Problems capturing....video craps out first, then audio

[NoAffinity]

System is:
Abit IS7-E2 (865 chipset)
P4-M 532 (3.06 Ghz, clocked to 3.2 GHz @ 200 mhz FSB)
2x512 generic PC4200
XFX Geforce 6600GT
Audigy 2 zs
1x 80GB WD SATA 8mb 7200 RPM system drive
1x 250GB WD SATAII 16mb 7200 RPM capture drive
Plextor px-av100u
Lifeview FlyTV 30 (or something like that...S-video/RCA/audio capture card that I bought on ebay for $30)
Windows XP (fully updated)

Here's my issue. I capture a/v for about 2-3 minutes with no problem. It looks great, sound is synced, and I would be ecstatic if I could be freely capturing the same content for more than 2-3 minutes. At approximately 2-3 minutes, the video will hang on a single frame, with the sound continuing to be captured. After another 1-2 minutes, sound craps out, and video continues to be stuck. The video will progress a frame or two every couple minutes, if I allow the capture to continue. The live footage is flawless for the most part. Intervideo's preview will hang on occassion when the same is happening with the capture, but all other programs continue to show a flawless preview.

I am getting the video signal from an RGB->S-video/RCA converter, which I have wired to an arcade cabinet. I use strictly S-video. The arcade cabinet runs an Xbox (via Ultimarc's adapter, if any of you are familiar with arcade hardware and DIY stuff out there), and the signal for video is spliced off of a JAMMA connector. The audio comes through a mixer (although, I have pulled it straight from the cabinet amp, as well).

I have tried using VLC, InterVideo DVD Creator 2 (provided with the Plextor device), Real Alternative and VirtualDub, all with the same result. I just reformatted and re-installed XP to my system drive, thinking maybe there were issues with the installation (it's been a while since I re-installed anyway). I have tried every combination of video and audio capture, through the two video capture device (for audio and video), my sound card (for the audio), and onboard sound (for the audio). I have tried different compressions for both video and audio, and tried capturing raw content. I have tried different resolutions (from 320x240 to 720x576). I have tried the suggestions of eliminating all startup programs and disabling internet. No matter what I do, it's always the same result.

sorry for the long-windedness, but I don't want to leave any crucial details out. Any advice, help, etc, greatly appreciated.

[zoobie]

Try more cappers like
WinDV
DVIO
VirtualVCR

[redwudz]

No matter what your computer specs, that sounds like a common case that the computer cannot keep up with your capture card. You might want to check the Task Manager to see what might be running that could be interfering with the capture. If your CPU is constantly at 100%, that would explain your problem. If it's not, then the problem is likely your capture card. The other possibility is a slow hard drive. I see this problem more commonly with a 700Mhz CPU. You've got a problem somewhere.

[NoAffinity]

Thank you for the repsonses. I tried VirtualVCR, and it did the same thing. It showed frames dropping almost immdiately, and they kept dropping until I killed it at about 2 minutes. The capture itself was fine, tho. The other two programs are strictly for DV capture, it appears?

My cpu runs at about 7-13% while capturing, and nothing abnormal seems to be happening in task manager. Notice that the same occurs for either the capture card or the USB capture device, and I think my capture hard drive (see specs above) should be up to par...?

[SHS]

A few possable
1: Bad cable
2: Your not on ture USB2 Port try the one's under try NIC input
3: Don't use a USB hub
4: To min USB device sharing USB Port
5: Did you enable the USB2 Contorller in the bios
6: Install the lates Chipset drivers.

Other possable may have something to do with the hardware
for starter your Motherboard dosen't support SATAII.

[FulciLives]

Sounds like you have a shit capture card.

What did you expect for $30 ???

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Bjs]

Shs : 3: Don't use a USB hub = rubbish .

My avertv usb2 require's 1 amp of current which max's out system usb buss current ... not using hub power supply can result in "usb overload , system reset warning" ... from here , you might as well replace the motherboard , because capture will be rubbish .

Capture's perfectly connected to usb below mouse and keyboard input .

The pc spec's show it to be fast enough for just about anything one can throw at it , so it's not the issue , but be aware of norton's anivirus if installed , it will slow down even the fastest pc's to a crawl ...

