not readily available in the U.S. and require a computer to use/burn them. It also depends on the burner and the software as well unfortunately.

[Barnabas]

You might be able to edit out the pauses to cut down the time.

[kschang]

And there's no guarantee that regular CD players can play those 90-min CD-R's. They *should*.

[hech54]

And there's no guarantee that regular CD players can play those 90-min CD-R's. They *should*.

True.
I've yet to have a problem with them...they even play in my factory Volkswagen
car players....surprised me too...

[yoda313]

That's definetely not the norm. I've played with the 90, and 99min cdr's but found only computers can play them in my circumstances.

Definetely better off getting a mp3 player OR a cd player that can read mp3 files. Then you can fit 700mb of mp3 files on to the cdr and the specialized cdplayer can read them. You can get them in the portable style as well as boombox and car cd varieties. Make sure it says MP3 compatible on them. Then you just burn the disc in data mode and drag and drop the mp3's on them and boom - you've got hours on a disc.

[devdev]

great responses - thanks!!!

Does the mp3 route mean that i could record in terms of time as much as the 700mb would permit?

and would most cd players that played mp3 play them irrespespective of how long they are?

[yoda313]

If its an MP3 compatible cd player it will read them exactly as a computer would.

You could set the bitrate to any rate. You can use anything from 32kbps to 320kbps. If you do 128kbps mp3 mode you'll get approximately a 1mb a minute of audio. Then just do your calculation from there. WMA (which most but not all mp3 cdplayers will read) can do 64kbps of good quality audio at about a half a megabyte a minute of audio.

You can have a single track run for whatever length of time until it fills the disc and it will play it straight through.

[edDV]

You can use a audio editor like Soundforge to speed the file (while adjusting for pitch). A 90 min program can thus be shortened to an under 80 min. wav for burning to a normal CD.

There are probably less expensive programs that do the same.

[yoda313]

Is that still in the specs for redbook audio though? Does that make it an off spec audio cd?

[edDV]

Audacity "change speed" will shorten the wav file and correct pitch. Audcity is free.

Just use the shortened file to author the redbook audio CD.

[Cobra]

Is that still in the specs for redbook audio though? Does that make it an off spec audio cd?

I don't think it changes the sampling frequency, just the speed that it is played back at. Adjusting for pitch means that it won't get higher, either, but it will simply be as if the band were playing to a higher tempo.

I did it once and it wasn't a problem, just a little strange to hear songs a bit quicker than normal.

[Noahtuck]

And there's no guarantee that regular CD players can play those 90-min CD-R's. They *should*.

True.
I've yet to have a problem with them...they even play in my factory Volkswagen
car players....surprised me too...

I used to buy 99min CD-R's in 100 packs, burned hundreds of them, everyone i have ever made worked in every dvd player, every car cd player and every standalone cd player all the way down to $20 cheapo boom boxes.

They are great for getting a whole concert tranfered to cd without having to use 2 standard cd-r's.

Long ago i used to use them for VCD's from DVD's.

You can find them online mail order for pretty cheap.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Ritek stopped making 99min CD-R's but you can still find 90min CD-R's at www.meritline.com

[hech54]

And there's no guarantee that regular CD players can play those 90-min CD-R's. They *should*.

True.
I've yet to have a problem with them...they even play in my factory Volkswagen
car players....surprised me too...

I used to buy 99min CD-R's in 100 packs, burned hundreds of them, everyone i have ever made worked in every dvd player, every car cd player and every standalone cd player all the way down to $20 cheapo boom boxes.

They are great for getting a whole concert tranfered to cd without having to use 2 standard cd-r's.

Long ago i used to use them for VCD's from DVD's.

You can find them online mail order for pretty cheap.