I would , seeing's how it happen's at around the same time length within any capture program , be heading in the direction of an overheating problem with the capture device .

While "Lifeview FlyTV" do work well under xp , there are better ... I find the picture captured retain's far too much grain for my liking , and I had the stereo 3000 unit while back .

Did you get the original cd , as supplied with card ?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Test :

1: Turn pc off .
2: Remove card .
3: Restart pc , then uninstall product's and driver's associated with device .
4: Reboot pc to clear .
5: Reinstall device product's and driver's .
6: Shutdown pc and reinstall card .

Xp should pick it up from here .

Also note the number of free slot's system has on motherboard .

If mb has 3 pci slot's , then
Pci next to agp cannot be used (agp and pci1 use shared resource's , also applie's to onboard agp)
Leaving 2 pci .
You can only use 1 as pci2 and pci3 share resource's ...

These you need too think about as it can be at the bottom of the card's issue .

I have seen pc's where all the slot's were taken up ... dell , your idiot's ...

It could be as simple as the device being in the wrong slot on mb , as a result , it is sharing resource's from another device which it should not be doing in the first place ... bring us back to the over heating problem .

Check the wattage of you power supply in the pc , this can also become a factor ... I wouldn't be running anything less than 480watt's .

Last , run system cpu at spec speed only ... these do cause issue's and void any warrantee .

If after all these consideration's have been taken into account ... the card is not waht you expected .

You could try cleaning the contact's on the card , then reinstall , and retest it as a last chance , but if that dosent help ... you were sold junk .

Considering how cheap these card's are , in most cases under $100.00 , you should save your money and buy something new ... atleast it is covered under warrantee if it dosent perform as advertised .

[SHS]

Bjs keep in mind that not all USB hub are the made the same some self-powered and bus-powered and some support both it and some USB hub not provides a full 500 mA to each port so it not rubbish.

[NoAffinity]

I am aware that the motherboard does not support SATAII, but expect that the drive's increased buffer (16mb) and performing at SATA standards should be enough for the capture. I also did not expect super HD+ resolution (yes, I'm making that standard up), nor even the greatest image quality even at 640x480...or even 320x240 for that matter...but was certainly not expecting that I would not be able to capture continuously past 2-3 minutes. I do not get any messages about USB bus overvoltage (I am familiar with this message, from when I tried to convert an Xbox arcade stick to USB once...unsuccessfully, as you can gather), and I'm inclined to think Plextor would have powered this device externally, were power going to be an issue. I do not have an anti-virus installed as of yet, just in case that might have been the issue previously. I have 4 USB ports on the mobo's rear i/o panel, all 4 of which are populated (mouse, external DVD +-RW, arcade stick, and Plextor device)...but I would think this would not be more than the system or USB controller can handle (what's the approximated bitrate of the stream....like 8-10mB/s @ 640x480?). USB 2.0 is enabled in BIOS. I have checked for potential overheating (I had speculated on this previously, as well), and during capture, CPU heatsink is marginally warm, and both northbridge and soutbridge are barely warm...and my chassis is very well ventilated, with 2 rear 80mm's, one front 80mm, a 120mm blowing directly on AGP, PCI's and nortbridge, and a 90mm on a Zalmann copper heatsink on CPU.

I got a CD with the capture card (can't remember if it was original or not), but a .sys file was missing from the installation. If I recall correctly, I downloaded all available software from the manufacturer's site, and burned a working CD once I had installed the device successfully. I did do a fresh install of XP, prior to posting originally, after which I followed the exact instructions outlined above for software/driver install (install software first, reboot, power down, install device, boot up, let Windows install automatically). The current layout of PCI devices is different than it was prior to re-installing XP (ergo, the same thing is happening with my 2 pci devices populating different slots), but I will try switching them around again and keep the recommendations in mind. Power supply is 550w TTGI SuperFlower (there are 2 versions, this one has the beefier 12v rail), and the rails hold strong even under heavy load.

Hopefully this provides further info as to what it might be. I am a LAN manager/PC tech by trade, and would like to believe that I have taken care of at least that end of the troubleshooting process as best as could be expected. My knowledge in the AV/capture realms is still growing, tho. All input is appreciated.

[FulciLives]

You are going about this all wrong ... thinking that there is a solution.

What you have to realize is that in the world of computer video there are MANY products that claim they do this or that and half of them DO NOT work correctly.

Yes it is a sad state of affairs but that is the way it is.

You need a real capture card. There are only a few that really truely work well.

If you want I'll go over some of the cards known to work well ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[NoAffinity]

I am more than willing to accept that, and at this point, I am gladly accepting it. I just want to point out that it is contradictory to what is stated in one of this section's stickies (which, heretofore is what I was basing my approach/assumptions upon):

5. If a card always dropped, the manufacturer would have never shipped it. It's on your end. Figure it out. Quit blaming XYZ's "horrible" card and then praising ABC's "wonderful" card because your luck/knowledge changed after replacement. (When a driver is speeding down the road, nearly running you over, you don't blame the car - it's the user's fault.) If there really was a problem, there'd be a recall or update. Have you checked the Web site for updates? ...And yes, I know this doesn't always apply, but it does most of the time.

So, please forgive me if I was assuming that either device, while not necessarily producing the best possible final image, would at least do what they are advertised to.

Now, if you wouldn't mind going over the "known goods", or even just pointing me in the direction of previously posted info (as I'm sure it's been discussed to no end already), I would certainly be appreciative.

:edit: btw, am I correct in my calculations that @ 640x480, the bitrate should be about 8-10mB/s? Any info on how to calculate this would be greatly appreciated, as well.

[Nelson37]

You mention you are overclocking? Stop doing that, I would think that would have been first on your list to test. This could definitely be the source of your problem.

You state BOTH capture devices fail, at resolutions as low as 320x240. BE SPECIFIC - In the same amount of time, or slightly longer for the lower resolution? Can you go even lower for testing purposes? This is to test if data throughput is the issue.

Are you capturing to the D: drive and NOT the OS drive?

Am not familiar with your capture source, but seems a rather convoluted chain of hardware. Rule #1 is Minimize the Variables. Can you capture direct from a cable or satellite source?

Also try capturing video with no audio whatsoever. It could be a timing issue with the sound card. Disconnect audio, disable audio in capture and/or disable the sound card for test.

Seems you have read the sticky on Dropping Frames. Have you applied all the suggestions, and/or are there any which you were unable to implement?

[NoAffinity]

To clarify the overclocking, this is a mobile chip on a desktop board. The board detects the multiplier lower than it should be, so bus speed needs to be raised to achieve stock operating frequency. Stock multiplier for this CPU is 23 and stock FSB is 133mhz, but on a desktop board, the multi is detected as 15. So, I have to increase FSB to 200 to achieve stock operating frequency. I will try 133 mhz FSB, but then it will be running much slower.

The results are the same, regardless of the resolution. I have done the majority of my testing at 640x480, but the same results occur at 320x240. I haven't noticed any major differences when going to different resolutions. The only time I did get continuous capture (about 20 minutes), the audio was indeed disabled....however, on consequent attempts w/ audio disabled, the same problem has occurred.

I do capture strictly to the D: (non-OS) drive. I will try capturing directly from my xbox, and see if that makes any difference (I had thought of that, but don't think I have tried it yet). Just to clarify the video signal, it is RGBS through an RGB->S-video/RCA converter. I am using only the S-video out from this converter. This was the only solution I could come up with for my particular setup...and trust me, I have dedicated way too many hours of thought/research just getting it to this point.

:edit: Here is the converter: http://cgi.ebay.com/Arcade-RGB-CGA-to-Video-Converter-Cherry-Master-Video_W0QQitemZ627...QQcmdZViewItem

I did apply the recommendations from the sticky, with the same results.

I will try a) capturing directly from xbox, and b) de-clocking my CPU, and post back results. Thanks again, one and all, for the input. It is greatly appreciated...and hopefully will lead to a resolution.

[FulciLives]

If you want to capture to DV AVI format then use (in no particular order) ...

1.) Canopus ADVC-100 (replaced by the 110 but still popular on eBay etc.)
2.) Canopus ADVC-110 (new model that replaces the 100)
3.) DataVideo DAC-100 (an almost identical clone to the Canopus ADVC-100)

If you want to capture direct to MPEG-1/MPEG-2 formats then use (in no particular order) ...