Me too actually.
I haven't made "hundreds" of them...I'm in the dozens category still and no problems even from the few people I've sent some of them to like family and friends. I still cannot emphasize enough that your burner and burning software are the key to burning these things. There is so little info available on burning CDR's that are above 74/80 min...it is pathetic. Everyone confuses overburning a 74/80 minute CDR with burning a 90min CDR...and that is completely wrong.
The only reason I do not buy a Pioneer 110 DVD burner is because...according to their official specs...they do not recognize 90min CDR blanks. Not all burners can recognize the discs as having 90 minutes available to burn. My LG4040B recognizes 90 minutes available to burn on these discs...but my BenQ 1620Pro sees them as 80 minute....in the same software (Prassi Ones). Even LG's official specs only ocasionally list their drives as available to recognize 90 minute discs...though if you look REALLY hard to find the specs...almost all LG's can do this.

[Noahtuck]

And there's no guarantee that regular CD players can play those 90-min CD-R's. They *should*.

True.
I've yet to have a problem with them...they even play in my factory Volkswagen
car players....surprised me too...

I used to buy 99min CD-R's in 100 packs, burned hundreds of them, everyone i have ever made worked in every dvd player, every car cd player and every standalone cd player all the way down to $20 cheapo boom boxes.

They are great for getting a whole concert tranfered to cd without having to use 2 standard cd-r's.

Long ago i used to use them for VCD's from DVD's.

You can find them online mail order for pretty cheap.

Me too actually.
I haven't made "hundreds" of them...I'm in the dozens category still and no problems even from the few people I've sent some of them to like family and friends. I still cannot emphasize enough that your burner and burning software are the key to burning these things. There is so little info available on burning CDR's that are above 74/80 min...it is pathetic. Everyone confuses overburning a 74/80 minute CDR with burning a 90min CDR...and that is completely wrong.
The only reason I do not buy a Pioneer 110 DVD burner is because...according to their official specs...they do not recognize 90min CDR blanks. Not all burners can recognize the discs as having 90 minutes available to burn. My LG4040B recognizes 90 minutes available to burn on these discs...but my BenQ 1620Pro sees them as 80 minute....in the same software (Prassi Ones). Even LG's official specs only ocasionally list their drives as available to recognize 90 minute discs...though if you look REALLY hard to find the specs...almost all LG's can do this.

Yeah, i was wondering how yoda was doing them.....

That's definetely not the norm. I've played with the 90, and 99min cdr's but found only computers can play them in my circumstances.

LG was my first cd burner years ago that supported overburning the larger cd-r's, i actually still have it, it still works great

[yoda313]

Oh no I could BURN them noahtuck I just didn't have any players that could READ them.

[aedipuss]

i'm in yoda313's boat also, i can burn 90/99's but nothing i have will play them. iirc the biggest problem with them is the aren't red/orange book standard. the sector address of anything over 80 min. is in the leadin area of cds and will confuse most players and the atip can only hold a number up to 79:59:74.

[Noahtuck]

Oh no I could BURN them noahtuck I just didn't have any players that could READ them.

Yeah i got that, i was wondering how you were doing them as per my previous post

i'm in yoda313's boat also, i can burn 90/99's but nothing i have will play them. iirc the biggest problem with them is the aren't red/orange book standard. the sector address of anything over 80 min. is in the leadin area of cds and will confuse most players and the atip can only hold a number up to 79:59:74.

All i can say is what i said before....

I used to buy 99min CD-R's in 100 packs, burned hundreds of them, everyone i have ever made worked in every dvd player, every car cd player and every standalone cd player all the way down to $20 cheapo boom boxes.

They are great for getting a whole concert tranfered to cd without having to use 2 standard cd-r's.

I still have about 50 or so 99min cd-rs on hand, burned some maybe about 2 months ago.

I have always used nero for making my music cd's and i have never had a problem playing them back in anything.

The only thing i use them for anymore is what i stated before, transfering concert dvd's to music cd without breaking them across 2 standard cd-rs.
But used to use them for vcd's to squeeze a whole movie onto one disc. never had a problem with them.

[hech54]

1) Again...fitting 88 minutes to a 90 minute CDR...when your burner and software recognize 90 minutes available to burn is NOT overburning.
2) If your 90minute CDR's do not play in anything...then you burned them incorrectly....IE...your burner and software are not capable of reading their entire capacity. If you needed to select "overburn" somewhere along the line....that is your problem since overburning infringes apon the lead-in area to achieve it's burn....you are not infringing on any lead-in data burning a 90 minute CDR with software and a burner that recognizes 90 minutes available to burn.