1.) Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 (Internal PCI)
2.) Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 (Internal PCI)
3.) Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 (External USB 2.0 device)
4.) ADS Instant TV Deluxe PCI
5.) ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB (External USB 2.0 device)

I should mention that some people are fond of the ATI AIW line of capture cards. These cards are unique in that they function as the computer's main video/graphics card but also can do A/V capture. They have the ability to do AVI (such as uncompressed or using a compression codec such as HuffyUV or PICVideo MJPEG) as well as being able to do MPEG-1/MPEG-2 capture. While a popular solution it is the one listed here that can suffer from A/V sync depending on the system and how well it is set up etc. also sometimes the lack of or introduction of A/V sync boils down to "voodoo" in that some people have it and some don't ... just depends on how much your computer "likes" the ATI AIW card. I for one are not too keen on them but they are popular so that's why I mentioned it.

When it comes to DV AVI capture the most popular capture application with seemingly the least trouble is ScenalyzerLive. Most of the time you will want to capture DV AVI TYPE 2 instead of DV AVI TYPE 1.

For the MPEG capture cards you generally would use the provided software for capturing (although some work with 3rd pary applications) but direct-to-MPEG capture can sometimes lead to A/V sync afterwards when you go to manipulate the file (such as demuxing the A/V or editing the file or at the DVD authoring stage). To avoid A/V sync issues with captured MPEG files I highly suggest using VideoReDo Plus and it's function called "QuickStream Fix" which will correct any potential loss of A/V sync when manipulating the file. It is almost an essential program even if you only use it for that single function. It is also a very good MPEG editor as well.

Please note the DV AVI capture devices do not have RF cable inputs. If you want to use it for cable/satellite TV capture you will have to use a tuner. A second cable/satellite box works well and ScenalyzerLive does offer built-in programming for unattended captures. You will have to program the cable/satellite box manually to come on and off accordingly for your captures.

All the MPEG capture devices listed have RF inputs or you can do what I said above. All come with software for unattended captures.

With DV AVI you will have to convert all your captures to MPEG-2 DVD spec using computer software. This can take a lot of time but has the potential for great quality.

With MPEG capture you can capture direct to MPEG-2 DVD spec OR you can capture to a high bitrate (least compression) MPEG-2 then later re-encode with computer software to MPEG-2 DVD spec. If you decided on the later then know that these devices can handle a CBR of 15,000kbps with a MAX of 384kbps MP2 audio. Makes a nice master for re-encoding but usually you would only do this if you need to use software filters to clean up the capture (like from a poor quality VHS video). Otherwise you would want to capture direct to MPEG-2 DVD spec so that a re-encode is not needed.

Hope this helps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Nelson37]

Fascinating. What was different on the 20-minute no-audio capture? Seems you have a fairly large number of attempts, nothing over 3 to 5 minutes, except this one instance with no audio. This would seem to be significant. What changed on the subsequent no-audio failures? Reboot, cables connected, PC hot, or cold, did you disable the card itself? Many audio cards have an unstable or inaccurate timing chip, often causes similar problems.

What compression codec are you using, what are some of your filesizes, with time of capture?

Xbox not a standard source, can you test with a standard DVD player? Pretty sure the Fly card does not have a problem with Macrovision, DVD thru normal player gives a standard, repeatable source. Splitters, converters, etc can really raise hell with the video signal, and most especially in relation to an analog to digital conversion. First goal is get it to work, then move toward working with desired source. You currently have too many possibile sources of video or timing corruption.

Note on the ATI cards - 3 different AIW cards, thru 5 or more different Mobos, both Intel and AMD, sources from DVD thru VHS, Camcorder, Analog cable, Digital cable, Satellite, have convinced me there is no inherent de-synch problem with these cards. Rather, it is in the post-processing and/or software playback that these issues are introduced, and/or falsely displayed. Plus they are relatively inexpensive, versatile, and up to a point improve as your processor improves.

[FulciLives]

Note on the ATI cards - 3 different AIW cards, thru 5 or more different Mobos, both Intel and AMD, sources from DVD thru VHS, Camcorder, Analog cable, Digital cable, Satellite, have convinced me there is no inherent de-synch problem with these cards. Rather, it is in the post-processing and/or software playback that these issues are introduced, and/or falsely displayed. Plus they are relatively inexpensive, versatile, and up to a point improve as your processor improves.

As I understand it ... most if not all of the ATI AIW cards ... use the computer's sound chip/card for audio capture.

Whenever that is the case there exists the chance for A/V sync issues.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[NoAffinity]

Well, Nelson37, you've hit the nail on the head here. I thought back to what exactly it was I did, and realized that that one good capture I got was after re-installing XP, and the only device loaded was teh FlyTV card. I hadn't even installed my Audigy 2 ZS yet. Sooo, I killed all sound devices and started with pure video cap through the FlyTV card, using its software...and you guessed it, no probs whatsoever. So, then I tried the other software I have capable of capturing video, and no dropped frames or hang-ups whatsoever. So, then I do the same with the Plextor device. It started dropping frames straight out the gate, in Real Alternative, but a reboot resolved that. I tested all software on both devices, with no hiccups whatsoever....anywhere from 5-10 minutes per shot.

So, then I moved on to attempting to get audio working as well. All Windows sound settings were already muted. I hooked up the RCA cables to the Plextor device, and have attempted every which way possible to get sound, but to no avail. I have tried with all sound muted, with all sound full blast, various different settings (as they apply to the Plextor's sound) within all of the software programs, and while I'm still getting great video, no sound is being captured. So if anyone knows exactly which settings need to be tweaked in general, within Windows' sound properties, when a capture device has audio capabilities as well as video, please offer some advice.

As of right now, I'm tired, and don't feel like messing with it any more tonight...but I will have another go at it tomorrow, and post up results. Again, I thank everyone for their input so far. Great post and info there, FulciLives, and I will keep this thread bookmarked for future reference (as I'm sure I will eventually want to upgrade my hardware...once I've figured out how to use it and gotten bored of it ).

BTW, I did de-clock my CPU as well...and while I don't think that is what made the difference, I will try it at its previous speed once I've (hopefully) gotten everything working successfully.

[NoAffinity]

Well, I have tested about as much as I think possible, with these two devices, and no matter what I do, I cannot get audio through either of them. Video is still great, with no dropped frames or anything, but audio just doesn't come through. When getting video from the Plextor device, I have set Windows' default recording devices to it as well, have attempted every imagineable variation of audio settings within each software program I have, have tried with devices muted and at full blast, within Windows' sound properties, and nothing is working. If I'm recalling correctly, this is what prompted me to start get audio and video from different devices..and at this point, I'm assuming this is what lead to the capturing problems which lead me to start this thread.

With the Lifeview card, only its supporting software even offers any sort of recognition that it has audio properties, and here again, I have tried every imagineable configuration to no avail.

So, I'm sending the Plextor device back on RMA today (having already dealt with customer service over a week ago...prior to posting here), and strongly considering some of the above recommendations. I was hoping to not spend any more money, and get the things I already have working at least somewhat successfully, but hey, what can you do. Unless anyone has any other suggestions, then I guess it's time to check the ol' savings account to see if it will allow a new purchase.

Thanks again, one and all, for the input. Even tho success was not achieved with either of these devices, it has been a good learning experience, and the information herein has been extremely useful. I will post up once I've made a new purchase and (hopefully) taken the ol' bull by the horns and humped it into submission.

[Nelson37]

Well, now, hold on just a minute.

You were at one time capturing BOTH audio and video, with each of these devices. This proves beyond any doubt that both are capable of audio and video capture.

Then you messed with it. I do not know what you have done, and this is where it gets frustrating doing this remotely. But this issue is Definitely solvable.

The frame droppage is another issue, much more intricate to solve as there are so many possible issues. Actually, what you had originally was a complete stoppage of video cap, rather than a frame drop issue. Again, many possibilities but my guess would be this too is solvable.

Isolate and Identify. One step at a time, get one thing working, test repeatedly to make sure any success is not a fluke, and make SINGLE, Incremental changes to go to the next step.

Recommended first step would be to start with a standard, repeatable source such as the DVD player. Get both audio and video to display on the PC, then start with capture.