I'm also told that music CD's that we buy that have extra material like videos and links to websites and stuff(Enhanced CD's?) are also not red/orange - whatever standard...yet they play in most players young and old and are sold everywhere and often.

[vitualis]

The problem with 90 and 99 min CDs is that they have a "tighter spiral" with the data. Although this is still often within the tolerances for many CD players, if you add on the problem that many players have difficulty reading CD-R discs, this can lead to an unreadable disc.

From my experience, most players that can play CD-R discs okay read 90 minute discs mostly okay, though some have difficulty towards the end. However, 99 min discs are a different kettle of fish and the "strike rate" of having players that can read them is significantly lower.

Regards.

[hech54]

I don't think I would try 99 minutes CDR's.
MAYBE for data....but not music.

[ark]

Devdev

From all the feedbacks you might be highly confused by this time. I will summarize for you:-
1) 90 or 99 minutes CDs would hold only that many minutes of audio if recorded as CDDA. You will need to get hold of, now scarce, 90 or 99 min, CD-Rs + burn them using overburn - not supported by all burners and all softwares. The pitch of the track is tighter and the laser head may skip sections while playing. Most of the standalone players would handle these disks, a few do not.
2) Better route is to squeeze using MP3 or WMA. 128kbps 44.1KHz MP3 is suppossedly equivalent to CDDA quality. You have to calculate the minutes that could be fitted on to a CD-R by 1MB/min formula. A 74min CD-R gives you 650MB to store, 80min CD-R would give you 702MB. MP3 standalone CD players are very easy and inexpensive to get these days. Standalone WMA CD players are few at the moment. Burning would be straight forward as data files - you have to burn al the files in one go - mind you or the standalone would stop playing at the end of the first track.

[RabidDog]

I wouldnt recommend 64kb wma to anyone even if they are cassette tape transfers. As to speeding up the music (!!!!!) . Go for at least 192k mp3 preferably 256 or 320.
As to 99min cdr I used to be a great fan, until I went out and bought my DVD burner (guess what, wont read them, wont burn them and wont even recognize the blank media) strike rate for playback was about 80% (that was svcds & audio ) 90 min was far better. yeah remember to burn in "disc at onc" mode not multisession

[hech54]

Devdev

From all the feedbacks you might be highly confused by this time - burn them using overburn

You are not helping either.
If your burner and software recognize 90 minutes
available....it is NOT overburning. Both my burner
and software recognize 90 minutes available and I
have never used the overburn option to create my
CD's.

[moviebuff2]

Hi everyone

Would someone please explain to me how one can reduce the time of a wave file without affecting its original tempo?

For example, if a song is originally intended to last 6 minutes, wouldn't shortening it to 5 minutes make the singer sing too fast, even at the correct pitch?

Thanks

[ark]

You will definitely get Chipmunks effect in the pitch. "Pitch" is the word used earlier to define the frequency of the audio. If you are trying to squeeze the same amount of playback into a shorter duration, definitely the audio frequency (and therefore the pitch) would go up. Don't even think of trying it.

[moviebuff2]

Hi

I posted my question because I read in 1 or 2 posts above, time stretching and pitch were mentioned.

FYI, there are softwares that allow you to manipulate time stretching and pitch independently from one another. So, you won't necessarily get the "chipmunk" effect.

Cheers

[oldfart13]

LG 4163B burner recognizes discs up to 94 minutes and Nero software burns them just fine. My friend does these for a fanzine of his and hasn't had any reports from anyone in the world where the zine goes that they are unable to play the discs. If people aren't using the right hardware/software, then that's where the problem lies. Also, blankmedia.ca sells these longer length discs. A great place to deal with...

[devdev]

devdev here again

Yes i'm a little confused but dead grateful for the quality of contribution/debate - thank you all

is there such a a thing as non software version of a mp3 recorder of cds then that could possibly work with the 80 min cdrs? ie like a dvd recorder?