[NoAffinity]

I did just that, earlier today. There was a step which I was overlooking for the FlyTV card (which I just found in the manual I d/l'ed...I never received a manual with the card), and that was that a 1/8" to 1/8" audio cable has to be hooked up between the FlyTV audio out and my Audigy 2 ZS line in. Go figure. Once I did that, figured out how to get Windows to like that scheme, I was capping flawlessly. Not the greatest quality or most fluid video, mind you, but capping in sync at least. The Plextor was still not getting any audio, so I took it to work to use it on my work PC (it's a small company, and the boss is at a trade show all week...), with a DVD player. I stayed persistent with it, and figured out that there's a little setting known as "USB crossbar", which has to be tweaked in any program other than InterVideo WinDVD Creator (which comes with it). Any other programs detects the video in and out properly, but not the audio. It detects the audio out, but does not pin it to the audio in. There's another option in that menu as well, to the effect of "link similar streams", which checking or unchecking doesn't seem to make a difference. But nonetheless, I had to manually link the audio in and audio out for the device, and voila, I'm getting sound in VirtualDub and Real Alternative. Once I got that working, then it was trial and error with compression, and the best I've been able to get is uncompressed video w/ AC-3 MP3 audio @ 44100khz/192kbps. I've been capping for about 20 minutes now, and have dropped a single frame. I did already order the Happauge WinTVR USB2, as the quality of the image on either device just isn't extremely impressive, regardless of what software, colorspace and compression I'm using. The Happauge should be here before the weekend, if Newegg pulls through for me like it usually does.

[FulciLives]

For info and forums dedicated to Hauppauge WinTV PVR cards/devices check out the following website:

http://www.shspvr.com/

It is a great resource and often they have access to special stuff you can't even get direct from Hauppauge such as tweaked/updated drivers.

Good luck with the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dadrab]

This is, quite possibly, the most helpful thread I read on this forum.

Thanks to all contributors.

[NoAffinity]

^Good to hear it's helpful, dadrab.

Just a quick update: I received the WinTV-PVR USB2 yesterday...and all I can say is 'wow'. After these previous experiences, I am just flabbergasted at how seemless the installation, setup and useage is. I haven't had a chance to do to much capping with it yet, but the few initial caps I got were just awesome (using the WinTV 2000 12mb/s setting). I have also been unable to use it with any program other than what's provided. MainConcept's H.264 Encoder software reports that the device is in use by another program (even after a reboot, and going straight to the MainConcept program). Real Alt and VirtualDub allow me to choose the device, set all my settings and what not, but when I start capping, either one gets about 10kb then quits the cap. This is something else I'll have to mess with, and just may not be able to use any 3rd party apps with this piece of hardware...but I'm okay with that. If anybody has any info on this, please share.

[FulciLives]

^Good to hear it's helpful, dadrab.

Just a quick update: I received the WinTV-PVR USB2 yesterday...and all I can say is 'wow'. After these previous experiences, I am just flabbergasted at how seemless the installation, setup and useage is. I haven't had a chance to do to much capping with it yet, but the few initial caps I got were just awesome (using the WinTV 2000 12mb/s setting). I have also been unable to use it with any program other than what's provided. MainConcept's H.264 Encoder software reports that the device is in use by another program (even after a reboot, and going straight to the MainConcept program). Real Alt and VirtualDub allow me to choose the device, set all my settings and what not, but when I start capping, either one gets about 10kb then quits the cap. This is something else I'll have to mess with, and just may not be able to use any 3rd party apps with this piece of hardware...but I'm okay with that. If anybody has any info on this, please share.

It does MPEG in hardware so yes you are limited as to what 3rd party software you can use. The included software is actually pretty good though.

However I think some 3rd party software works ... like BeyondTV and/or SageTV etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[NoAffinity]

Well, had my first session of real capture last night, and all I can say is thank you all for your help thus far. The WinTV-PVR USB2 is phenomenal!!! I got a solid 4GB's of edited content, from my friend and I playing about an hour of Street Fighter Anniversary Edition. I am simply amazed at the quality of the content. Granted, it's no high def or anything, but at 720x480, I am happy.

Videohelp.com roxxors!!!